rabbithole, thank you so very much. i just wrote my W a long letter, because our 10 yr anniversary is the 4th of november, and sent it. it was a declaration of love, and that no matter what happened, i love her and Ds..... i explained my sadness, that the past is the past, but how i missed them, and why i love her, and Ds. it was crazy......... but after 4 months i felt like telling her that, i also told her that maybe she would think that i was a pain in the a.. and that i should move on, but that my love was rock solid and even is she married again and had 1000 kids, i am here waiting for her........... it was really crazy, but i had to do it. maybe a slip, but it was the first time i have been straight out. well, anyway, i really appreciate your input and believe me, i will read your comments with great attention. thanks again.
That took an extreme amount of courage for you to write that. I did something similar but over the phone...his response "Why now?" I guess he hadn't heard me throughout the R in all my declarations...great amount of courage and I wish you the best. The way I looked at it was I wanted to say it for me, not for him necessarily but I wanted to clear my heart and my conscious over the feelings I had.
Sorry it has taken me so long to catch up. From reading all of your posts here and on WAW, it sounds like you're just wanting to jump out of your own skin. You don't quite know what to do with yourself...understandibly so I might add.
I was just telling a friend the other day that it is so hard to jump into a thread and start offering advice, cause you read and you feel like everyone else is doing a great job answering all ready, what could I possibly have to add to all that...but I will give you what I've got.
As a WAW myself, who has turned the corner, here's just a few observations...
1. Absolutely do not go out with another woman. Find friends that are guys, learn how to have fun with the same sex. I hated that a month after I left, even though I was adamant we were better being friends, that my husband joined eharmony.com and met some girl who he started IMing from a weekend he was out with his friends. I know that when I was adamant about being friends, it was my head convincing my heart. My heart still had doubts, but my heart was so incredibly hurt and the only thing that could stop that pain was my head telling me I knew what was best. "I know you feel like you love him, but you KNOW he has hurt you time and time again. You KNOW what is best. This may hurt for a little bit, but at least now he can't hurt you anymore." When he did those things, it made me head more right.
2. I know you hate the fact there is OM in the picture, but there is NOTHING you can do...it's her choice, not yours. You need to keep repeating to yourself, "either she'll see my changes, or she won't." You need to be you, stop worrying about her. She's in control of her life, you're in control of yours. My advice to you on this...get control of your own life as your first step...you'll feel much better, like this weight has been lifted off of your shoulders. Stop looking at this situation as you trying to win her back, first try and win your own love...then attempt to share it. Do the things in hope that you can find strength, patience, and inner peace. I know you feel like things are slipping so quickly and all you want to do is stop them...you're in a hurry because you don't want her to make a mistake YOU believe you both will never be able to return from. You're still protecting you by trying to control things. She's gonna make mistakes, the real test is "can you forgive her for those?"
3. When I left, I believed I didn't love my XH anymore. We were cool as friends, we always were, but when it came to a realtionship, he had no idea how to be in one. I was there for him, but he had no idea how to be there for me. And because of that, I emotionally was drained. How do you fill up that emptiness...some look for someone else, others look to themselves. Here's what I'll tell you from my sitch...I left believing my XH cared more about himself than he ever did about me or our marriage. When I left, I shut the door, slammed it actually...but something told me I needed to be a better person than that. I didn't just spend 9 years of my life with someone that I didn't care about. If I was best friends with someone, how all of the sudden do we just cut all ties...so I said "let's be friends". Being friends, I thought, would allow me some objectivity in the situation...he was completely free to make his own choices, as they didn't affect me anymore. But what I realize now, is that sometimes I was HOPING he'd do something in particular that would tell me I was wrong...he did care about me as much as he did himself. I was still in the same cycle of our marriage...I was still clinging to the possibility that I was wrong, but everytime he did something as he always did it pushed me faster in the other direction, confirming I had been right all along. "If he was so in love with me as he professed and how he realizes all of these things about himself, he would choose ___________" but he always chose immediate gratification for himself. I hope this point is getting across....he couldn't have patience...he couldn't get a life outside of me that was still going to be health for the both of us...he was depressed, lonely, sad, etc. and he was trying to cure that anyway he knew how...the only way he knew how...from someone else. All I wanted was him to want me and do those things that said that. Not flowers, letters, etc, but by his everyday actions of healing himself.
