I just don't understand this. I mean that I comprehend the principles involved with an MLC and DBing, but I just don't understand why this keeps getting worse and worse.
WAW won't come to the house to open Christmas gifts with the girls and I. She will tame them to "her home" (the apt) to open gifts.
She normally has DD's on Thu PM, but one night, she has a conflict. Since I don't have DD's on Thu PM, I scheduled 2 hrs of activities for every Thu 7-9. She tells me of her conflict and asks to switch Wed for Thu. I say I have a conflict too, but OK. She says it's OK they can stay home while you're out. WTF? Can't they stay at the apt while she is out?
This all began 16 months ago w/WAW saying, "This is about me and my happiness". It seems that she more selfish, self-centered and self-absorbed than ever. Where does it all end? How does one deal w/a 43-yr-old teenager that you can't parent?
I've come to the conclusion that there are two prongs to DB'ing. One for the WAS and one for the LBS. DB'ing seem not to work on the WAS in a majority of the WAS's which makes the DB'ing prong for the LBS even harder, but more important. In my case, early on, I felt that DB'ing wasn't the right medicine for my WAW. It's like putting a band aid on a stroke. In our society one can be forced to deal with a physical illness, unfortunately we don't feel the same way about emotion illness.
Yes, I am exasperated. Yes, I'm close to not dropping the rope, but making it into a noose and hanging our marriage from the gallows. This is so very frustrating.
It's not. You set yourself off. We own our own reactions.
On Mon I sent an email to WAW stating that it was inappropriate to bring OM to DD's performance. Today she replied "I'll go where I want, when I want, with whom I want." At one time, I would have blown up over this, but when I talked to DBC, she said that MLC'rs think like adolecents and thus, I was able to see this as WAW being am MLC WAW and should I have expected anything different? Nah.
And so you controlled your reaction here. Nice!
The DBC is correct in saying that you shouldn't expect anything different. And maybe MLCers do act adolescent in that their behavior is strikingly immature, but I would add this: usually telling anyone else what you deem as appropriate is tantamount to telling them how to run their life. You can't rule others. Her bringing OP to see the performance is not an abhorrent thing, it's part of her current life. Look, if he's gonna have a presence in your D's life, it's nice that he takes a caring interest in her. He could be a real shmuck and not give a hoot.
WAW won't come to the house to open Christmas gifts with the girls and I. She will tame them to "her home" (the apt) to open gifts.
That's where she'd prefer to have those moments with her children. That's her perogative. She used the word "tame" or is that how you're characterizing her decision?
How does one deal w/a 43-yr-old teenager that you can't parent?
Why do you want to be her parent? Doesn't that strike you as being controlling?
I felt that DB'ing wasn't the right medicine for my WAW.
You want to be her therapist too?
but I just don't understand why this keeps getting worse and worse.
I dunno, maybe it just seems that way. She's living her life the way she wants to, not the way you want her to. So maybe it's more a matter of your grasp being tight, not getting the results you'd like, that make it appear by contrast as "worse".
Yes, I am exasperated.
Small wonder!
Cross posted:
My thought is to go through the the D b/c
1) if there is any chance of us getting back together, she has to go out on her own and come to the decision that she wants an R w/me
and
2) I need to let go, drop the rope and move on and decide what I want to do. I know that I don't what an R w/her as we were or as we are. If there is to be an R, then we both need to change and we both need to commit.
Good reasons for moving forward... you sure your decision to divorce doesn't stem from your frustration or to "shock" her, right?
If it's been six months to a year and no turnarounds are happening, then divorce may be an option (why be tied to her legally, right?) since you're seeing the marriage as gone and dead and more interested in your future then in a past relationship that doesn't exist anymore.
She used the word "tame" or is that how you're characterizing her decision?
My mistake, a typo. It should have been "She will take them to "her home" (the apt) to open gifts." My characterization of her decision is selfish b/c the girls will be hurt by this, but I will let them experience this and react to this on their own.
Her bringing OP to see the performance is not an abhorrent thing, it's part of her current life. Look, if he's gonna have a presence in your D's life, it's nice that he takes a caring interest in her. He could be a real shmuck and not give a hoot.
