Bud! You are not full of bad advice (insert woman with smoke coming out of her ears!)!
You've given me some.. well most of the good advice I've received so far in my sitch. Partly because you're one of the few who takes the time to reply, but mostly because you have a wealth of knowledge and are kind enough to share it!
And yeah, I think you're right in this case too. I'll be ready to go, but unless H makes much of a deal or actually asks me to go, I'll stay here - without guilt
Whatever it is you're drinking.. send me the bill.
FWIW, I would vote on going - even if you only go for your H and your children. And only if you can resolve to go and relax, and not to stress if they aren't welcoming to you. So that's what I would do...but hey, I've been known to be wrong and to go a bit too far in accomodating others!
But either way, I think you've explained yourself well and you deserve to have a wonderful holiday!
Thanks for the advice VJ! I admire the way you handle things.. and I'm leaning towards going at this point. You're right, I could be there for H and the kids. I've pretended for years, what's another one? Except H has opened a can of worms with his parents this year.. and I've tried to stay out of it but be supportive. Maybe this is another way to just be supportive of how he wants to handle his R with them. Me and S19 basically take the attitude that we can take them or leave them, but H and D11 have both been very angry at H's parents the last 6 months and it's kept us from attending some family functions I personally think we should have attended (for the kids).
Why he want to share Christmas I dont know.. and it's confusing for us until he either sorts things out with his family or decides not to see them anymore. We don't know if he likes them today or is angry.. it's hard. His psych told him he needs to make a decision. Maybe today will help him do that.
I hope you have a wonderful Christmas VJ!!! Enjoy the kids and do a lot of laughing!
Well, I'm not saying I'm always full of bad advice. But I am right now. I am quite full of the KMAs; my little present to everyone who's pi$$ed me off this year!
I'm ready for Festivus. We'll get the Feats of Strength out of the way, then it'll be time for the Airing of Grievances...
I should also add that things are going well at home between W and me. The kids seem to be channeling the Grinch, however. They're getting to open some presents early because they're going to be gone next week, but the more presents they open the crabbier they get. They're about to find I've got a solution for that problem.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Thanks for the advice Bud and VJ. I did end up going to my in-laws. I could tell by what H said that he was expecting me to go, so I did.
Didn't go too bad. His parents acted very pleasant and I could tell they were trying. His Mom actually relaxed and talked awhile with me. Pretty much like past Christmases, but no tension (maybe because we said what needed to be said). Kids had a great time, so I'm glad I went. Time will tell if that R improves or stays the same. But like I said earlier.. it's not a biggie to me as long as H and the kids are happy. D11 has had her feelings hurt a lot by H's parents the last 10 months and she was worried about going. She doesnt know how to act. She wants to love them like she loves everyone else, but they are receptive to that. So, I told her that she doesn't have to be lovey with them unless she wants to and if she wants to, it's their problem how they take it. She decided to just play with her cousins and be happy and that's what she did. DB at work? hehe Maybe, there were hugs and kisses before we left and she seemed happy.
Gloomy, but fun day here. The boys haven't had a chance to get their riding toys or new bicycles out. They haven't missed a beat playing inside though! Crazy making here!
S19 and I are coming down with a something we hope isnt the flu. We're both achy and getting hoarse, but feel alright otherwise. Everyone is quiet now, napping or watching TV and wow.. it's nice. Just to have our family together after not think we would be this year. H hasnt been taking his anti-depressants the last few days. He's been irritable and trying to manage, but I can tell he's struggling. It's strange though how open the kids are about it. He snapped at S5 about something while we were getting ready to eat and D11 said "someone didnt take their medicine today!" S19 said, "you can tell too?" and H said "Yeah, yeah, I know. Everyone else can be a smarta*ss and get away with it, but if I have a moment, it's because of my medicine!" So, he thinks we're picking on him too so I'm trying really really hard not to say anything and to be supportive. H is managing, I just hope he gets back on his meds because it's nice when he doesn't have to try so hard and can relax and enjoy our time together.
I've been awake since H left for work at 3:00. Today would be our 18th anniversary. We haven't celebrated it since we D 5 years ago. I'm not sure if he even remembers! I don't know whether I should mention it or do something special today or not. If I do, it might just make him feel bad. I was thinking of asking him to go to dinner tonight without mentioning our anniversary at all. We haven't had a *date* in a few months now. He's said a few times that we need some time alone together, but hasn't pursued that himself. I'm having a hard time knowing what I should do or not do. Dropping the rope seems to have helped him to relax and focus on some things, but it's also just meant that some things are not getting done for us. Like time alone away from the kids. We seem to be drifting back into being parents and roommates. The difference is that H is being more loving and caring than he was.
