Interesting how those words struck a chord with you.
I cannot help my perception, what I perceive of you....you write in your own posts. I'm only trying to let you know how you come across here....you might notice, I'm not the only one telling you that you come across in an antagonistic manner. We don't get tonal inflection in these posts....so when you resort to name-calling "minions" is just the one that sticks in my head...what do you think people are going to think? Not great things right? Kind of like me saying you come across "hateful or childish"....you didn't appear to like that either.
Does that color your perception of me, I don't know. But it obviously stuck with you since you replied to that particular post....twice.
Well, yeh, you can't equate "hateful or childish" with "minions". For heavens sake, hateful means Nazis, Imperial Storm Troopers, Al-Quaeda; minions means women who leap at the chance to do a favor for a macho man or oriental pasha. There's no way you can equate the terms. Anyway, I answered twice because I forgot something and I post in between talking with and emailing clients (I am doing this at work - I shouldn't spend so much time on this.)
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
Actually....yes, I can equate them (because you don't get to tell me what I can and can't do .)
I used the words I did intentionally, the words....minion, hateful, & childish....all conjur up undesireable pictures in my mind when referring to an adult, that would be why I used those words. "Minion" according to the dictionary (I double checked this to make sure I wasn't speaking out of turn)...also means "a servile or fawning dependant" or "an obsequious follower".....those TS aren't flattering to anyone....go look it up. Websters.com
"Hateful" to you obviously means those things such as Nazis etc...but you have no idea how I intended it now do you? One of my interpretations of hateful is someone who tears others down, someone who is constantly negative...I don't necessarily mean someone who commits genocide or leads the "dark side"....but how are you to know that unless I tell you that's my interpretation? You won't. THAT would be why I used those words....I figured you might interperet them differently. Words are powerful TS, written or spoken.
You do have an tendancy to tear people down on here if they don't see things your way, or if they agree with someone you don't agree with. You may not think you do this, but you do. When other posters have come to this BB and not provided support after awhile people stop responding to them....I mean, who wants to beat their head up against a wall on here? I can do that at home!
TS I think you are probably a really nice guy and I'm pulling for you, I really am. But are you sure you are in Atlanta, you aren't from New Jersey? I have a friend from Jersey and you remind me an awful lot of him....he too has a tendancy to come off in a way he doesn't intend LOL.
No, I'm not from New Jersey. I once got a ticket there, though. I don't have much love for the state, having flown into Newark a few times. But maybe that's just a surface impression.
If you mean negative, why don't you say negative, instead of hateful. They call this city (Atlanta) "The City Too Busy to Hate"; that brings up to me memories of race riots and demonstrations and police dogs and KKK and everything.
To me, obsequious follower still isn't as powerful as hateful, but that's just me.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
I'm VERY familiar with Atlanta...AKA Hotlanta. My LDH is from just outside of Athens GA...I go through there several times a year and am often in Atlanta for business.
I'm familiar with Stone Mountain and many many of the other pleasant and not so pleasant associations with that city as well. Personally, I like Atlanta...wouldn't live there though, the traffic is a PAIN, at least on the highway at rush-hour, which seems to be when I'm always trapped on it.
I said what I said to make a point to you. Your selection of words comes across with a tone, just as my selection of words came across with a tone to you (I DID IT ON PURPOSE TO MAKE A POINT, I already told you that). You get soooo busy picking apart EVERYTHING anyone else says that challenges you that you completely miss the point people try to make.
TS...you probably won't like this much but you remind me very much of my own father. I'm sure you two are nowhere near the same age, but you remind me of him. He gets tunnel vision trying to prove to everyone else where they are going wrong, he doesn't see what he is doing....and doesn't listen when people try to tell him.
I know you may not like that, but I see you doing the EXACTL same thing.
Quote: TS I think you are probably a really nice guy and I'm pulling for you, I really am. But are you sure you are in Atlanta, you aren't from New Jersey? I have a friend from Jersey and you remind me an awful lot of him....he too has a tendancy to come off in a way he doesn't intend LOL.
GEL
Hey, my WIFE's from Jersey! I love that place!!!
(OK, so its denizens aren't exactly the snuggly, nookie type, but the Shore and the rolling inland hills are gorgeous.)
Just thought I'd lighten up the knife fight.
Choc.
Jersey Girl
(Tom Waits)
I got no time for the corner boys Down in the street making all that noise Or the girls out on the avenue `Cause tonight I wanna be with you Tonight I'm gonna take that ride Across the river to the Jersey side Take my baby to the carnival And I'll take her on all the rides
`Cause down the shore everything's all right You and your baby on a Saturday night You know all my dreams come true When I'm walking down the street with you
Sha la la la la la la Sha la la la la la la la la Sha la la la la la la Sha la la la I'm in love with a Jersey girl
You know she thrills me with all her charms When I'm wrapped up in my baby's arms My little girl gives me everything I know that some day she'll wear my ring So don't bother me man I ain't got no time I'm on my way to see that girl of mine `Cause nothing matters in this whole wide world When you're in love with a Jersey girl
Sha la la la...