I do know that he has had no presence in D's lives so far. I do know that he has close to no presence in his own D's life, b/c she wants nothing to do w/him since she found out about his R w/WAW. I have no idea how he feels about that or what he's done to try to connect w/his own D. That's his. I would characterize him as a schmuck for other choices he's made.
Why do you want to be her parent?
I don't want to be her parent. At one point I was her partner. I liked that. I was hoping to return to being her partner.
So maybe it's more a matter of your grasp being tight, not getting the results you'd like, that make it appear by contrast as "worse".
WAW told me that she is rude to me b/c she is afraid that if she weren't that I would mistake that for her wanting to come back. She has a point there. I'd characterize it as her getting more and more frustrated w/me for not going forward w/the D. I am friendly during our face to face interactions. The only real times that I "get on her case" is when I think her behavior can hurt D's. I admit that I do try to protect them, but I'm stepping back from that.
you sure your decision to divorce doesn't stem from your frustration or to "shock" her, right?
Right. I'm spending too much energy on managing my emotions and reactions to her. I need to direct my energy else where.
why be tied to her legally
We'll always be tied together as long as we are alive or both of the D's are alive. (birthdays, proms, graduations, etc.)The only thing signing the paper changes is her legal ability to sign a paper w/OM.
By nature I am more conservative. I gave her my word to be true to her "'till death do us part." I pretty much meant the in sickness and in health part too, regardless of whether the sickness was spiritual, emotional or physical. From my perspective, she is emotionally and spiritually ill, but she does not share my perspective.
My characterization of her decision is selfish b/c the girls will be hurt by this
During and after my first divorce, my kids and I celebrated holidays (those that I had with them) with me at my place, and other holidays with their mom at their place. There is a trend nowadays, from what I've read, where divorced families get together for occasions, SOs, new spouses and all, but I never did that. Did it hurt my kids? Before I answer that, be it known that by having two Christmases every year, they got twice as many gifts, the little connivers!
I do know that he has had no presence in D's lives so far. I do know that he has close to no presence in his own D's life, b/c she wants nothing to do w/him since she found out about his R w/WAW. I have no idea how he feels about that or what he's done to try to connect w/his own D. That's his. I would characterize him as a schmuck for other choices he's made.
He probably is a shmuck in many ways, but at least he showed an interest in going to the performance.
I don't want to be her parent. At one point I was her partner. I liked that. I was hoping to return to being her partner.
OK. I asked because you wrote: "How does one deal w/a 43-yr-old teenager that you can't parent?" and that's what I inferred from it.
WAW told me that she is rude to me b/c she is afraid that if she weren't that I would mistake that for her wanting to come back.
That's distorted, huh? IOW, she steps up ugly behaviors in order to make you not want her. A simple, civil, "Please stop. I don't feel the same way." won't do for her, huh? Or has she already done that, been there... and you've kept pushing, so she feels she needs to act that way?
I'm spending too much energy on managing my emotions and reactions to her. I need to direct my energy else where.
Spend some of it on not reacting in ways that need to be managed. Then spend the rest on having a good time for yourself.
We'll always be tied together as long as we are alive or both of the D's are alive. (birthdays, proms, graduations, etc.)The only thing signing the paper changes is her legal ability to sign a paper w/OM.
Of course you'll always have that tie through the children, and in time, you'll both be at their weddings and at the grandkids' birthday parties. I just meant that the D would sever legal ties.
By nature I am more conservative. I gave her my word to be true to her "'till death do us part." I pretty much meant the in sickness and in health part too, regardless of whether the sickness was spiritual, emotional or physical. From my perspective, she is emotionally and spiritually ill, but she does not share my perspective.
That's right, she doesn't. I fully understand your perspective here, though.
It's so common though that the WAS sees their reasons as circumstances that led them to break the relationship, and the LBS sees their circumstances as fighting for the marriage vows. I may not be wording this correctly, but it seems to me that both the WAS and the LBS are doing basically the same thing, rallying for what they personally want, even though the other partner doesn't want it.
