ZenMan, so good to hear from you! What are you up to now?
I'll see what I muster up in the next few days or week. I'm a little hesitant to jump him, in the past I haven't had good response. Or, he'll respond with what he wants and I end up frustrated. And yes, then there is the distance and withdrawal after that. H seems to have willpower of steel.
So ZenMan, theoritically speaking, if your stbxw came and wanted to jump your bones, how would you react? What I'm asking is can you have sex with emotion? Is my H holding back from the physical pleasure of both of us because his emotion is mixed with sex? We used to talk about sex, making love, what it meant to us. He's had numerous partners prior to me, he wasn't explicit but did tell me that much of it was just sex. That was when he was high school/college, many years ago. I told him that for me it was the emotional attachment that made sex good, and he knows my buttons. Last year when I was trying anything, I asked for just sex, just for physical pleasure, it didn't happen. And now still, at the level we are currently at, it's mostly for him and he won't reciprocate.
Whew! all this talk, I get so anxious to see him. And then something goes all wrong before I even open my mouth and I cower in mind.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Quote: ZenMan, so good to hear from you! What are you up to now?
Sorry, I lost you in the new thread shuffle.
As for me: motorcycle, shoulder tattoo, riding horses, training for a triathalon, still boxing, 2nd round of NZ immigration papers pending. King of GAL still reigns. No DBing though and D is all but final at this point. We have both moved on. Oh well.
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So ZenMan, theoritically speaking, if your stbxw came and wanted to jump your bones, how would you react? What I'm asking is can you have sex with emotion?
I'd tell her to go jump in the river. I won't go into the reasons but I'm pretty angry at her and I don't know if I would even be able to perform "for old-time's sake". That's sorta graphic but it is the truth. Don't like her much anymore.
Of course, that doesn't help with any insight into *your* situation.
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Is my H holding back from the physical pleasure of both of us because his emotion is mixed with sex? We used to talk about sex, making love, what it meant to us. He's had numerous partners prior to me, he wasn't explicit but did tell me that much of it was just sex. That was when he was high school/college, many years ago. I told him that for me it was the emotional attachment that made sex good, and he knows my buttons. Last year when I was trying anything, I asked for just sex, just for physical pleasure, it didn't happen. And now still, at the level we are currently at, it's mostly for him and he won't reciprocate.
You've said that he is very physical but is also the strong-and-silent type. I would say that he's not good at the "just sex" thing but isn't that what he has been giving you for the last year or two? Sex w/ little intimacy? I don't know. It is hard to pin down.
I think he needs to get kicked in the head by one of the horses. Not seriosly injured...just needs to have his head rejiggered.
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Whew! all this talk, I get so anxious to see him. And then something goes all wrong before I even open my mouth and I cower in mind.
WCW, I'm not saying this to be mean. You don't *need* him. Everyone here knows what a great person you are. And you are obvisouly passionate about what you do and stay plenty active. I'm not saying that you should give up on him in any way but don't "cower". If that doofus doesn't come around then he will have really screwed up and someone is going to get a real catch. If you can internalize that...that you don't *need* him but you do *want* him...I'd bet that it would relax you quite a bit which would then help with your situation.
I don't know. All big talk from someone who isn't in your situation.
Thanks, Zman. Your input is helpful and means a bunch. Whether I agree or not, H feels that I was very hurtful to him in our 10 years prior to his unadmitted EA/PA, causing him so much pain that he shut down from me. IMO, he found OW first and then shut down from me, but he doesn't see it that way. I can point to the very week in Sept 03 he changed, and 9 months later the cell phone bills verified it. And if I caused so much pain, he should have sort of mentioned it during all those times we talked about us/marriage/goals/buying real estate/etc...... Old water, old bridges. But I do think that's why he won't let go with his feelings/sex/emotion, he thinks he'll get hurt again. HELLO! what does he think he's been doing to me for over TWO years! I have to learn to trust him, he has to let himself trust me.
Speaking of trust, the cell phone bill came in the mail today. Now, as background, H has been hiding cell phone bills for 18 months, intercepting them in the mail so I haven't seen one except for the time I told the mail lady to hold it at the post office and I'd pick it up. H was livid! He doesn't usually get the mail from the box as a matter of habit, but he ALWAYS intercepts the cell phone bill. Except today. I was just thinking about it on the drive home, figuring it was due to be here, and figured H would snag it again. And there it was! still in the box. So, is this a matter of trust? is he trusting me to see what I'll do with it? I have not opened it, it's laying on the table. I sure am curious, but I think I'll see what he does with it, if it's available for my viewing.