I know we keep saying this to you, but patience...have patience...truly accept her reasons, don't just say you do, actually look from her eyes and say to yourself "If I were her, I'd be doing the exact same things". Then look at you through her eyes. By your hasty responses you are doing exactly what she expects from you. You say you've changed, but you haven't...this is all still about you and what you want and when you want it. When truly to do a 180, you need to make it about her and let it be okay. I'm not saying give up...so don't take it that way, but I am saying...give in to the hurt so you can heal and be there for her like you've never been before.
DBing is awesome, but don't treat it like a process or things, it needs to be a belief. It isn't something you do to get your marriage back, it's something you do to have a better life and better relationships...because if you asked all of us to answer truthfully if we wanted our marriage back, we'd all tell you "NO WAY, we want a better M back and the only way is to have both H and W at the table as better people." You don't want your wife back right now in the state of mind she's in...you do your work and all you can do is have faith she'll do hers.
Nickel
"The walls we build around us to keep sadness out also keeps out the joy."
rabbithole, i had alot of work lately. in no way did you offend me, u enlightened me, but i have to update........ before, thanks again for your insight...... ok, W lately has sent me emails, being nice and polite as always, but insisting that we should define things for the purpose of our Ds mental health.... oh by the way, the letter i wrote about, at the end of writing it, i was crying so hard that i blew it, it turns out she didnt receive it, maybe i didnt send it, maybe forgot to press the send button..... at her insistence we chatted on saturday. the night before, my therapist (after not seeing her 2 weeks) told me or suggested that my depression doesnt come from my R, but from my love to Ds. after careful analysis, that is the major percentage of my sadness, the fact that i cannot see them or that i participate in her growing up process. if it were not for them, say if we married and had no children, i think i would completely erase her from my mind, because i would not put up being the second guy, and waiting for her time to wake up. i am totally sure i would move on. that really made sense to me and felt that i should actually take a hold of my situation and also be honest with me and with her.... so that was my frame of mind when we chatted.... ok, so on saturday, i expressed what i felt. told her we had done much damage to each other, sort of hinting that our R was irreversibly broken, but that i wanted and demanded, for i have also the right, to be present in our Ds lives. so i proposed to her for them to move back. i would buy a house for them, give her a car, and would give her extra money for her expenses. she would have also free time to travel to the other state, but the benefit would be that our Ds would have access to their father and mother. i asked her to please consider this option for the sake of Ds lives, because i know, and they express, that they miss me much. so i pretty much took a stance, and sort of blew it, however i feel good and bad, ambivelent, because deep inside i would like my family back. started re reading DR, and found that one has to read the concepts again and again, my understanding, after 4 months is totally different then whe i first read the book, this because my needs were different. what i got this time is that sheer determination, will power, strength, patience, and time are truly necessary..... and that if i am to do that, i will probably go mentally insane. the concept of detachment and GALing also took a different light in my perspective. GAling and detachment for me now, is to move on..... not expecting really to go back..... however, i believe that is truly impossible if you still have hope...... that is why it is better just to move on, although you dont want the consequences of actually filing and all the drama.... my W responded that she would seriously consider the proposition, and i am still waiting. however, she doesnt know that i could legally enforce that right, because here if there is an abandonment, i guess the LBS has the right for full custody. so i am again in limbo land, fighting for my sanity, and in my pillow, praying to God for a miracle. all this has made me anxious, i am growing zits like a teenager, maybe its time to take some medication, which i have refused to do......... i truly love you all for the courage, wisdom, and fraternity i absorb while reading all the posts, in my desperate hours of loneliness......... God bless you all.
