Hm. No simple answer there, and quite honestly, I am not in a position to discuss it freely right now.
But I will say this. Everyone has their limit. You just don't know what it is until you hit it. You KNOW when you know.
The anger is gone, the resentment is gone, the sadness, the feelings of failure as a woman, a wife. That unbelievable level of underlying tension...gone. I am who and what I am, and I will not spend one second more of my life apologizing for, or feeling bad about, being who and what I am.
I think it is too bad that it came to this. But I did not make the decision lightly, nor did I make it without long and careful deliberating... I looked under every rock I could find first...
I'm a Libra, too, Cobra. It took me almost 13 years to the day I first entered counseling before I hit my limit.
Funny you did that, I did just the same thing after posting and came to the same conclusion. It is not surprising that the W might read that and come to the (I think false) conclusion that the book is anti-LD. We all tend to read into things what we want to hear.
Back when the EA was in full swing and I was trying to deal with all of my conflicting feelings, I did have a lot of convos with my wife about SSM-type issues. Unfortunately, I'm sure I came off very scatterbrained and confused (all of you have seen me that way here so you know what I am talking about), so I may have scared her off a bit on R convos. I have stopped doing that (on the advice of people here on the board) for awhile now, but I think once we get started with MC (about a week from now) I think it would be good for the W and I to agree on some mutual reading. I am considering 5LL, SSM, Relationship Rescue (which we started a bit earlier), and others. I also have been collecting thoughts from posts on this board that I want to give to her when the time is right. Someone made a suggestion (to someone else) to have the W read some of the posts on this board. I am a bit afraid of letting the W read some of my posts on this board, as I did vent a bit more than I should have at times. When we do talk about R issues, she tends to really focus on statements I make that bug her to the exclusion of things she agrees with, so I'm sure she would pick certain things I have said here and ignore the rest. Maybe I am wrong though. Its pretty clear that I have a very incomplete understanding of my W's motives (that I think is becoming more complete but I have a long way to go).
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Absolutely, I agree with you. I was just answering CeMar's question. I think the most heart-breaking thing I've ever experienced was to finally realize how my actions had affected my H, for truly, I had NO IDEA. Awareness can be a very painful thing... and it could be why so many LDs can not or will not see it. It's a pretty darn horrifying moment, and then to top it off, you have to figure out how to change yourself, to continue to try your best when your spouse is not yet willing to forgive or forget... they're still being their lovely obsitnate selves because they're afraid to hope, or afraid to believe the changes are permanent... or because they truly are azzholes. It's tough, no mistake about that.
Do not take my response to CeMar's question as an indication of some lack of empathy or compassion for the HD plight. He asked a simple question and I gave a simple answer. We all know the LD/HD experience is anything but.
Corri
Corri, I know you were just answering Cemars question. I very glad that you have been able to see how you have impacted you H. I am also graftfull that my wife after nearly 20 years figured out too that her actions caused definate reaction and lack of action sometimes on my part. I appreciate your insights, your and others have helped me over the last couple of years a bunch and I thank you for that. I tend to get a bit sensitive to these issues as I feel many LD women are blind to how distructive the lack of imitancy can be too the entire R. I know it's just as distructive for the Ladies that are the HD hooked up with a LD mate also. I still think that we guys are treated differently (except here) than women dealing with a LD mate. We are suppose to control and surpress our desire. The man who strays because he's been neglected for years is an outcast and louse. The women in the same situation gets sympathy and support from friends and family because she been living an "unfullfilled" life. I know the this was much different 20-30 years ago. I hate double standards. Again, Corri thanks.
Women generally ML. Men gennerally have sex. Having sex seems to be a bodily function that a gal has no comparable item for. Men get all tired after. Women are energized.
Women make love with their emotions and pour their beings into the experience. Some guys, my H for example, never thought of the gal, or how to find the ways to please them. He just thought that you "hammer long enough" and that will work.
Many men on here claim to enjoy the total woman. Teasing, snuggling, coaxing, laughing and then masterfully making love to her, tenderly or animalistically or anywhere inbetween. I wonder however how many really just want to get it on/off in a "bathroom like matter" without the togetherness of the couple?
LG I love to spend that time together and enjoy pleasing her as it turns me on more. I have heard too many times remarks like "lets just get this over with". I hate that, lets enjoy this and what life has for us what's the HURRY??? I had gotten to the point of as Monk calls the negotiatied sex, or pitty sex or what every you want to call it, I just got up and said, no thanks. If the goal is just to "get off" that can be done done by yourself without dealing with crappy attitudes. ML is basicly like dancing if you have 2 partners who are in tune and like to dance they get better and better with practice. What I don't understand is why would a partner who really doesn't like to dance marry a dancer?
Monk; I think you nailed it very well.......THANKS MAN!!! You are so much better than this Fool at making and writing observations. Can I steal it?
You have NAILED my feelings on this subject, especially the negotiated sex question, but even the broader point. Only with relatively-similar drives, and BOTH spouses agreeing to work on this, will this work, at least long-term, IMHO. And the further APART the drives, the even MORE committed both spouses have to be to the process, and even then I think they're destined for a life of fits-and-spurts and a lot of heartache and frustration.
I'm sure many would consider this the pessimistic view, but it's just been my observation on this board for the past two years.
From a strictly LD/HD perspective, I can see the logic of your conclusions.
What I've observed on this board, once you really get the 'meat' of people's stories, is that, barring medical and physical problems, lack of sex is not the issue, it is merely a symptom of much larger issues in the R.
Read ATLDAVE's post again and you will see that his recommendations on the LD/HD sitch. did not once address fixing the 'sexual discrepancy.'
Corri
P.S. Thank you everyone for your kind words to me.
Hey, I didn't want to further hijack that other post, and thought you might be posting your own soon; and then when you did, it was lighthearted. But I do want to say that I'm sorry that you're facing a divorce right now. You've brought so much good advice, and sincere caring, to others on here, that it saddens me that things have not worked out for yourself.
Corri, Sorry to hear that your R didn't work out and that you are getting a D. We all know you did your best! You are definitely a stronger/better woman for all you've put into yourself trying to work things out.