Mr King of GAL Zen, what kind of riding are you doing? English or Western? what kind of horse? are you wearing those tight little English riding pants?
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Quote: Thanks, Zman. Your input is helpful and means a bunch. Whether I agree or not, H feels that I was very hurtful to him in our 10 years prior to his unadmitted EA/PA, causing him so much pain that he shut down from me. IMO, he found OW first and then shut down from me, but he doesn't see it that way. I can point to the very week in Sept 03 he changed, and 9 months later the cell phone bills verified it. And if I caused so much pain, he should have sort of mentioned it during all those times we talked about us/marriage/goals/buying real estate/etc...... Old water, old bridges. But I do think that's why he won't let go with his feelings/sex/emotion, he thinks he'll get hurt again. HELLO! what does he think he's been doing to me for over TWO years! I have to learn to trust him, he has to let himself trust me.
Ah! Well, that is one spot where our situations are very similar. WAW says that Om came after the fact (but before the bomb) but that's a load. Like you, I can pinpoint the actual week. Actually, the actual weekend. I called her out on it probably six months later and she confirmed that that is when Om expressed a romantic interest.
So, being well down the D road now, what advice can I give about that...hmm...? Well, with my WAW, I am convinced that the reason that she never gave reconciliation a shot is that she was devastated over the affair...the idea that she was "that kind of person". She even said those words. Rather than face up to the affair and work through it, she just walked away from the marriage and most of her old friends as far as I can tell. Anyone who knew her "before".
So, what can I tell you about that? I was really hung up on the A for a long time. That probably didn't help her. I also made it too easy for her to transition to Om and new life by being too understanding, too patient, and leaving the house. Looking back, I should have kicked her out with an ultimatum right off the bat. You're already well beyond that point though.
I just don't have anything useful to add as far as that goes. :\
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it? I have not opened it, it's laying on the table. I sure am curious, but I think I'll see what he does with it, if it's available for my viewing.
That's probably the right thing to do, IMO. Don't give him a reason to think that you are snooping or even care to snoop.
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Mr King of GAL Zen, what kind of riding are you doing? English or Western? what kind of horse? are you wearing those tight little English riding pants?
Pfft. Dude, I have no idea. I have a friend who is into all of that and she (girl friend...two words...don't get excited) pretty much just points me toward a horse and I flop around on it. The saddles are big and have the knobby horn thing-a-ma-jigger so I guess that makes them Western. The horses...quarter horses perhaps? They are larger and bulkier than Thoroughbreds and Arabians. That's about all I know at this point.
However, I did get a personal tour of the Gainsborough Farm Stallion Complex (owned by a Sheik from Dubai) and it was really really cool.
That's not a hijack, I asked! and thanks again. It does sound like you're riding in a Western saddle on a Quarter horse. Flop around on it? oh my, poor horse. Oh! and I should feel bad for you too? This is where chin up heels down REALLY has meaning, and keep your back strait and shoulders back. Better posture will help you ride better.
Quote: Rather than face up to the affair and work through it, she just walked away from the marriage
I think that's the easy way out, that's what H was ready to do. I certainly didn't make anything easy for him to walk away, I did plenty things I'm not proud of, but I also felt I had to be pretty drastic for him to grasp that I wasn't letting go without my best effort. Maybe his past relatinships just faded away, but I didn't fade away, I stayed in his face, not always in the right way, but I've gotten better. He still won't face up to the affair, but we are slooowwwwwlllllyyyyy working thru things. Sometimes it feels like we're going about the same pace as a bear in the winter. But we're still both here, and although I'd rather be much further along, I have to hope that all this time getting there will be worth the rewards in the end.
You are right, I don't *need* him, except financially, but oh my do I *want* him! I want the man that made my life complete, that I didn't think was out there, that we would camp and snuggle together under the covers and eat granola bars by flashlight.
Guess I'm not very detached on the inside.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Quote: I know he had a blank spot in his day because one of his appts moved to Tuesday, he's stuffed, it's OW's birthday, he wanted to know where I was and even called to find out. H and OW had lunch together, which is why he's stuffed.
Now you know I love you but, CUT THAT SH^T OUT!
And...
A) Do NOT open the phone bill
B) JUMP HIM! If he recoils in horror, laugh in his face! I mean it. You can go off and cry later if you need to, but I am thinking that if you need a hug and kiss, take them but don't ask for them.
