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Chrissy,

I want to post to you on your sitch. I have a ton to comment on. But when I go to start typing my mind goes blank, and I struggle. Thats about me.

I read your actions and see the underlying reasons for them are much like my own, I just dont see that you have rationalized it like I have, or maybe dont see it clearly as I do, though I find that hard to believe. I think your self awareness is high, and so I wonder about the contradictions. Do you belive them or do you wish to be called on them.

I also dont want to hear what I have to say. But thats too much about me and this is your thread.

So I have been procrastinating, and taking the easy threads. Or waiting for you to post and responding limitedly. Despite my intention to 'throw some things at you'. Got your glove on?

You said your H reads here occasionally. I hope he reads thru your posts in order to understand you better and not take the hurtful things you say personnally. You have left the keys to your heart scattered all thruout your posts, it would take a lot of keys to get to your heart, its a hidden trail of sorts, but your bluntness could leave him blind to them because of his hurt feelings.

I am not suggesting you change your posting style at all.

I also see how your needs, and your 'testing' could appear to be a never ending cycle and cause their own failure.

so on to the easy part.

No I have alot of skill and practice with not allowing men to control me. Which makes it a game to a man and the hunt is on. Somewhere in the game the tables seem to turn and I am the one holding the controll over them in the end.

If you play these semantical games with ME these convos are going to be a useless endeavor. You know as well as I that the control flips as soon as the HUNT IS ON. Which is immediate in most cases, isnt it.

You know you are right on this also
Ok. Thats better. Of course I know I am right.
So you know that it is self protecting, which means done out of fear, and has pros and cons. At work knock yourself out and have fun with it. At home the cons are heavy, and hurtful to your R.

So maybe as you keep trying to point out to me my personality out powers/over powers his. Thus keeping me in control.

Your fear keeps you needing to be in control. And I will wager the life of my former best friend, that you came into this R with a lot more R experience then he did. ( never wager what you are not willing to lose.) Your life experiences and attributes has given you the means and skills to out wit him. To the detriment of your M.

if being in charge is really a part of my nature to the point it

its part of your nature because it keeps you from needing anyone, and susceptible to being vulnerable or hurt. Which you have been to the nth degree more then once.
But the truth is you are vulnerable, and stuffing it when you are hurt emotionally, being so detached is bad for the R and not truthful. For example, you made light of the fact that OW was in your house while you were gone. It irritated you because H found someone else to take care of things, instead of doing it himself. You wouldnt admit to jealously though. Oh no Chrissy is above that. This was a perfectly acceptable time to be jealous, show it in a healthy way and allow you H to see that what he does has some affect on you.

Apparent indifference is death to a R. At least emotional reactions show something. I am currently killing all chances with my x, by using Indifference. I was gracious, compassionate, wished her happiness, hope things work out for her, listened to her for 3 hours but she couldnt get a reaction out of me if she hooked me up to high voltage. and she has been trying, alot. If she had WA the second time without resuming A it would be different. She asks if I have been dating, how far I have gone, seems almost desperate that I have been out. talks about friends who are 'even' and stayed together because of this. I just say adultery is abhorrent to me and am waiting for my piece of paper. Since there is A, I can kill it if I want to. and use her Reactions to my actions to do it.
But truth be told every time I do it, I smash my own heart with a sledgehammer.

And this is what I mean by being R 'experts'. We know by education, experience and innate skill how to make the opposite sex tick, tock. Is it put to good use, in a healthy way or are you devising your own R failure?
Your H goes thru intimacy, conflict and withdrawal. Men have deep feelings also, though you want us to control them. Do you make this easy or hard?

I do not purposely test him that is his game not mine. Dealing with me may soemtimes put him to the test though
I have never said it was purposeful on a womans part or your part. But women are 'wired' to test us constantly as men allready. Your life experiences sharpened that skill immensely. Marriage is the struggle against our innate tendancies. stop testing your H so much. Fight your tendancies and maybe/likely his will subside. Especially since you look at it for all intensive purposes as an arranged marriage anyways. And you see his 'tests' of course. They are probably elementary to you. But do you use them to keep yourself in control or to engender good feelings in him and security in the R?