If you put your head over the parapet now, it is likely to be shot down because you are responding to your needs and your feelings rather than those of your wife.
That's distorted, huh? IOW, she steps up ugly behaviors in order to make you not want her. A simple, civil, "Please stop. I don't feel the same way." won't do for her, huh? Or has she already done that, been there... and you've kept pushing, so she feels she needs to act that way?
Now I know how WAW felt about the get-well card. She returned it ripped into about 50 pieces, but who's counting. My thoughts on this? Well, I got the message and I get the message. At an earlier time in this sitch, my heart would have been over the parapet and gotten a hole in it, but now I take it as just a message and will use it to further help me drop the rope.
I really feel now that there is no way to save my M. I've come to understand that my perspective and WAW's perspective are 180's. I perceive that she needs psych help to get past her feelings about the way her parents brought her up and her feelings on her parents role-modeling marriage. From her perspective she already knows how to handle that and it is by moving on when you are unhappy. From my perspective, if she continues this thought/behavior pattern, she will find only superficial, temporary happiness in each relationship. That is my perspective.
Hey Jabez, I just wanted to stop in to say thanks for all the support you offer on my thread. I really appreciate it. I hope you're having a good weekend.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
DD's have off this week, so I took off from work as well. We're not planning anything special. Cleaned around the house went shoe shopping! Played ping-pong w/DD's. Took the dogs to the vet and such. I even worked out today. Just generally being together. I love being a dad!
After each crappy thing (my perception) that WAW does, it gets easier and easier to "drop the fricken rope". On Sunday something happened that reawakened the me in me. Someone expressed interest in me. Not as in a dating relationship, but I've been nursing her PC back to life and he wanted to repay me by taking me to a game. Let me restate that this is not a dating relationship, but it is a woman being my friend. It really boosted my PMA. It told me that there are women out there who, when the time is right, will want to be my friend and maybe more.
I've decided to start working on my "Dobson letter". I may post it here for review or I may have it reviewed by a DB coach. This will be my "Christmas gift" to WAW. I've read that men are not ready to move on (oh how I hate that phrase) until they find someone else. I really can't say that I've found someone else, but I have found that there will be someone else someday.
I feel so much different this Thanksgiving than last. Even tho' I don't have DD's this T'giving, I'm happier. I feel lighter. I'm out from under the cloud of worrying about all I say and do and if it will upset WAW. Each time I email to talk to her, I'm cheery and acting as if, but in between time, I'm not fretting and obsessing about the sitch.
Spiritually, I have really turned this sitch over to God. If He wants us to get back together, then He will make it happen. I'll be open to it. If He has other plans for me and I have other work to do for Him, then I'm willing to go along with that too. I'm thankful for my DD's, family, friends and DB friend who have been willing to read my vents and offer opinions and have been willing to consider opinions that I've posted.
I forgot to mention a few things. Two weeks ago after sighting the OM & WAW at DD's performance and then messing up my choir part, I felt so bad that I had to talk to the choir director. She is a friend of mine and used to (may still be) a friend of WAW. The choir director also knows OM and is best friends w/OM's sister. I apologized to the choir director and told her why I was so distracted. She accepted my apology and said that the decision of WAW & OM did not affect our friendship. I felt much better b/c I apologized. I did much better in choir this past week.
This past Fri PM, I told two other friends from church about WAW & OM. They had a relationship w/WAW and at one time w/OM. I just couldn't face my friends 2 or 3 times a week and not have them know the truth about what happened b/w WAW & me. We are still friends and I feel that the air is cleared b/w us.
I have no plans to tell anyone else about WAW & OM. After 15 months of separation, I don't think that I did it out of spite or to hurt WAW. I felt that by keeping the secret, I was enabling the lifestyle.
And so, early on this Thanksgiving morning, I am counting my blessings. My faith in God to lead me thru this, my circle of 5 who have supported me thru this (my Mom & Dad, 2 brothers and 1 friend). And especially D15 & D13 who make my life worth the living b/c they bring me such joy and sometimes challenge. And my friends who have stuck with me. And you, my DB friends who empathize with me, but do not pity me, by keeping me on the road to PMA and staying solution focused.