Ah! Well, that is one spot where our situations are very similar. WAW says that Om came after the fact (but before the bomb) but that's a load. Like you, I can pinpoint the actual week
Isn't it funny how we can "tell" when it started? My H was like your, WCW, saying how I hurt him so much by being "cold" that he had to turn away. (Uh, cold or busy with house, kids, dogs, and everything he didn't feel like doing?) And like both of you, I can pinpoint when it started. I had a Christmas party at my house, OW and her H were one of the couples invited. I saw a look in her eyes that night as she looked around at what I had..."Oh, I want HER life". I knew, that very night, that she was going to start going after my H. Within 3 months, my H was starting to pick fights and get restless, and OW was his good "friend".
Little did she know I planned to take MY life with me. It will be quite awhile before H can afford to give her what we had together! (well, for me too, but at least she doesn't have it)
But WCW, it sounds like things are going in the right direction for you! I'm really happy for you - now the hard part is patience!
WCW you are doing so well, hang on the best parts a little longer. It seems you are heading in the right direction. Thanks for keeping up with my sitch.
Quote: Now you know I love you but, CUT THAT SH^T OUT!
Oh thank you, bigAl, it's been so long since I've heard those magic words. And yes, I know! I have to learn to trust again. I want to so bad, I want my world to be real again and I want to believe and feel secure in my beliefs. Somedays are a like Humpty Dumpty, all the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put it back together again. But I refuse to think that way, more like the little train guy - I think I can, I think I can..........
Quote: I saw a look in her eyes. Within 3 months, my H was starting to pick fights and get restless, and OW was his good "friend".
Wow, VJ, ditto that! Of course, H said I was the one picking fights. OW used to bring her horse over, and I was always uncomfortable with the air between her and H. Couldn't label it anyway other than that. Until.........SHAzam!Bam!POW!
For anyone looking for the update on jumping bones, here it is, but don't get your palms sweaty. I was expecting H home about 6pm last night, not sure why, just from some phone conversations he had the night before. 6:30, no H, and I wasn't surprised, I had the thoughts all day that this was an OW/FF day, Thursdays are usual business for them. Got a txt from H right after those insinuating accusations bouncing in my head, he was at his last appt and gave me quick update. That is one of the sweetest things he has done for me in quite a while. I don't know if he even realizes how much it meant to me, but I did reply with a thanks.
He got home after 8pm, I was still outside, and when I did get in the house he was grubbing up some food. When he was finished with that, I asked if he wanted some popcorn. So I made a bowl of popcorn, that's the only way I could figure to sit next to him and share from the bowl. But he sat as far away as possible on a 2 person couch and then leaned over the arm to be even further. And as soon as popcorn was gone, he was up - doing dishes! cleaning up the kitchen! It was great that he was, but he almost never does! Well, at least now I know how to get him to do that stuff. I went to bed, feeling pretty put out but I figured that was better than pouting about it.
Woke up early today, flipped the TV on while I waited for the alarm to go off. Doesn't that sound silly? H came down the hall and into the bedroom, stood there for a minute, I flipped the covers back, and he got in. Turned over for a back rub, and then returned the favor. And then, yes ! It wasn't all passion and kisses, but it was more for two of us than just for him. By then I was late......rush thru the shower, grab stuff, head out the door. (I did notice the cell phone bill was still unopened on the table.) Busy day at work, but I did call for a model number on our horse trailer so I could get some parts we need, we chatted a few minutes.
And speaking of kisses, there was a song playing on the radio called Shut up and Kiss Me. H knows the song, we used to joke about it. I sent him a txt that it was on and he should do what it says. No response, but I didn't expect one. Light hearted, teasing, slow pursuit.
Patience. If I was a doctor at least I'd be getting paid for my patients.
No big plans this weekend for once, weather should be great, maybe we can get some things done around home before winter sets in. I'll make more popcorn and threaten to sit close! that'll motivate him!
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
And yes, then there is the distance and withdrawal after that. H seems to have willpower of steel.
No DBing though and D is all but final at this point. We have both moved on. Oh well. 
! It wasn't all passion and kisses, but it was more for two of us than just for him. By then I was late......rush thru the shower, grab stuff, head out the door. (I did notice the cell phone bill was still unopened on the table.) Busy day at work, but I did call for a model number on our horse trailer so I could get some parts we need, we chatted a few minutes. 