I am a arousal then desire person
I wont argue, but I will cock my eybrow and grunt. Maybe in this R. Maybe because of the way things are currently.

I have told him that I want him to be more satisfied that I do this for him yeah I would say he is aware of it.
Man I would be pissed and not wanting to have sex either. Id be like 'Fine I am going to the strip club' oh wait I did that, thats why I am here.....


I did not feel it wronge to take advantage of sexuality and mens own knack for thinking with the wronge body part for self gain. Dealing with these type of men did by all means leave a bad taste in my mouth

This is contradictory and exactly what I was talking about. They are not thinking with the wrong body part, anymore then women are 'not thinking' when I come in and start hitting their attraction sequence. We are each coded a certain way, there is nothing we can do about it.
Maliciously using it, expecting them to be above attraction and not to respond to what is in us to perpetuate the species, is hypocritical. I may not be affected by what a woman is, but I am subject to male drives. Why shouldnt she be subject to hers?

Using it in a negative way, like manipulation, self gratification, or dishonestly, hurts the negative user in the long run.

I doubt there are many guys that could pass your tests long term Chrissy

I am usually the one who gets bored and leaves the relationship.

ROFLMAO. You proved -not disproved- my comment with this statement. They are constantly chasing you, you are testing them to see if they will 'be a man' -whatever that means in a womans head (teach me please ) and they fail, so you get bored, have no attraction, and move on.


But once something is no longer challenging I have a hard time wanting to continue bothering with it

I know what you meant but here is a perception twist for you. There is nothing more challanging then a long term passionate R.

BF I guess you are right you men are such simple creatures

My head is big enough allready.

Seriously that is a good thing as women arent to handy with complex subjects.

blackfoot:

Great post! There is a lot in there that can be applied to my own wife. Now if I only knew how to handle all the cr#p.

BF,

I loved your opening on this post.
I actually do not respond to anything you write straight off. I always read them think I don't know if I want to answer that. Sometimes your questions are in statememts that really say nothing the questions are hidden in words. Of course I then end up coming back and answering Why? Easy answer.
Because at times I feel you are the male version of myself. Truthful answer You see things that I only elude to not out of deception but caution.(for lack of better words). Sometimes I am not even aware of it until you call me on it. In your subtle way.

I am the type of person who will talk about just about anything. I am a open book when it comes to my short comings and faults. There is only one thing in my life I ever wanted that I could not have. And only one secret that I refuse to share with anyone. Yet I have this sinking feeling you know. That is a little disarming. Maybe I am wronge time will tell.

I hope he reads thru your posts in order to understand you better and not take the hurtful things you say personnally

No it is more of a control thing. My H does not believe I or any married person should be allowed privacy of any sort.
And truthfully the times I know for sure he has read on this website. I have been around and he reads something that I read and found funny or informational. There have been a few times I think he has read here because of something he says that relates to something that I have posted.

I really do not feel I am being cutting towards him. I own up to my own mistakes. There have been a few vent sessions. But most things he is aware of how I feel on because I am not one to hold back. He may not always agree with my view of things. Nor do I his. But we are both pretty aware of the others feelings on the sitch. After my sickness and major depression and wanting out of this marriage. I decided it was healthier for me to just say it then hold it in. There are some things I do not say and I really try not to say spur of the moment things. Example my comment on him acting like a woman. I do tend to hold these things in if I catch myself before hand. I do fall off the not taking away all of his self confidence wagon sometimes though and out it comes. But I usually have to be pushed in that direction to the point of enough is enough.

but your bluntness

Believe it or not I have toned this down majorly in the last 8 years. Being blunt has many pro's and con's. In the work force I learned being blunt with someone with low self esteem/ not willing to take self responsibility could become problematic if they were not use to this form of mannorism coupled with the fact I speak in flat monotones and show little expression in my eyes. So I learned to hop around the bush to get to the carrot.(But I still take the shortest route there). I hate this approach it is not natural to me. I feel more comfortable just saying what I mean.
When I first came to this board GEL use to lay it on the line to me. And I really respected her for that.

If you play these semantical games with ME these convos are going to be a useless endeavor.

Point scored for BF. Though from earlier post I thought you enjoyed these games. A word has so many different interpretations does it not?

