I do not think getting the affection from your spouse is unattainable, unless one or either of you have some medical condition or deeper psychosis. I don’t know enough about you husband, but his actions could be due to many other problems. And, I’m not saying either of you are in MLC. But some of the elements underpinning MLC seem to run into many other types of relationship problems. They just seem to be the most pronounced in MLC, and therefore in some ways, studying MLC makes a good learning platform, hence my reference to it.
I’m not sure about your sex addiction part. You say you would like 4 times per week or more. I think this might be the average desired by men, but my feeling is most women aren’t that high. With men who are sex-starved, they may want it everyday, but once this need has been satiated, their drive slows to a more “normal” level. Possibly you just have pent up demand that will lessen after a week or two of high frequency sex. Or perhaps you do have some mild form of addiction, possibly used as a wall to block out other emotions?
I do not think what you want is difficult for most men her to achieve, in fact, I think they would love this. But LD men generally are not visiting this website, so the answers you get will likely be biased.
Here is another angle, a topic I found interesting and made comments about in other threads. It is from the book "Facing Love Addiction: Giving Yourself the Power to Change the Way You Love --The Love Connection to Codependence" by Pia Mellody. Here's a website that refers to her work:
Both talk about a special subset of codependence they call the “Love Addict” and the “Love Avoider”. These two are responses to different childhood problems of abandonment. Could your longing for your husband also include this need for affirmation from him (implying you are the love addict), or do you think it is only biological? He on the other hand sounds like an avoider (like many men). The theory is that this too is a defense mechanism, out of fear on engulfment. This means that as an “abandoned” child, a dominant figure overloaded the child with too much emotional responsibility and stress. So withdrawing becomes the natural reaction.
But love avoiders will experience abandonment fears if the love addict stops pursuing them. This seems so contrary to the image they put forth. The avoider will also divert from the addict by himself becoming addicted to something else, like the kids, work or hobbies.
Does your husband fit this in any way? If so, I would think he needs to work through some issues but I do not think meeting your objectives is completely unattainable for him.
Hi Cobra, I'm not sure why a sex addiction is different if you are a woman vs. a man? Surely frequency preference does not an addict make.
My understanding was that addicts are willing to do dangerous things in order to get their fix. I can tell you that the most dangerous thing I've done today is voluntarily go into my baby's room after her diaper leaked and she soiled everything in her crib. I don't do outlandish things where sex is concerned. Period.
So I don't know about addiction, based solely on the fact that I like it more than "most women".
Quote: Possibly you just have pent up demand that will lessen after a week or two of high frequency sex.
I can tell you from past experience that this doesn't lessen my need. I seem to have a baseline level of desire and it either goes slightly up or slightly down, based on whether I am in love or not.
Quote: Could your longing for your husband also include this need for affirmation from him
Now this spoke to me....but don't we ALL want affirmation from our spouses? Is it really that weird? Do I need more affirmation from him than what is 'normal'? I don't know. I can assure you, though, that I get LESS than what is considered 'normal' so it could be that I am just focusing on the one thing that is missing in our relationship. (which is a normal thing to do--focus on what you are missing, just ask any starving person what they are thinking of)
Quote: But love avoiders will experience abandonment fears if the love addict stops pursuing them. This seems so contrary to the image they put forth. The avoider will also divert from the addict by himself becoming addicted to something else, like the kids, work or hobbies.
This was good stuff. I can see my husband in parts of this. He is quite obssessed with our religion, so he definitely has some of those qualities.
I looked up the links and found the Peabody article very disturbing. Codependent (me) marries Narcissistic (W).
Quote: Codependent Love Addicts (CLAs) are the most widely recognized. They fit a pretty standard profile. Most of them suffer from low self-esteem and have a certain predictable way of thinking, feeling and behaving. This means that from a place of insecurity and low self-esteem, they try desperately to hold on to the people they are addicted to using codependent behavior. This includes enabling, rescuing, caretaking, passive-aggressive controlling, and accepting neglect or abuse. In general, CLAs will do anything to “take care” of their partners in the hope that they will not leave—or that someday they will reciprocate.
Narcissistic Love Addicts (NLAs) use dominance, seduction and withholding to control their partners. Unlike codependents, who accept a lot of discomfort, narcissists won’t put up with anything that interferes with their happiness. They are self-absorbed and their low self-esteem is masked by their grandiosity. Furthermore, rather than seeming to obsess about the relationship, NLAs appear aloof and unconcerned. They do not appear to be addicted at all. Rarely do you even know that NLAs are hooked until you try to leave them. Then they will no longer be aloof and uncaring. They will panic and use anything at their disposal to hold on to the relationship—including violence. Many professionals have rejected the idea that narcissists can be love addicts. This may be because they rarely come in for treatment. However, if you have ever seen how some narcissists react to perceived or real abandonment, you will see that they are indeed “hooked.”
