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Yes, I've tried a few things, however like in your sitch they might go, but they don't want to relinquish their hard stance. But I'm still swinging for the outfield.

Keep swinging! wouldn't it be nice to put a big crack in that armour?

Reality is we get tired of the game, it's hard to keep swinging. BUT, what are the alternatives? how would life change if we quit swinging? physical changes, emotional changes, life overall. Better? or worse? WE each have to answer our own questions, and take plenty of time to arrive at the answer.

Yes I do see small cracks here and there. However sometimes I wonder if it's more a matter of W not being able to maintain the "tough, don't care about you" act, or it's just a matter she feels she can out last me in limbo land and maintaining the act is tough. I think also that she can not stand up and account for her own actions, even if that means leaving me and the kids just so she can go off and do whatever she wants. In her profession, ditching the kids would not be looked upon kindly. With her family they would definately not support that move, especially with no real cause.

So I just try to be the best Dad possible and be kind and considerate to W, act as if and just let time do it's work. What concerns me the most right now is that I can see my D15 becoming more and more like W every day. Considering what W has become now, that's not a good thing. Believe me, when I see D15 picking up most of the bad stuff, I get concerned for her R later in life.

Now, what to do for V-day? I'm not quite sure what would be appropriate. I guess we'll find out.

Hi again, Phoenix! Still in limboland, 'eh! Not a nice place to be. I think worse than in my sitch. I don't intend doing anything for Valentine's or for our 20th anniversary next month. No sirree bob! This girls done with trying to win something back, that's probably been gone for too long. I have mentally set my H free, and if he finds his way back, then it was meant to be.

Have you spoken to your W about D15's demeanour? As parents, we are responsible for how we set an example, so perhaps she needs to be made aware of the effect her attitude is having on the children? Is this the legacy she would like to leave for them - a selfish, self-centred, tuned out, mother, who only thinks of her own happiness, and quick fix good feelings, and fantasy of being right? (I posed this question to my H in the beginning of all the cr#p, and he obviously said no, but it doesn't mean they can act on it). Dr. Phil's website has a lot of info on this kind of thing, and it has really made me think about how I want my kids to remember me.

Good luck, and I think of you often!

Unfortunately I'm fighting a W who is trying to be the cool hip mom. I kind of stood up to her the other night when I felt that staying up with them past 2:30 was a little excesive. No I don't think she gets the point yet, but I stated my case, what she does with it is up to her. She seems to think she has better answers to everything than those who know what their talking about. We either learn from wise people, or relive their mistakes. Why a parent would set a child up to fail is beyond me, however I have learned that parenting is a team effort, if your not on the same track your likely not going to accomplish much.

By the way, what is the link for Dr. Phil?

drphil.com

Team effort - that isn't just in parenting, it should be life in general when we are married. When only half the team is playing, it's pretty hard to win. We have to play harder to make up for the part that isn't playing.

What are the ages of kids? Is W looking at it as though they will be gone soon from the home and she is reliving youth thru them?

I am sorry to hear that your W has chosen to try and be the "cool mom". It never works well. I have posted Dr. Phil's # 7 parenting tool, and I must say that I am in total agreement with him. I hope your W wakes up before it's too late, Phoenix. A daughter needs her mother to have a cool and calm head, not a teen cool attitude. They have enough of their own friends, but only one mom.

Tool #7: Parenting By Example
The most powerful role model in any child's life is the same-sex parent. It's a fact that children learn vicariously by observing the behavior of others and noting the consequences of their actions. They watch what happens to family members when they succeed or fail and those experiences become a reference for how they live. This is known as modeling.

Through your actions, words, behavior and love, you can direct your children to where you want them to go. Show them how to be happy, well-balanced and fulfilled adults. Shed any negative attitudes. Dump self-destructive behavior patterns. Turn up the positive attitude.

I liked this article of his too - http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/169

This morning was another day of "even though Daddy is the tough one, he is also the most loving". As Dr. Phil says, your attitudes are perceived by your children. They enjoy when I tuck them in and they worry when I leave, wondering when I'll be back. Partly what makes me sad is the damage that W is doing to our kids' childhood. I look back at my childhood with good memories, following her lead the older ones especially can't seem to find much joy in anything. (Unless peers are there to share and give approval).

Today I'm a little tired of how everything has to be done to her approval and the constant depressed attitude towards life. Kids have very little zest for doing much, since nothing seems to be good enough. W wants to blame it on me "because I make her unhappy", she tries to "fix" anything that bothers her, nothing is right/done right, so the kids have given up (I have to an extent too). The kids gave up a long time ago, I try quite a bit still, most of our friends and family think I do too much (even her mom). It amazes me how much of a negative affect a spouse can have on a family. I guess I'm still trying to figure out if she will actually admit her mistake and change, or not.

She doesn't necesarrily have to admit it to me, just figure it out, change and improve our situation. Pride is a tough thing, not something ever swallowed easily in her family. Unfortunately I see a mirror of her grandparents R in our R. I use to shake my head and say poor grandpa....., well hopefully my grandkids won't have to do the same. But I knew then it was grandma's choice and I know now it is W choice. Will she break the cycle.

Thanks for the lead on the Dr. Phil web site.

Phoenix, why are you playing her game? You say you are tired of everything being done to her approval, but you don't have to do that. You control you. Don't fight with her, but don't cow-tow to her either. That, of course, is my humble opinion, and you must do what you feel is right. But, my feeling is that you allow your W to get away with far too much, for the sake of peace, perhaps? Maybe, if she realises that the world doesn't constantly revolve around her, and her needs, then she might wake up. I am sorry! It sounds like I am really being mean, but I cannot stand over-controlling people, who have the attitude that only their way is perfection, and they will only be happy when things are to their satisfaction. Very selfish, self-serving, and rather childish, but then, that is what MLC'ers are, 'eh!



I hope the week goes well for you, despite your sitch!

Your right, I just need to find a smooth, do-able path out to the other side. I have been trying to encourage more and more family fun, not letting the little stuff get me down and proceeding like someone who has a plan. I'll try to get on more later tonight, but you seem to understand how I see it too.