Which is immediate in most cases, isnt it.

Point taken.

So you know that it is self protecting, which means done out of fear,

If I concede and say it is fear that is all well and fine. But to change the behavior I need to recognize the fear.
And I am not afraid of not being in a relationship nor of supporting myself and my children. So what is the fear?

And I will wager the life of my former best friend, that you came into this R with a lot more R experience then he did.

True I met my H when he was 19 I was 25. He had never been in much of a long term relationship. Nor did he have alot of girlfriends in HS. And his sexual experiences pretty much none.

Well those were the easy ones to respond to now here comes the ones that made me say urgh.


its part of your nature because it keeps you from needing anyone, and susceptible to being vulnerable or hurt

Stop it!. Okay I have been looking for answers to why I would detach (as sub consiously as it may happen) from people like my daughter whom I love dearly and sitch like her moving out. For you to just lay it out there so plainly and simply makes it pretty hard to say No I do not think that is why. My problem is like with my daughter I do not want to detach myself yet it is just like I go into shut down mode like a battery going dead. How do you stop this from happening? Having the ability to detach is great in some circumstances but like with my daughter it is only going to bring on more pain by doing so( losing the close bond we have).

Which you have been to the nth degree more then once

I refuse to play the victim or act victimized so if we are speaking in this relationship and in matters involving my step dad I argee. Other people and the pain that they have caused me are really not big issues with me I feel more they were opportunitys for growth which I did learn and grow from. Life is full of valuable lessons good and bad.

For example, you made light of the fact that OW was in your house while you were gone. It irritated you because H found someone else to take care of things, instead of doing it himself.

Agreed. I thought it as taking the easy way out. Certain things about my H really bother me. One being his unwillingness to learn how to take care of things and make decisions. His allowing someone else to take care of things in my absense instead of taking charge of them himself made me realize if I were to die he would grab the first person and throw them in charge to avoid doing it himself and my kids could be raised by the wicked witch of the west and treated terrible for no other reason then his laziness. He is capable of doing it if he would put in the effort.

You wouldnt admit to jealously though.

Urgh big time!. Okay I will admit to jealousy when it comes to someone else was trying to take on my role with my kids when H had them. I am not one who deals well with the thought of someone trying to take over my role as mom with my kids. Truthfully the emotions that come with that is I will ripe your heart out through your throat if you fcuk with my kids.
I will admit to anger at someone coming into my house with my belongings and trying to take over as if it were theres.
Now understand this house and every house we have ever lived in is one you can walk into and know me. Everything about it is me. From what hangs on the walls the colors of the walls. It is all me and my personality.(at its best mind you).Some one who comes into my home is almost entering a view of my soul. For them to try to take over that as if it were there own is almost a intrusion of my being. Just like the tatoo on my back my house and its belongings tell a story of me and who and what I am and believe in. This is very personal to me.(with the exception of my childrens rooms every room in my house reflects a different aspect of my personality).My home is my castle.(note home not house she could have had that I am not that found of it).

Oh no Chrissy is above that.

Urgh again. I detest jealousy in a relationship. Yes I think of it as being weak if I am jealous and I have been at the blunt of my H and his unwarrented jealousy so often that even the mear thought of being jealous is enough to turn my stomach.

This was a perfectly acceptable time to be jealous, show it in a healthy way and allow you H to see that what he does has some affect on you.

This may be true. At the time though I was so desperate for some peace of mind and was so fed up with everything I almost felt not only self loathing for allowing myself to get there I felt almost blind hatred for my H. Jealousy would never have registered with me.
I did try to act jealous to give H a dose of his own medicine. I doubt I was very convincing though.

I am currently killing all chances with my x, by using Indifference. I was gracious, compassionate, wished her happiness, hope things work out for her,

Sadly half of you truely means this and the other half is not so sincere. Odd how with our mouths we can do this with the ones we truely love will inside we feel sometimes at war with our selfs and other times as if a part of us is tired and sleeping in the cold.
The song Haunted best describes this.


Your H goes thru intimacy, conflict and withdrawal. Men have deep feelings also, though you want us to control them. Do you make this easy or hard?

My H seldom withdrawls from me. A arguement yes he says he is sorry often afterwards if the arguement stays between us for a day or so.(and before you ask no I do not).

