Did I ever tell you I won second place in the science fair back in the 8th grade?
No? Well hmmm I did, Now I know why I did not win first place. One of you two or three blew me right out of the water. Color me stupid because you all lost me on this thread when you started throwing out equations of life/science. I feel like I need to go back to school. No really it has been interesting confusing but interesting. I am humbled by all your superior knowledge. And clueless as to who is right or wrong or if there is a right or wrong. Need to start reading my kids school books lol.
Any who
Chrome,
Your number one the sense of dread you acknowledge it so you feel it. Your cannot ignore it. It will not go away. You can detach from it which is not a great coping skill. Or you can change your prespective/expectations of home coming instead of focusing on what is not waitting for you focus on what is. Look forward to the meal that is waitting there for you. The wife (though not full of adoration) that is faithfully there and the little ones glee to see daddy. Look forward to the shoes coming off your feet. The chance to put on more comfortable clothes. And the simple joys of reading blues clues instead of figuring out the clashing of the worlds theory while sitting on a comfy bed vs a uncomfortable desk. IMOP focusing more on the positive of what is waiting at home instead of ignoring how you feel would be more productive. Not saying that is always going to be easy.
2. Desire- This seems well thought out. I have two questions One do you have a back up plan if you see this is not working? And two how long are you willing to wait for a positive response from your wife to decide if it is working? Maybe these are not important questions for what you C is trying to achieve. Just wondering since I see alot about boundries and time tables needing to be established. When I really started trying to mend my marriage and not cope with it I started doing things in 3 month blocks. Which is easier on my mind set. Its not a doomed forever type feeling but I have not really figured out if it is a feasible time table to really see improvement either.
I may have misunderstood what your C was saying. From what I read it was more about accept how you feel. It is not right or wrong. And though you feel this you do not have to act in line with/on those feelings. But I did not see ignore how you feel and it will change.
Take the attitude that there is no such thing as what you "should feel"
My first thoughts on how to react to this step would be to list those emotions that I am having trouble with and think of what my response should be.
If there is no way a person should feel then there is no way a response should be. That is all a part of excepting the how you do feel you have to walk away from the shoulds.
Ah just my thoughts. Sorry I could not put them into master of the universe theme for you!
Bring it on philosophical one! I can take anything you can dish out. Don't think my redirection back to relevant topics is in any way a concession on my part. I didn't consider our previous discussion over. That is unless you are willing to surrender unconditionally.
Once more into the fray. My kingdom for a horse. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark. It's d@mn late here, why am I still awake. Oh yeah, no sexual valium tonight, yet again.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Just curious about this sense of doom you experience. That sounds so much like a Pavlovian response. Where does it come from? When you came home as a kid, did you have the same anxieties on entering the house, that a fight or argument would be waiting in the wings with your dad or between your parents? I can understand that dread. But it isn’t happening now. That was in the past. Do you have the same feeling when walking into a meeting at work that you know will be contentious? If not, why the difference? Something to ponder in trying to find a way to break that conditioned response.
I suspect your neediness regarding desire is also related to issue number one. As I read your paragraph, I had the mental image of a dog that has been abused, but still comes up to its master, almost crawling, head hugging the ground, eyes flitting away waiting for a slap on the head, coming up to rub on the masters feet and hoping for any little sign of affection. Lack of affection as a child will do that. Does your wife truly understand this part of you? She is the obvious one to fill this void, but does she really understand the depth to which it exists? Does she have the capacity to fill this for you at this time, even if she wants to?
I know you have a tendency to “give gifts” in the hope of having your wife return some sign of affection. But isn’t this just another twist on the hurt dog scenario? And if your wife does not truly understand why you do this, could there be a risk that she does not return that affection, setting you up for disappointment? I guess I am wondering how much work she is doing and how informed is she of what you are doing in order to make the right mix?
Maybe someone here can suggest a good exercise to work through these issues. Lillieperl, do you have a book on training birds not to sh*t?
Quote: Just curious about this sense of doom you experience. That sounds so much like a Pavlovian response. Where does it come from? When you came home as a kid, did you have the same anxieties on entering the house, that a fight or argument would be waiting in the wings with your dad or between your parents? I can understand that dread. But it isn’t happening now.
I used to experience the same thing. The simple explanation for my response is that while I was at work I was distracted from the reality of my marriage. Driving home I would often have to fight tears, because although I could distract myself while at work, now I was going to have to face the then unhappiness that was our relationship. That yawning pit of loneliness within me would rear up larger and larger the closer I got to home along with the ingrained dread that it was never going to change.
Disconnected relationships cause anxiety. You're dealing with the fear that you're going to do something to make it worse. You have a flicker of hope on occasion that it's going to be different this time. Your heart is exposed and beating rapidly behind your protective shield longing to make a connection with your spouse. There are rushes of anger when you think this doesn't have to be so hard and waves of despondency that it is so hopeless.
So, there's a lot happening at that point to get a bit wound up about.
I am referencing Chromo’s story of the FOO-FOO bird and whether you have any advice on how to deal with his Pavlovian FOO response, some way of shedding the FOO sh*t off of him.
Chrom, One of the things my H did when I first started staying at home was to install the following rule: When he arrives home, he comes to me first. He gives me a hug and a kiss (and some fabulous eye contact--this has always been a constant despite our bedroom difficulties) and then commences the screamin mimi chaos with our little girls.
