I have spent the last two years reading all the books, differentiating, losing my anger, doing more about the house, disclosing my inner feelings and desires, giving her quality time and presents and hopefully becoming a better and more fanciable person but just how far does a guy have to go down this change route?
Maybe your wife will not agree to go until you make some sort of ultimatum. The risk is that she says ok, let’s split. So before going that far, I’d try to push her out of her comfort zone. You probably know better than I how to avoid the arguing, control the anger, present the likeable person, etc. But maybe you need stronger boundaries too, a sort of carrot (being attractive) and stick (setting strong boundaries) approach. Would some of Blackfoot’s philosophy apply?
If I persuaded her to see a councillor I wouldn't be surprised if when the councillor heard her story (ie not fancying me, continually rejecting me etc. etc.) he/she would tell her to kick me out, sue for the house the kids and half my income.
Why would any counselor advise your wife to kick you out if you’ve made all the positive changes you say you’ve made? What in the world would your wife be saying to the counselor to warrant such a response? Is there something you’re not telling us? This doesn’t make sense to me.
The times I saw the councillor on my own (because W didn't show up) she told me to find someone else because you only live once.
If the counselor simply says you should leave the relationship, it tells me one of two things – 1) either the counselor is an idiot (very possible) or 2) s/he is trying to “bait” you. This is similar to making an ultimatum, except they do it for you. When you realize you really don’t want to divorce, then you start to diligently address the issues. I think this is an old counselor tactic to stop the denials and dodging of issues. So if it is 1), challenge the counselor (and ask for your money back). If it is 2), challenge yourself.
I know finding a good counselor is not easy, and there is probably good reason the newspaper article said counseling makes matters worse. Possibly you had one of those counselors. I think that is where this board can help, along with your own reading, to verify what your counselor is saying. The feedback here also gives you ideas for the next counseling session, like GEL is doing.
My UK friends tell me that finding a pro-marriage counselor in the UK is nearly impossible.
It is my understanding that most are trained to aid in a peaceful dissolution of the relationship.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I go along with this view Cobra. NOP is right. Marriage is not valued over here as it was in the past. The words "Husband" and "Wife" have been politically correctly eliminated and we now have to use "Partner". All tax breaks have been removed from married couples and you are financially better off being unmarried particularly if you have children. I got the distinct impression that the councillor I saw (from "Relate" which is a big government backed agency) was mainly used to dealing with separation issues rather than DBing. A few years ago I wrote to Anna Raeburn, a newspaper relationship expert and was shocked when she told me my marriage was far from normal and to cut and run because "You only live once". SD
I was thinking along the lines that your wife has intimacy issues stemming from her past that are blocking her feelings toward you. I am suspicious that if she can work through those FOO issues, she will be more receptive to your improved demeanor and DB techniques.
So I wasn’t thinking a counselor that was promarriage was necessary. In fact, I would be tempted to direct the counselor to keep any marriage advice to himself. Just work on the intimacy issues, which are just as important whether you are married or not. Certainly you have counselors that are capable of this?
From your description, it seems the UK has had a boom in counseling business without the necessary regulation to ensure competence. (That’s one thing about the US. We like to think we are the world’s preeminent free market, but we are probably the most highly regulated economy in the world.) Surely there are older counselors in practice for years, before this boom occurred that have some semblance of qualification?
But that is my best advice. If she can’t overcome her FOO, then you do have little other choice than to live with your sitch or leave. I hate to see a split happen, since it could be prevented. Men can move mountains but they can’t get their spouse to open their eyes.
Thanks for saying hi on my thread - fellow Londoner. I have just finished reading my way through your post - phew. So many interesting contributions. OMG Dave 26 years of living with someone and now she turns round and says she hasn't really fancied you in all that time! I do think she may be rewriting history just a little bit. I also thing that having LD and feeling like you don't fancy someone can be one and the same thing. I think what she really means is she doesn't fancy IT, you are the one asking for IT all the time so you personify her lack of desire. I mean face it Dave you can fancy a frog if you're feeling hot enough - know what I mean? My H continually professes me to be gorgeous, the most fanciable woman he has ever met etc etc, I on the other hand think he's a bit of a geek (doesn't mean I don't love him though ). But HE is the one not fancying IT and I am the one hot to trot. Weird
Take care
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Hi Fran, OK so she says she doesn't fancy me - but I know different! Actually last Friday was the best for a long time with a hint of EC too (we have a Friday night schedule in case you didn't know). I have a feeling that her telling me she doesn't fancy me has got her thinking that maybe she does really. That shows the value of making personal disclosures to your partner. The person who makes the disclosure (her in this case) assumes it will have an affect on the other person but it can also have an affect on them. One big difference in our relationship is that I am not doing nearly so much needy pestering. I have got past that stuff so now she has a lot more space to express herself and she does now come to me for cuddles. I'm glad I came back here because my desire to "Move on" has faded and I can see that I have made progress. SD
). But HE is the one not fancying IT and I am the one hot to trot. Weird 