Our physical R is still not going well at all. I've tried not to pursue that too hard, but have done a few things to encourage it. I think we've only ML twice this month. We've tried a few times in the last week, but H couldnt follow through The first time was me initiating and the next two times he did. The last time he asked if he could help me to relax and sleep, so I said sure! It ended up with him wanting to ML, but still he couldnt. I don't know if this is still a side effect from his meds, or if it's in his mind. He said things are just not working like they should and he doesnt know if it's physical or just because of all that's happened between us and he's pressuring himself.
Other than that, he's been loving and caring. He didnt take his meds for a few days, but started back up again yesterday. He's been hugging and kissing me more lately.. just walking up and doing it. I'm so confused about whether I should be affectionate with him, or let him come to me. If I pursue I'm afraid he'll feel pressure, but if I don't I'm afraid he'll think I don't care. I've had a little cold since Christmas day. Last night before he went to bed he gave me a hug and kiss and said that he wants to ML as soon as I feel better. I said "sounds good to me!" Im so afraid though that he won't be able to and it'll just be harder the next time. I've kept my mouth shut (believe it or not!) on what I think he should do. I think he should go back to our Dr, and his psych. He hasn't seen either of them in a month I think. Our Christian counselor can't see him again until Feb. So, things are just basically on hold. He hasnt picked up any of the bible studies that the C suggested to work on in the meantime either.
Waiting for him to do "something" is sooo hard! He did tell me the other night that he knows he's not doing things as fast as I'd like him to. I haven't said that, but I guess he knows me too well. He did say though that he's concentrating on stopping the things that tore our R apart - like lying, writing my checks, hiding things, being irritable and impatient and disregarding my feelings. I think he's doing pretty good at that. S19 is home from college and I've noticed a change in his attitude there. He hasn't commented or said much to S19 when he's done things that H doesnt agree with - like stay out until 2AM when he knows we'd like him to get in earlier. He's mentioned it to me, but not to S19. He also hasnt been as demanding of his time like he has in the past, and surprisingly, S19 has spent more time with us than we expected.
H still hasnt found a new job. He's talking to a couple of places, but nothing definate yet. I know this is stressing him out. He starts a crazy work schedule the 8th of Jan that will keep us from spending much time together. He wont get home until after the kids are in bed and his weekend will be Tues and Weds. I also wonder if that's one of the reasons he can't ML right now. I don't like it that he still works with OW. I havent said a word AT ALL.. not one little peep. Even when he was so mad about the schedule change I was supportive and told him to hang in there things will work out. Wanting him to have another job is now becoming something I want for him more than me wanting him to be away from OW. He gets little sleep, hates his job, and now is worrying about not being here with us in the evenings. Something has got to give!
The New Year is coming and I asked H and D11 last night if they have any resolutions. H said that his were to be a better H and Father. I said that I'd like to get in better shape and lose the last 10-20 lbs that are hanging on. I also said that I want to quit smoking and have four of my teeth capped...just a cosmetic thing that I've thought would be too vain to spend money on. I need to quit smoking first! I had quit but picked it up again the very day I found out about OW.. arghhh! I asked H if my resolutions were selfish because they weren't about us. He said they werent and that he wants to lose weight too. He's put on ..hmm... I'd say 20-30 pounds the last few months. I know he's self concious about it. The weight gain is a side effect of one of his meds that made him hungry all the time. I've encouraged him to watch what he eats and go to the gym, but have stopped saying anything because I don't want him to think I find him less attractive. I don't at all, but I hate seeing him self conscious about his weight.
I need to make some DB resolutions. I'm still thinking about what the best thing is for me to do right now. Things are peaceful here, and I fear going back to the same old routine, but I know we can't work things out when it's tense and stressful either. H is still talking about making changes so as long as I know that's on his radar I'm going to keep dropping the rope, being supportive and understanding. We still aren't back to being close and like a couple yet.. it's frustrating, but I know that I can't fall back into things until we work out our differences in a real way. That leaves me feeling like we're roommates and co-parents, but I'm hoping in time we can get closer as a couple too.
So.. what to do today? I'd love for us to go to dinner tonight, but I know he's been tired. I'm afraid it will put expectations on him physically too. I know he has so much on his mind right now. Maybe a night out will do him good though. I guess he could come home and nap before we go out. Hmmm.. maybe a nice back rub (that's all!) a nap and dinner at his favorite restaurant.
Yesterday me and the kids took down the Chrismas decorations and got the house back in order. It's a chore that H detests, so I thought I'd just get it over with before he's off Thurs and tries to do it himself. One of his emotional needs is domestic support. He loves it when he comes home to a clean house. I've dropped the rope on that a little because I've felt in the past that he's expected too much in that area and made me feel guilty when things aren't perfectly in order. Dropping the rope, he's started doing more of that himself. Which is good, but it's not one of my emotional needs. He puts his energy to this and then says I don't see that he's trying to take care of me! So I thought, if I pick that back up, maybe he'll direct his efforts to something that is an emotional need. Like Quality Time. He says that all the time we spend maintaining the house and raising the kids is leaving no time for us. He's right, but that's the way it is when you choose to parent 4 children! It's not insurmountable. So, that brings about a couple of goals for me.
