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It is nice to get a different perspective, isn't it! One can then see where the positives are. I hope the chat with your friend gave you more hope and motivation.

I found it so weird, too, that our WAS's don't see what they are doing - not only to their S's, but to the children - to the family that they helped build. They somehow find a way to justify their actions, but I believe that deep down, they know. They know that what they are doing is wrong, but they want to find a way to make it right, but it never will be. Agh! It drove me nearly nuts trying to figure it out, until I got to the place I'm in now. Peaceful detachment! Not worrying about what he may or may not be doing. If he is being unfaithful, I will find out when the time is right, and I will be able to say "adios"! And, just walk away, knowing I did all I could.

Hope you week is going well. Mine is going great!

I think I'm getting to that "comfortably numb" state too. As with any good father I don't want to see my childrens' life riddled with the effects of divorce, but some days I see the effect of what W is currently doing and wonder if it's any better. For now I have just pulled back and am just going to let this one play out as it will. Sooner or later I think W will have to either stand up and do something or be held accountable for what she is doing. As you can imagine, at that point I will just say/think, I have done what I can, but I can't answer for you.

Right now I am at peace with my efforts in this R, if this fails, she will have to answer to God. As you know she has ALOT to answer for and lame excuses won't float. I just hope that sooner more than later she catches the vision again and gets down to business.

That talk with a friend did help, he came from a divorced home and has never married. He could never seem to see the trust that was needed for a loving marriage, nor could he see positive outcomes for his friends that did marry. It's probably too late for him, however he would of been a great dad. These S that cause this problem don't see the far reaching effects of their choices. As far as I know, non of his siblings married either. Really sad.

On the positive side, the major project is moving forward and providing a much needed distraction. Alot of new faces in my life, people who need me and value my talents. This year should be a long ride, hopefully all will turn out well.

Phoenix, I won't say that I am numb - more detached, but excited about my own life, with or without H. He has come further along, I think, than your W, but still has some way to go. He is affectionate, but not very communicative. Just recently, we started ML again, which was pretty non-existent for almost a year, and I wonder if it will continue. We will see.

So, numbness is not really a good place to be. As WCW said, it could go on too long, and then you may lose yourself. I think, I have found myself, and refuse to be defined by my H's choices, moods or actions. I will live my life to the best of my God-given abilities, and skills.

Go there, Phoenix! It is a place of peace, of knowing you are living your life, but not excluding your children, or W, and still being passionate about your interests and goals. We shouldn't allow our S's to choose for us - how we should live, feel, act, or be. It is our life too!

Thinking of ya!

You definately have some good ideas and thoughts there. Perhaps what bothers me the most is being stuck in limbo land. W hasn't committed or voiced leanings either way. Then again maybe she has, just hasn't found a way to do so and come out respected by those who she does care about. This has sure been an eye openning experience in regards to seeing who truely are our friends and those who just say what they think the should say, right or wrong.

Perhaps what bothers me the most is knowing how critical a time it is for our kids and W being such a negative force in all of our lives. I guess I just have to find some way of not letting W dictate our lives. Some day she is going to have to face what she has done, I don't think she has the courage to, so I guess she will just walk. This time I hope I'm wrong, however, some days I don't care.

I know what you mean about true friends, Phoenix! I learned a lot about that, too. I discovered some truly awesome friends, and am extremely grateful to them. It really is a journey, and we just have to do the best we can, with the emotional armour that we have been given. Above all, not to let someone else, no matter how much we love them, be in control of our choices. Ultimately, you have to decide what is best for you. Staying because of the children isn't always the best choice, but one should give it everything you have before deciding to risk the split. I am one that takes risks - I believe that if you don't risk something, than you gain nothing - not even a lesson learned.

Anyway, I'm having a pretty off day to day - still strong, but finding I have to keep myself really busy to keep my mind off things I don't want to think about.

Stay well!

What you have said about choices is quite true. I have found that I am starting to take more of the view of "whatever I do is usually wrong, so I'll do what is right and makes me happy". I do sacrafice for that which I love and appreciate, but no longer at such cost as before. Also my trust of people in general, close and distant is guarded now. When even the person who is suppose to be your main support is no longer trustworthy, you start to question all relationships.

One of the things that I use to love about W was that I could sit and discuss anything with her, it will be awhile before that happens, from both sides of the coin. The funny part is I see her lapsing back into that mode and then kind of catching herself. This happens more often. I guess the question is when will she admit to herself that the best place for us is with each other.

We'll I should call it a night, excuse the ramblings.

That is so true, Phoenix. I used to be able to talk to my H about anything, but he betrayed that trust, and repeated my words to OW. It's going to be a long time before I can trust him again. A very long time. I still have to force myself to confide in him about anything. I keep thinking he will repeat it to someone else. It's an awful feeling, that I have not yet been able to tell him about. I hold most things inside now, and just vent on the bb, or to very trustworthy friends.

Phoenix! How are ya doing? Been thinking about you, and hoping there were some improvements this last weekend! General Conference next week, and I am looking forward to hearing what we will learn about family, and keeping our M's. I remember, the P had a lot to say about that in 2004. It gave me a lot of motivation to keep trying at that time. Check out "The Women in Our Lives", Ensign November 2004. Of course, what the P says, applies to the men in our lives too. For the benefit of some on the bb, here is a part of that address, which really stuck out, for me:

"The cure for most marital troubles does not lie in divorce. It lies in repentance and forgiveness, in expressions of kindness and concern. It is to be found in application of the Golden Rule.

It is a scene of great beauty when a young man and a young woman join hands at the altar in a covenant before God that they will honor and love one another. Then how dismal the picture when a few months later, or a few years later, there are offensive remarks, mean and cutting words, raised voices, bitter accusations.

It need not be, my dear brothers and sisters. We can rise above these mean and beggarly elements in our lives (see Gal. 4:9). We can look for and recognize the divine nature in one another, which comes to us as children of our Father in Heaven. We can live together in the God-given pattern of marriage in accomplishing that of which we are capable if we will exercise discipline of self and refrain from trying to discipline our companion.

The women in our lives are creatures endowed with particular qualities, divine qualities, which cause them to reach out in kindness and with love to those about them. We can encourage that outreach if we will give them opportunity to give expression to the talents and impulses that lie within them. In our old age my beloved companion said to me quietly one evening, “You have always given me wings to fly, and I have loved you for it.”"

Stay positive! Pray, pray, pray, and fasting might not be a bad thing to do, either.

As always, wishing you the best, Phoenix!

Yes, there was, but trying to figure out what caused it and what I should do to continue this trend. I certainly will check out the rest of that article. There's an amazing amount of things to learn just from what you posted. Some hits close to home. Perhaps on a side e-mail I'll get your input into what happened.

Like yourself I am getting to be a little more at peace of what I have chosen to become and to let the rest fall in the Lord's hands, moving forward on his time. I'm sure I have mentioned this before, but perhaps the next book other then DB/DR that has set the tone for me the last couple of years is "The Peacegiver". It follows along the same path as what you have just given, mainly forgiveness, releasing of hard feelings and recognizing the divine nature of the people we are married to. As you know it is hard to think of that when they have wronged you, but it's the only way you will get out of this and feel at peace with yourself and God.

I'll drop you a line, please look for it.