I see you on the street and you look so tired I know that job you got leaves you so uninspired When I come by to take you out to eat You're lyin' all dressed up on the bed baby fast asleep Go in the bathroom and put your makeup on We're gonna take that little brat of yours and drop her off at your mom's I know a place where the dancing's free Now baby won't you come with me `Cause down the shore everything's all right You and your baby on a Saturday night Nothing matters in this whole wide world When you're in love with a Jersey girl
I wasn't putting Jersey down at all, can't do that...never been there. He just reminded me of a friend of mine that tends to come off a certain way....who is from Jersey. Personally...I have no opinion of Jersey
I find your machismo refreshing in today's PC world. I feel that men in general have been quite heavily pressured into gender roles that don't really suit them (and that women don't find attractive) and when someone as clear spoken as you comes along it does stir up the pot Post by USSwede
Actually, I have been heavily pressured since the Day One into the macho role (don't show feelings, don't cry, don't show weakness, excel in athletics so women will be attracted to you).
Funny, those are the words I used, "stir up the pot". Anyway, You obviously just don't get it, so I'm going to stop wasting my time trying to help you see the difference.
You know, Ninja, you are right. I didn't get it. I didn't understand why you women would have such affection for men who put forward the standard macho line "Men have to have the dominant role in the R and women the submissive (gosh I can feel the frying pans whistling around) for things to work right. Its a biological directive. I dont give a flying F what our society or feminazis have to say about what SHOULD be. I can prove this from biology and science, or from the Old testament." (Don't try and say BF only means this in a very limited way, maybe just for sex or whatever. He says R, which to me means the total package) OK, when I first read that, I thought BF was a religious fundamentalist. Now, no. But, I think the rationale behind this macho posturing and strutting is he, or any man who does it, wants to be taken seriously. So how are men taken seriously in our culture. By macho posturing and strutting. It's an act, but an important one, because these are signals that many women react positively to. Now, I have not done any of this macho BS'ing, so automatically women on the board can dismiss me as "childish, hateful, verbally abusive" (read a 5-year-old boy who doesn't know how to act in polite society). Yeah, that's the ticket. That's what I didn't get. Why should women who say, or think of themselves as wanting a caring relationship in which their man shows them respect and doesn't try to run their lives for them, why should such women react so favorably to such macho posturing? And why should I be attacked as "hateful, abusive, childish", if I don't want to play that game?
Now, I will admit I am not looking at this process as a tea party. When I first found out about the affair, I was crushed, devastated, walked around in a daze for a week. I gather from my readings about affairs (Glass, Spring) that this is a common reaction. Your world has been destroyed and you have to build it up again from ground zero.
I ran a ten-mile exercise run on Sat. morning getting ready for a half-marathon on T'giving and afterwards (as always happens) could barely get up and down stairs. My first reaction was "This is good for my body??". But then I remembered the physiology behind exercise, especially vigorous exercise such as long runs. Now, those with medical backgrounds can correct me if the following is not completely accurate. What happens during this exercise is the muscles receive micro-tears; some are actually destroyed and have to be rebuilt. This process is good for strenthening the body, however, because the rebuilt muscles are much stronger, and old muscle cells are destroyed and replaced with new, stronger, healthier ones. So, when I got the shock to my life of learning that my WS had betrayed me, I have to rebuild my life and look at everything is a much different light. If this means tearing things down, not sorry.
I asked my WS about the reactions I have been getting to my postings on this board. Now, I didn't say everything (I get tired talking about myself after five minutes). But I did tell her what I was trying to say on my posts (probably not saying it very clearly, judging from the responses I get) was that women don't have to put up with macho posturing and should give men the benefit of the doubt and let them be individuals, with all their weaknesses and fears. I expected my WS to react as you all have, but she actually said, "Honey, what a courageous thing to say. I am proud of you for that." Go figure, I can hear the frying pans start to fly in my direction right now. Another thing she said was that she was guessing that many of the women on the board were younger, meaning, I suppose, that they still had these romantic, bodice-ripping ideals for their men, but I am only supposing, since I didn't go into that with her. I guess the women will respond, "Well, you didn't tell her how abusive and hateful and childish you were." Well, whatever.
When I was doing my ten-mile run on Saturday morning, I had this image of the women on this board sitting at a tea party, talking about their relationships, nodding in approval as Uncle NY, BF, USSwede and the others go through their macho exercises. Then I come in and drop a giant turd on the carpet and say I don't agree with all this. And everyone scurries around in anger and outrage.
