I do think that the W and the C hit it off really well on the first MC session I bet they did. But no, you are right, your W needs to have a good R with the C if you want progress. I think my wife needs C as much as me Absolutely. Does she want it as much as you? Or are you sort of dragging her along? I am sure your C LOVED YOU!!!! How could he/she not? Lol Yes, I'm sure he did, especially considering H baled on the last session and C told me I was basically doing the right things and put in all the effort I could. Enough was enough at the time.
I am remembering a lot of fantasizing about other women in the months leading up to this summer and the EA. Strange that I forgot all about that until now. That's a red flag that there is something detrimental going on in the M. A little fantasy is normal but I was doing it A LOT. Maybe you were too. Interesting that you suppressed it. I was always very conscious of it. I have so much respect for social scientists, there are really no rules that can be universally applied. Very true Whenever I hear one of my students saying "I'm getting married" I have to bite my tongue from giving lots of dire warnings and saying "boy are you in for it." DOH! I do that all the time! Are you sure we're not the same person
Quote: "Blackfoot, when you said "don't internalize it," that was exactly right, too." See this is where I'm having some trouble collating everyone's points. It seems that some are saying don't let it out, hide your feelings, and turn the situation around to something positive (do a 180). While on the other hand you are not supposed to internalize things. Either I am just not getting it (99% probability) or there is a contradiction here.
By "don't internize" I took blackfoot to mean, "don't necessarily take her words to heart." That did NOT mean keep your feelings inside. Mrs NOP put it well (also way back yonder)-- listen, pay attention, but don't assume every little thing is written in concrete. People's moods change. "Don't internalize" in this context means "don't assume every little comment, mood, remark is being handed down in tablets of stone from the mountaintop."
Your wife has changed since taking on the role of motherhood. You yourself while trying to accept these changes have had a hard time adjusting to some of them. She will also learn to accept and adjust. You have had 4 years to do so she has had a few weeks you might just want to give her a little time.
I was referring to the amount of time you have had to accept and adjust to the changes in her since she has taken on the role of motherhood vs the amount of time that she has had to adjust and accept the changes within you. And trying to point out she may need some more time.
"I've always has a MFM fantasy." Well, the only problem there is that blackfoot would probably spend the whole time kicking my a$$ if we ever got in the same room.
(From the other post) Possessivness implies an EC So true. Most people know intuitively that jealousy can be a real killer if there is too much of it. But I'll bet most people don't think that too little of it can be bad. I know I'm not supposed to be thinking of OW too much, but it does make a good point. I was shocked one time when she started acting all jealous after she saw me talking and carrying on with another woman in the group. Later, she starting talking and carrying on with another guy in the group, and looked pleased with herself when I started joking around about kicking his butt. Do women like the idea of men fighting over them? I guess it makes you feel desired/wanted. You know, the W has never expressed jealousy toward me and I probably have never expressed it to her. Is it possible we were too comfortable and felt too safe with each other. Safe is a good thing in general, but it doesn't always inspire passion. Of course OW also went on and on sometimes about how one of the things she really liked about me was that she felt safe with me because she knew I wouldn't try to cross THE boundary. Ack, just when I think I've figured something out, there is always a kicker.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"I bet they did." I know what you are thinking and I have thought the same thing. Believe me if the MC sessions just end up being validate W and beat-down Glob's sex drive, I'll move on. I know I need some beating-down on several issues, but there is a limit.
"Does she want it as much as you? Or are you sort of dragging her along? Definitely somewhere in-between. I think she wouldn't go if I didn't ask her too, but she isn't digging in her heels.
"Enough was enough at the time." Was that before the separation that H bailed on the C? I know I should read back over your old posts, but I'm a lazy sonofagun.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"By "don't internize" I took blackfoot to mean, "don't necessarily take her words to heart." That did NOT mean keep your feelings inside. Mrs NOP put it well (also way back yonder)-- listen, pay attention, but don't assume every little thing is written in concrete. People's moods change. "Don't internalize" in this context means "don't assume every little comment, mood, remark is being handed down in tablets of stone from the mountaintop.""
MUCH clearer now. Thanks Lillie. I personally like Mel Brooks' version of the handing down of the commandments ("History of the World part I ).
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Gotcha. I was just confused about the 4 years comment. Our twin daughters are 2 years old. The squared in D2^2 is for the number of daughters not the age.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
In reference to your discussions about jealousy, this story might appeal to you since it has a scientific basis. Several years ago my brother’s wife died of AIDS, but several years before that, they were having their marital problems. She had major conflicts with my mom, but she was also very screwed up herself. She seemed to like to cause fights just to have my brother rush to her rescue. The sad part is she did everything in her power to split our family.
This reminded my dad about a book he had read by someone named Lorenz(sp) who studied geese. Geese bond for life. A female was observed to wander off from her mate to another male and start up some kind of ruckus. Her mate would then come squawking over to defend the female and chase off the other male. The two would then return to where they came, talking up a storm and solidifying their bond. Then after a while, the female would start up again. So maybe this need for some healthy jealousy to confirm the bond still exists is actually hard wired into the female.
So maybe this need for some healthy jealousy to confirm the bond still exists is actually hard wired into the female Probably both males and females I would think to some degree. Also regarding the Lorenz study, the baby geese (who were probably left behind while the parents were out "causing a ruckus") were known to imprint onto any object (not just the mother) as babies. You know the babies tend to follow their mother around in a single line? Lorenz wanted to know if that was nature (biological) or (nurture) a learned behvior. He found that the goslings have in inborn tendency to follow but that they will follow any moving, noisy object there at the right time. Some of the goslings even imprinted onto him and followed him around as the "mommy". So if the mother is "out to lunch", anyone will do at the time. So is there imprinting in humans"? Not clear. We certainly form human bonds with our main caretakers as infants/toddlers but humans are also very flexible and do not need to be raised by the mother herself. Not sure how all of this relates to the jealousy commentary but thought I'd share. Actually, you could extrapolate some of these findings and say that we as sexual beings "imprint" onto our mates and do not like it when another male/female tries to get in their personal space. Thus the jealousy. So it could be partly biological. Why are some people more jealous than others? Hmm.. That part is probably learned through life experiences. And why do some R/M have a lack of jealousy while others are full of jealousy? I think it does go back to EC. A healthy amount of jealousy solidifies the bonds of the R as you have stated. Geez, it's Saturday morning. I'm hurting my brain Cobra. I better move over to Globule's post now for some light-hearted banter, lol. Love the way you think though. Thanks for sharing.
and C told me I was basically doing the right things and put in all the effort I could. Enough was enough at the time. 
Very true 