I have been reading alot lately, but havent got the urge to write. My last interventions were pretty negative, and I guess I shouldn’t write anger, for this is a pro marriage site. I am again riding the roller coaster, I don’t know what to decide…. My W did not answer my proposition yet….. maybe she is thinking and taking her time, consulting, for this is a real mess. I am now inclined to just give her the D, and let her stay with Ds, because it is the best for them, to be with their mother. Sooner or later I will heal and move on, so why jeopardize our future friendship. Plus my Ds, have a good mother…….. My roller coaster emotional ride is due to the fact that I am not patient at all…. I like things to be clear, I don’t know how to flow, and be flexible. I read again MFs thread, and that guy deserves a statue anywhere in the world, preferably in a park close to his house, what a master of patience and love. I wonder how he is doing, I hope he found what he worked for…. Its funny how one starts to read different forums, and really get interested differently, as time passes by. Now I have been reading the prayer circle, divorced but not done, and newcomers, where I should have started…. But me, I thought to start at WAW because that was what I needed, now I am here, the infidelity forum, but I am starting to accept the divorce but not done situation. I feel like in college, and in highschool, alone, the difference is that I accepted and was happy with that freedom, plus my emotional support came from my family, and friends. Now, I cant appreciate them, I miss W and Ds, so I feel empty, really lonely. I am definitely depressed… like today I went to sleep at my parents, watched cable and went to sleep with my clothes on, woke up, watched tv, ate, watched tv, slept, had tea with them, came back home, wrote here, called Ds, …….same clothes, forgot evertything. Medications? I hate the feeling of being drowsy, I feel like a robot/zombie/puppet. I have been smoking a lot though, and it is starting to bother me. Read tambos thread, I sensed he is through, he has no more patience, and perceived him as discouraged. I don’t blame you, I understand………..ups and downs. Waw fighters thread made me cry of happinnes for him, I cried and felt like when I watch the Olympics, or the Worl Football Championships, when the winners get the medals, I always cry, for heroism, the hard work, the glory…………. I also read burgbuds thread, what a nice guy, he deserves to go back with W, oh they are so blind to acknowledge the true treasures they have right before them….. Problem is that us have probably done so much damage, and during so much time, that when we truly understand and listen and see the problems, it is late, very late……….. so much so, that they find peace in others, what true mistakes. When I cheated and abandoned my M, in presence, time, and energy, I knew deep inside I was wrong, but I was blind, I actually thought it did not matter because my M was sacred, that I was to die old holding my Ws hand, walking in parks and talking, and sharing………….. I took my life for granted. Now I see so many men doing the same things, they don’t look at their wives, are sometimes rude, bad jokes, are indifferent….. but I cant tell them my story or change them. Oh well, hope everybody starts the week with strength, love, and patience….. see you soon.
OK PEOPLE I NEED HELP NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I NEED AN ARSENAL OF OPINIONS, PERSPECTIVES, AND POINTS OF VIEW TO BE ABLE TO DECIDE, PLEASE HELP EVEN IF IT IS ONE SENTENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! W wrote back and said that no, she wants to stay there, and that she sees Ds happy and adjusted. that the move would be going back to yesterday, and that she sees a new life for her. Oh my God, incredible!!!!!!!! it is like she moved on, she also mentioned passages from the Bible, like let the dead bury the dead, and that life etc. etc. I know there has to be hope, maybe pushing it, maybe not wanting to accept reality, but since i have been a cheater, i know that she will find out eventually..... i just know it. so, what should my strategy be now. oh, forgot to mention, she thinks that we should file or do something so that she has peace of mind, and so that Ds are informed clearly of what is going on... found out that here, if you are separated for 2 years than the D is automatic. the other alternative is to have an agreement (civilized), and the other is to go all out. i dont want that, i dont want fights, i want the agreement but like 8 months from now, or after the 2 years of separation. or is it better to just get the D now???? what do you think, i cant change her mind, so just quit??????????? is it better to time pass a bit more??? i tried the distancing, and it worked, she even told me she wanted to decide, maybe OM is making her fall madly in love, and she changed. i also notice alot of anger towards me, in a letter she said that we are in this situation because i shouted at her, our D, because i strayed, and that it wasnt good or bad, but it was. she is clearly convinced......... should i not believe her??????????? what the hell, please help!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm so sorry for the pain you are enduring. I think the key word is enduring; let's see if we can find a way to ease some of that. Other DBers suggest walks. What used to make you happy, before you met W? I don't mean the partying but you mentioned an interest in philosophizing. Is there a college near you where you can take a class? What about a book store? They often have book groups which is a great way to meet new people (people who don't know you as H of WAW). Find what makes you peaceful and then do it. As for the other part of your stitch, wait. You do not sound ready to make ultimatums you sound like you're ready for more DBing, so.... follow the 24/48/72 hour rule. Wait! Wait until you're calm to make a decision. Remember, your emotions are up and down and you don't want to do something you might regret. So just wait. I hope this helps.