He did not wait for me to come to him...he searches me out until he finds me. Sometimes, of course, I'm off doing something and the screamin mimis get to him before I do, but he more or less shakes them off when he finds me. He even says, I have to hug mommy first, then I'll get to you guys. Now, this is not a hard and fast rule..gimme a break right..they are little ones who have a way of ruining every Tender Parental Moment. The baby just comes up and flat out pushes us apart, then raises her arms as if to say, Yo here I am..which wanna you lucky dogs is going to pick me up? lol
This might not work in your house but I don't see why not. Simply tell the kids and your wife that there's a new sheriff in town and that a smile and a kiss is what you need from each of them, upon returning from work. That's not too much to ask and it really helps set the tone for the whole evening. Something about him coming to me first makes it special and our girls see it, too. If this magnificent Hero Guy goes to ME first, I must be pretty special.
I now believe that it's one of my H's favorite parts of his day to search me out (our home is very small, it's not hard to find me!) and get his hug and kiss. I'm sure you may have figured out that I don't mind this part one bit. I also want to add that most nights I'm right there waiting for him, as we all are, but if not, he will search me out asking the kids over and over, Where's Mom? Reconnecting with me is the first thing on his to-do list upon arriving home. We both make it a priority. It lasts but a brief few seconds (you know how it is with tiny kids) but that's ok.
Oh and the inspiration for this idea came from his sister who is also a sahm. She is only a year older than him, looks exactly like him, and has a good read on him. She later told me that she was afraid that he get so wrapped up in our children that he would forget he was a husband first. Which is precisely what he did. She saw that one coming a mile away! He was so besotted with our first daughter that I suppose it was easy for others to see...I didn't see it right away cause I was just as besotted as he.
Anyway, he's done that every night for the past 6 years and it really helps.
Chrome: Do what honey says. Make your homecoming special. My bf used to always greet the dog first before me, getting down on the floor and hugging and kissing him. I told him it hurt my feelings. So now he says to Buddy, "I have to kiss Mommy first," and he does. I promise I'm not making this up.
I can relate to that, it would make you feel ignored or discounted. My H did something similar the other night that really hurt my feelings....along the discounted/ignored lines.
I was working on a Christmas gift for his parents, had been most of the evening. He had been in the same room watching some tv and we had been talking. He went out of the room for a bit, I thought he was coming back....30 minutes later I got up to go get a drink and noticed he's not in the room with me, he's not on the computer....and our room was dark. He had gone to bed without a word to me. No goodnight, not an "I'm tired"....nothing. We always go to bed at the same time, always....and he just went to bed without a word to me. Sounds childish probably but that really hurt my feelings.
"No really it has been interesting confusing but interesting. I am humbled by all your superior knowledge. And clueless as to who is right or wrong or if there is a right or wrong. Need to start reading my kids school books lol."
Well, then I have not done a very good job explaining myself. I'll admit that for the sake of brevity I probably have taken explanation short-cuts. It has always been my philosophy as a teacher that if I can't explain something to ANYBODY, then I don't truly understand it. If there is any specific thing that is confusing, please let me know and I'll try to do a better job. Not dumb it down (I hate it when people ask me to do that), just find a better way to explain it given the person's past experiences, kwim? "Easier" explanations to understand are often much more complex at their root, and can sometimes miss the point due to excessive reductionism.
Oh, and there isn't a right or wrong side between me, Corri, and Z-bube. We are debating "frontier science" which by necessity will have many questions and debatable points. In fact, the stuff that doesn't is actually pretty boring (i.e. Newtonian mechanics, F = ma and all that).
"Your number one the sense of dread you acknowledge it so you feel it. Your cannot ignore it. It will not go away. You can detach from it which is not a great coping skill. Or you can change your prespective/expectations of home coming instead of focusing on what is not waitting for you focus on what is."
I see what you are saying Chrissy, and I try to make that fine distinction between ignoring and redirecting. I do agree with my coach that defeating gloom is a case of "not feeding the monster." If you sit there and dwell on the gloom, it just gets worse and worse. If you don't dwell on it, it will go away. kwim?
"And the simple joys of reading blues clues instead of figuring out the clashing of the worlds theory while sitting on a comfy bed vs a uncomfortable desk."
Good one! Although one version of heaven to me is a room full of science books on topics I haven't read yet, or a person to discuss controversial topics with (notice I didn't say debate). Yes, I am a serious nerd.
"IMOP focusing more on the positive of what is waiting at home instead of ignoring how you feel would be more productive."
Right. That is what I meant by distracting myself. I am not pushing the gloom to some inner part of myself where it will bite me later, I am just actively choosing not to dwell on it.
"One do you have a back up plan if you see this is not working? And two how long are you willing to wait for a positive response from your wife to decide if it is working? Maybe these are not important questions for what you C is trying to achieve. Just wondering since I see alot about boundries and time tables needing to be established."
Unfortunately no I don't, and this is a great source of dissatisfaction right now. We don't have any time tables for the return of affection or sex or vacationing together, etc. Our C just made some vague suggestion that we should start thinking about making plans, which gave my W enough room to wiggle out of doing anything concrete. I'm ok with it though, for now. I can't say how long I will be willing to wait. I guess a really long time though, because I want my M to work. I will say though I will change tactics if necessary. 3 month blocks may be a good start though, I'll think about it.
"If there is no way a person should feel then there is no way a response should be. That is all a part of excepting the how you do feel you have to walk away from the shoulds."
Well, I think I am adopting more of a "let's try this response to that emotion and see how it works" approach. You are right, there is not a way you SHOULD respond to an emotion. Sometimes it is obvious, but often it isn't. I think that is one of the problems with R books. They tend to adopt a "you should respond this way" approach, which may work for some people, but not all.
"Ah just my thoughts. Sorry I could not put them into master of the universe theme for you!"
I'm glad you put your thoughts here. All you had to do was yell "I have the power!" in your best Dolph Lundgren voice and you would have covered the Masters of the Universe/He-man thing very well.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
All you had to do was yell "I have the power!" in your best Dolph Lundgren voice and you would have covered the Masters of the Universe/He-man thing very well.