In my opinion, these statistics are very interesting. They are MUCH lower than what I have been lead to believe. Everything I have heard about the homeschooling community, through my wife or course, would suggest that homeschoolers perform closer to the 95% ranking. I always thought that was incredibly biased. This website lends some credence to my suspicions. Thanks.
"Just how much time do kids get to "socialize" during school hours anyway? On the bus trip to school, 5-10 minutes before the school bell rings, less than half an hour during lunch, many schools don't even have a play period for younger kids anymore, 5-10 minutes after school, and finally on the bus trip home. Socializing during class hours is not only not allowed, it is rigorously discouraged. So, it looks like maybe about an hour per day?"
Good golly, what schools have you been around? Is this typical? Most of the schools I have been in (doing outreach work) the kids are doing activities nearly every day in every class and doing lots of socializing, team-work, etc. while doing the activities.
"If your primary peer group are all your age, then I see it as soaking in a pool of collective ignorance."
Not to be too harsh, but I find that to be very cynical. The old model of the teacher lecturing from "on high" supposedly from a position of wisdom has been shown to be ineffective to many children. By giving the children inquiry-based activities and letting them go though the process of discovery with their peers (guided somewhat by the instructor) the studentes retain the key lessons much better.
"before subjecting them to the cruelty that is part and parcel of the primary school experience, much less the middle school level."
You are right there. One reason I would consider home schooling is to avoid the bully-victim mentality that is so pervasive (and permitted by far too many teachers, principles for my taste) in schools.
"the inability to pursue your curiosity for more than a short period of time if at all"
Again, maybe I am living in an unusual environmnet, but most teachers in this area have very activity/inquiry-based classes.
"For all the whacked out homeschooled kids (and I know they're out there) I can only point out that they are the result of whacked out parents"
Good point. I guess the real question about homeschooling is what is the primary reason? Are you doing it for the benifit of your children, or because of some insecurity you have? The problem would be that the people who are doing it out of insecurity would have convinced themselves it was for the betterment of their children.
"If socialization (and is there a qualifier of good and bad here?) is performed so well primarily in schools, then they have something to answer for in relationship to the group dynamics that are an integral part of the schooling situation because the disfunctional kids shouldn't exist since they've been properly socialized."
No argument here.
"Kids with different learning styles aren't accommodated in a group schooling situation."
Again, not the situation I see in school around here. There is lots of hands-on activity-based learning, very little "chalk-and-talk." Now at the university ...
"but we do flunk kids who aren't at a specific educational place at a specific grading time in a few specific subjects."
Whoa! Haven't you heard of social promotion. Very little flunking and holding back goes on anymore. In fact, now that the government has its nose stuck in schooling so much, state/federal funding is tied to head-count, so there is administrative pressure to not fail students. I have teachers tell me that they are forced to give students time in class to do homework, because the students know that they won't be flunked so they don't do their work at home.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"Actually where I live. The children are required to be quite on the bus or are wrote up. Lunches are in assigned seats and quite voices. Anything above a whisper or excessive speaking results in silent lunches. Hallway and bathroom time is monitered and expected to be quite or again they are wrote up. So if they are not in the age group that still has recess. PE is the only class they are allowed any real social interactions."
DOUBLE YIKES!!! Things are SOOO different where you live than where I live. I can't imagine.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Quote: What I found during homeschooling is that we could drop conjugating verbs for a few days and chase down multiple avenues of whatever topic fascinated us that day. Was it true that I couldn't pull out of my memory XY & Z? Absolutely. OTOH, I didn't have to say, "sorry sweetie, it's now 9:15 and we have to do our multiplication tables." Instead, I could say, "let's go to the library, find several different books, audios, videos, magazine articles, scientific/historical journals, haul them all home and spend the next 5 days looking into it. And by the way, there is an exhibit at the museum/park/historic/factory/industry/building on just that very topic. We'll head out there tomorrow."
I know that I was extraordinarily blessed when it came to school (I guess God was making up to me that I chose the wrong parents.) This was not my experience of school. At school I was free, flying, sailing-- I was in a place where I could succeed and where life was predictable. Just from what I see with my bf's daughters, school is different now. (I started first grade in 1954.) There's less exploration and more pressure. Everything is about test scores. (And citing test scores as evidence of effective learning is no more valid when discussing homeschooling than it is when discussing public schooling.)
I was (and still am) one of those kids who could sit still and learn by listening. As an NF (intuitive-introvert), I live in my imagination, I love to read, and to write, so conventional education served me well all the way through graduate school. I realize that conventional classrooms were made for people like me and that not everyone learns this way. Dawna Markova has written some great books on this subject.