Narcissists and Codependents: It is very common for love addicts to end up in relationships with other love addicts. The most common kind of love-addicted couple is, as you might have guessed, the codependent and the narcissist. In the beginning, narcissists are often seductive. After they have hooked their codependent partners, however, they change.
Conclusion: The Importance of All This: If all this seems complicated it is. And, to be honest, the only reason it is important is because it makes a difference when it comes to treatment. Codependent love addicts, for instance, need a boost in self-esteem and self-acceptance. They must learn to think better of themselves. Narcissistic love addicts, on the other hand, use grandiosity to bolster their low self-esteem and need to come down to earth. They need to learn some humility and how to become “unselfish.”
What bothered me most of all is that this marriage is turning out so much like marriage #1. Just that the narcissist I married this time has different behaviors.
Does anyone here want to know cobra's background? I'm a little curious.
I don’t think you need to do something dangerous to be considered an addict. Excessive shopping can be an addiction but it is not dangerous (depending on how you define dangerous. It could be to your financial health). I think the definition of addiction is that it is self medication used as an escape mechanism from something. Sex addict do fit this term. But I was not sure if yours was emotionally based (in which I think you might look into it) or biologically based (which can’t be changed without meds), assuming you want to change it at all (if you were my wife I certainly wouldn’t want you to change).
Of course we all want affirmation from our spouses. What I meant is that a sex addict (not saying you are one) is really trying to fill an emotional void, but does not realize it. They only know sex blocks the pain, makes them feel better and they want it more and more. Just like any other addiction.
So until you’ve explored all possibilities, I wouldn’t be so willing to throw in the towel just yet on getting more intimacy. And if your husband is obsessed with his religion, there could be a whole drawer full of guilt issues at play. My personal feeling is that some western religions can be far too controlling, shaming and closed to different behaviors. This can be especially true if there are other problems involved, like an abusive parent. This can trigger major guilt issues or many other types of behavioral problems. Sexual problems are not uncommon. I have seen this subject mentioned many times in self-help books.
Hairdog,
I am not a counselor, a therapist or have training in psychology. I am a treasury director with a global company. I have an undergraduate degree in economics and a masters degree in agricultural economics, both from major state universities. I started school in pre-med in the honors program. Most of my work is in finance and investments.
I grew up under a domineering mother, a passive father and have a very assertive wife who has major abandonment issues with her family, to which she reacts strongly. I have spent a small fortune going to counseling for over two years, but it has helped both of us. We see an IMAGO therapist and we both like the approach. (The traditional approach to finger pointing, confronting your parents, feeling your inner child, just doesn’t appeal to me.) I am very analytical but tend to be compromising by nature and feel that I can see both sides of an argument better than most. I am not an aggressive personality type and am more of an introvert, but I don’t like to be pushed around or bullied.
I have done a lot of research and reading on relationship issues (as have my wife, who is a psychology major) and have a whole stack of books still pending. I am 46, wife is 44. We have three kids – D14, D12 & S8. I try to be very involved with my kids. We all take taekwondo lessons together (I’m going to try my hand in a full contact TKD tournament next weekend, with the kids). The girls also take volleyball and tennis. All are straight A students.
Let me ask you this: Why would you suggest I look into sex addiction? What in my writings has led you to believe that this could be an issue?
When I want sex it is for two reasons: Because I physically need it and/or I love my H and want to be close to him. The order in which I wrote that has no significance, incidentally.
There is no pain in my life, with the exception of the pain caused by our mismatched libidos. I am an enneagram type 7 and usually feel happy and cheerful.
Oh and western religion is shaming and closed to different behaviors. Ya don't say.
Quote: But I was not sure if yours was emotionally based (in which I think you might look into it) or biologically based (which can’t be changed without meds), assuming you want to change it at all (if you were my wife I certainly wouldn’t want you to change).
Heck no I don't want to change. Why should I? I've been this way as long as I can remember and I quite like myself. I am attempting to reshape my marital expectations so that they better fit with my spouses, but at my core I will always think that wanting sex 4 times per week is fine and dandy and he is crazy for not jumping all over that.
Bringing up sexual addiction was due to what I said earlier. There are plenty of cases like I described. That doesn’t mean you are one, but those who are addicted like this don’t even know it. You seem aware enough, by your posting on this board, but sometimes even the obvious eludes us. It was just a thought that occurred to me that I thought I would run by you, that’s all.
I really can’t disagree with anything you say. But you two are unhappy and you would like that to improve. Due to my background, I tend to always look at myself first before the other person. So if you have something you can fix, then do it. It will lessen his defense against you.
By the way, what did you mean by “Oh and western religion is shaming and closed to different behaviors. Ya don't say.”? It is not offensive to me in the least, but there seems to be more behind that statement.