You know, I think the members of this board might be self-selective, given the syndrome that Michele describes in her materials. The Walk-away Wife Syndrome she describes is the following:
In the early years of marriage, women are the relationship caretakers. They carefully monitor their relationships to make sure there is enough closeness and connection. If not, women will do what they can to try to fix things. If their husbands aren't responsive, women become extremely unhappy and start complaining about everything under the sun... things that need to get done around the house, responsibilities pertaining to the children, how free time is spent and so on. Unfortunately, when women complain, men generally retreat and the marriage deteriorates even more.
This is not and never has been a description of the relationship I have had with my WS. On the contrary, some of the requests I have made as a result of the affair are:
Going to MC Telling me "I love you" - I used to say it, and she used to respond, but not say it first. Tell me what you are feeling - I felt I was being open and revealing but did not feel that she was doing the same.
That's all I can think of right now, but there have been others.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
My attraction to strong men has nothing to do with bodice ripping nonsense. Additionally, I am young (34) but not so young that I don't know about healthy relationships. And I cannot believe that you'd listen to a woman who had an affair with a man for TWELVE years, a man who is a macho turd, and completely discount the words of the women on this forum who are fighting for their men and their marriages, tooth and nail. Boggles the mind.
I do not, for the record, want a man who tries to take away my individuality. I don't want a tyrant.
What I do want is a man who is strong enough to maintain his own boundaries and not become a doormat. I want a man who sees through my "tests" (as Blackfoot likes to call them) and can effectively deal with me. I want a man who is virile and sexy. I want a man who is strong enough to keep me in line without using anger or brute strength. I want a man who has a...force of personality...not a mushy couch potato yes man.
Fwiw, my husband is not a wussy couch potato yes man. He lets me run roughshod over him, at times, but is getting better about equalizing things (as am I) before they get to that point.
Look, it was hard for me to hear that my personal style might not be attractive or sexy to the male population. It hit me where it hurts, so to speak. I'm sorry that you are learning the hard way--via your wife's affair--that there are weak spots on your persona.
However, you can sit back and rail against the injustice of it all, or you can do something about it and become the man that she dreams about.
Quote: (Don't try and say BF only means this in a very limited way, maybe just for sex or whatever. He says R, which to me means the total package) OK, when I first read that, I thought BF was a religious fundamentalist. Now, no. But, I think the rationale behind this macho posturing and strutting is he, or any man who does it, wants to be taken seriously. So how are men taken seriously in our culture. By macho posturing and strutting. It's an act, but an important one, because these are signals that many women react positively to.
I'm female, I hit the big 5-0 soon and I don't find macho posturing appealing.
There is an evolutionary/psychological drive in woman toward men who are capable, stable, confident. I think it is those characteristics that can be (or at least the appearance of them) in the mix of macho strutting that is appealing. There have been some research showing something running underneath in women who are ovulating that increases their tendency to go after bad boys.
However, the underground longing for confidence, capability and stability comes from the need to have an ungirding of support during pregnancy and the rearing of children.
Quote:
Now, I have not done any of this macho BS'ing, so automatically women on the board can dismiss me as "childish, hateful, verbally abusive" (read a 5-year-old boy who doesn't know how to act in polite society). Yeah, that's the ticket. That's what I didn't get. Why should women who say, or think of themselves as wanting a caring relationship in which their man shows them respect and doesn't try to run their lives for them, why should such women react so favorably to such macho posturing? And why should I be attacked as "hateful, abusive, childish", if I don't want to play that game?
You need to get down off the sacrificial altar, lay down the knife and stop being a martyr. You've engaged in sarcastic, cutting remarks toward men and women here and frankly, you've been something of a dlck-head. Acting all surprised that people respond to that negatively is a form of deception to yourself.
You aren't being "attacked as "hateful, abusive, childish" by anyone on this forum because you aren't playing macho games. Stop responding to whatever conflicts you've had on another forum to the people here. We weren't there. And stop dragging NY into your fray here, the man doesn't even post on this particular forum. If you have issues with him, take it to the forum in which he participates.
What you're doing, running between forums fomenting sh*t is really strange. Why are you doing it?
Showing a woman respect isn't what is causing your problems either here or in your marriage. The whiniest, most disfunctional people in the world can treat someone with respect, but that's not a golden ticket that trumps every other interaction in your relationships.
Now, if you can get past whatever weird rut you've gotten into here, start talking to us like we're real people rather than some oddity that you're observing on a petri dish while making cryptic rude comments about us.
If I recall your situation correctly, your wife has had a long term affair that had been going on since the first of your marriage and went on for years. You found out recently and she cut off contact with him. That has got to be discombobulating to know that everything you knew for the past umpteen years of your marriage was undergirded by falsity.
I can't imagine the pain that must entail, nor the sense of betrayal. How are you dealing with it?
.) 
I love that place!!!