When I referred to the teacher pulling info out of his or her own mental data bank, I didn't mean specifically that the teacher has to know everything, or that parents aren't capable of looking something up. I meant that a teacher who has functioned within a particular field for years (biology, American literature) is just going to have more of an overview of the subject and know patterns (gee, what it is about me and patterns?) and linkages with other subjects than a parent who studied it once upon a time and is now researching the subject along with the students.
I would rather learn American literature from someone who really knows American literature-- and can cite influences, cultural, historical, religious, philosophical, psychological on the authors and their works-- than from someone who is one chapter ahead of me in the book. I used to hate it in graduate school when we would have to break up into groups and "teach each other" some aspect of the curriculum. I felt that I was paying tuition to be exposed to the expert, presumably my professor... not to listen to other ignorant students like myself expound on hastily done research. (And I realize I'm now talking about college, not elem school.)
Obviously homeschoolers do not consider this much of an issue, and I'm just wondering how they would address this? I know it is a different world today.
I would like to echo the comments of everyone here. I think you are doing the right thing. Clearly, you have your heart in the right place when it comes to the education of your children, so who else could do a better job? And you are absolutely right about it giving you a great opportunity to build a strong life-long relationship with your children. Kudos. I hope D6 has fun and learns a lot from her extras. I know I loved band, b-ball, choir, barbershop quartet, school musical, honor band, chess club, computer club, etc. etc. Made a lot of good friends and developed a love for art and sports. Sounds like the group you are working with really has their act together. Best of luck.
To all, I only ask these questions about home-schooling, as I am coming from a position of ignorance and wanted to learn more. Thanks for all your responses and perspectives. We've (W and I) got 3 years to decide.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Lillie, If the experts truly taught like what you are suggesting, I think it would be a valid concern.
My experience was that there was very little teaching going on that one could not gather yourself, from the textbook. It was like this from gradeschool through college. The teachers I had who did not teach like this stand out in my mind to this day.
I would agree that, at some point, my own educational limitations will crop up but I think that the well-roundedness (weren't we just talking about this earlier??) of a home education will make up for that. IOW, I can hire tutors if need be, or do as MrsNOP said and take a more hands-on approach with library materials and field trips and spending as much time on the subject as she and I need.
Also, what do you make of the statistics that say that homeschooled children are academically above their peers? Despite not having 'experts' teach them, they are achieving at higher levels; I'm curious what you make of that.
"This is the thing I wonder about homeschooling. I realize this doesn't apply so much in the younger grades, but as a kid gets older, what about being taught a subject by a teacher who really KNOWS that subject inside and out, versus a parent who may be one chapter ahead of the child in the textbook?"
This is the one fear I would have of homeschooling, but the availability of information on the internet is astounding. The parent just needs to familiarize themselves with good education sites (.edu, .gov) versus bad sites (typically .com .org, although there are some good sites if you are careful). And when you add in the multimedia capabilities, the internet is a strong resource, if used properly.
The other disadvantage would be availability of lab equipment for the home schooler, but apparently some of these home-schooling groups have their act together.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"Also, what do you make of the statistics that say that homeschooled children are academically above their peers? Despite not having 'experts' teach them, they are achieving at higher levels; I'm curious what you make of that."
I can tell you exactly why. Low salaries and ridiculously low qualification standards for teachers these days. You really should go online to the education school at your local university and look at the required courses for teachers these days. LOTS of pedagogy, VERY little content. For example, middle school science teachers are typically required only to take Biology and Chemistry courses, while their state standards are chock full of physics, astronomy, and earth science. So these teachers really are no better off knowledge-wise than a parent. And when you add in being overworked and being forced to teach to a test, it should be no surprise that a lot of basic knowledge gets left off.
Oh, and I would like to officially note that I hate standardized testing. I know it is a necessity in our ADHD/ADD world, but it really is a stupid way to gauge knowledge.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Generally, I think there is a lot of co-oping for the upper grades where parents who are strong in particular subjects teach those subjects to several kids, not just their own. I know in my brother's case they have a very strong and pretty large co-op. From what I've seen in both public and private schools, the teachers (there are exceptions) generally do not have a real strong background in the courses they teach, so in most cases I don't think the homeschooled kids who work with co-op arrangements are at any disadvantage in terms of the expertise of the instructor.
And you are absolutely right about it giving you a great opportunity to build a strong life-long relationship with your children. Kudos. I hope D6 has fun and learns a lot from her extras. I know I loved band, b-ball, choir, barbershop quartet, school musical, honor band, chess club, computer club, etc. etc. Made a lot of good friends and developed a love for art and sports. Sounds like the group you are working with really has their act together. Best of luck.