1. Pick up taking very good care of the household responsibilities. I used to have it down to a science. If anyone else is having a prob in this area, check out the flylady website. Within a month of following it, I could get all the chores done around here without taking much time away from H and the kids at all. I'd like H to be available to relax with me and the kids in the evening instead of immersing himself doing chores. Maybe he'll start doing his bible studies again or want to work through the exercises the MC gave us. He uses this as an excuse, so if I can get our evening routine down to a science again and the kids in bed on time that will leave a bit of time for us to spend together.
Just a side note. Our family doctor told us that the thing our partner needs from us will often be the hardest thing for us to give. I'm definately seeing that. H needs for our house to be in perfect order. I just need it to be clean. I've always resented that he's held me to such a high standard when I work full time and we have kids. I prefer the house to be clean and think that's good enough.. it's certainly cleaner than most and to put that to a higher level is silly to me. But, this is definately one of his needs.. if I don't do it, he'll take time away from us to do it himself. arggh, it's so hard for me to justify putting extra energy into this. Knowing that, I can kind of see why H struggles with my needs, maybe he thinks putting extra energy into communicating and showing affection is silly because he's satisfied with how we communicate and show affection.
2. Plan some QT for us. It's one of my needs, but it's also one of his. I've thought it isnt because he doesn't "do" anything to make it happen, but him saying "we need some time alone" several times must be because he wants and needs it surely? I guess I need to accept that him wanting to spent QT with me is enough, and maybe over time and with some suggestions I can get him involved in planning it. Again though.. this is part of domestic support maybe because it involves setting up child care so we can get away.
3. Affection: This is a biggie for me. H says he wants to take care of this need, but is tired and doesnt have time alone with me. He also says that I don't approach him for affection. He's right. I rarely do anymore because I'm afraid of being rejected. I'm going to start being more affectionate with him and see what happens. It's difficult because for him ML often follows affection and that's not working for us right now. We talked (and argued) a bit about this last night. He wants to keep trying to ML, but until he finds out what the prob is, I'm uncomfortable going there. It turns into a negative sitch when he can't perform and hurts his feelings and mine. I'd like for us to be affectionate without worrying about ML. And that will be as hard for me as it is for him. Im HD and not ML is frustrating the h*ll out of me right now, but if it can't be a positive thing, then why do it?
H wants to have an R discussion tonight. Every time we talk it ends badly. I'm not blaming him for this because alot of it is me and my attitude. I'm tired of talking and getting nowhere. He says that's because I refuse to admit he's making positive changes and just want to see what's not happening for us right now. That's probably true. I need to approach our discussions from a different perspective maybe. Not as a way to get what I need, but as a way to learn to communicate better with H. I also told him that us talking and me telling him what I need makes him feel like I'm controlling. Maybe I just need to be there and listen and validate what he says and recognize the positives he's making. If we can start communicating again that will help more than anything. He said he wants to talk about where we're going and what we're going to do. Maybe I'll get some insight into what he's thinking and is trying to do.
I need to get my heart back into this process. I've detached to a point where I'm kind of numb about our R. We don't talk or touch much and that leaves me feeling lonely. H can't understand how I feel. He says we're together all the time, how could I be lonely? I miss the connection we used to have. I'm afraid to have that connection again because talking to me and touching me are the first things he stops doing when things get tough. It makes me feel rejected when he isnt there to talk to me or hold me. It's like he'll put a lot of energy into it for awhile and when he sees I'm happy with our R and things are going good, he stops. And to me, I can't see the point in being in a R if you don't talk, spend time alone and touch. His definition of a R is different then mine. If he's working, the kids are happy, the house is running smoothly, then he's doing great. I've always thought he could hire a housekeeper and be the happiest man on earth. That's the way his parents R works, so maybe that's the life he's trying to achieve here. I do know though if I have to go back to busting my butt to keep things in order and we get back into the same cycle of not talking or spending time alone and ML once a month, I'll go nuts. So, I'll try to talk and be open to being affectionate because that's what I need and maybe it'll last.
Hi Sheila - I hear you about the housework. Like you, my approach used to be cleand is good enough. Lately though, after following a de-cluttering Feng Shui regime, I find myself more sensitive to even a small thing being out of place.
We managed to re-arrange our spending a little and splash out on more hours of domestic help. The house is fantastically clean AND tidy. Just wondering if that is an option for you?
Wishing you luck with the dreaded R talk tonite. Hugs, Slowly
The first time was me initiating and the next two times he did. The last time he asked if he could help me to relax and sleep, so I said sure! It ended up with him wanting to ML, but still he couldnt. I don't know if this is still a side effect from his meds, or if it's in his mind. He said things are just not working like they should and he doesnt know if it's physical or just because of all that's happened between us and he's pressuring himself. 