Men do have deep feelings. I actually like that. Well most of feelings not jealousy or controlling behavior that stems from them. But I think it is the way that a man or to me anyone shows them more then wanting them to control there feelings that sets the grounds for how receptive I am of anothers feelings and dealing with them. On occassion my H has cried not often though. I am fine with that. Now if he cried at the drop of a hat. Oh I would not deal well with it. But I do not deal well with woman that cry at the drop of a hat either.
I find it uncomfortable to be around someone who cries easily. S10 will cry if I hurt his feelings or if he truely wants something and is told no.(not spoiled cry) Because it hurts his feelings/ dissapoints him. His feeling get hurt very easy by me. If he feels I am slightly upset with him he cries. I mean simple things like if he cleans his room and I tell him he needs to go back and clean something up better it hurts his feelings.
Mind you he is a exceptional child and I always keep that in mind in the mannor I use to relate to him. But it blows my mind sometimes and want to exit the situation because I don't know how to deal with his crying over little things.

When my H's feelings are hurt or he is dissapointed I am okay and receptive to it may even try to avoid doing whatever it was in the future. If he just simply states it as such. You know this hurt my feelings or I was really dissapointed that you did not do this. Now if he pouts I think he is childish and get pissy. If he becomes explosive I either fight fire with fire or ignore him.

The touch overly affectionate thing is what I have problems with the most. I don't mind him holding my hand laying his hand on my leg. Snuggling up to me. But he strokes me all the time. What am I a freakin cat! I don't need petted nor do I want to be. That one just makes me bite my lip and pray his hands get a cramp. And I have told him over and over and over to please cut back on it.
Which inspires him to increase the amount instead. And I am not going into the out of the blue crotch or breast gropes. BTDT already.

But women are 'wired' to test us constantly as men allready.

Gonna have to throw me a bone on this one. Examples of this please. I cannot use them constructivly if I am not aware of what is a test.

But do you use them to keep yourself in control or to engender good feelings in him and security in the R?

His test that he is always trying to put me through. Oh they are not conducive to any form of good feelings or security. I actually view them as a irritant a large majority of the time and end up falling off the wagon of good behavior after so much of it. As stated earlier.

I am a arousal then desire person
I wont argue, but I will cock my eybrow and grunt

Thats a score two more points for BF and a good chuckle.

Man I would be pissed and not wanting to have sex either.

Now wait a minute I have spent months reading and responding to post on who important it is for the HD to feel that the LD is at least trying to make them happy.
That they want to know that there needs matter to there spouse and knowing there spouses are putting a effort into speaking there LL.
Now the fact that I am trying to show and tell him that I am so hell bent on keeping pace and not backsliding with the monthly min is something I am doing to make him more fufilled is something that should piss him off.
Now wait a cotton picking minute correct me if I am wrong(like you would not even if I did not invite you to) But I thought that was what this whole identifying your spouses love language and learning how to speak to them in it even if it was not your LL was about. You know filling there love tank.

They are not thinking with the wrong body part,

Really the man who's car is about to be repossed and water has been shut off who comes in the bar and leaves a waitress $50.00 for serving him a few beers and strutting her stuff and giving him a smile or two is not thinking with there wrong body part. Or how about the one who hires the 19 year old for a job she is not qualified for and puts a company's money/client relations and his own respect level in the company in jeapardy all because he thinks she is hot and hopes he might score a piece of azz. He is not thinking with the wrong body part? Lets see how about the man that goes to the strip club and gets so entranced with a stripper he mortgages his home to buy her one only to have her and her boyfriend move into it. Was he thinking with the right body part?

I don't think so. Even if you do.
Now less the stripper sitch do I feel it is wrong for a woman to take advantage of these men. Nope. If you cannot pay your bills and your gonna pay $50.00 for a smile your bad. If you hire someone in hopes of getting a piece of azz and they are a bumbling idiot and you loose your job or become the company laughing stock for using such misjudgement again your bad.

These are the type of men that have caused me negative views of men. Not all men are like this but there are more then a few out there.

you are testing them to see if they will 'be a man' -whatever that means in a womans head

Boredom for me in a relationship sets in when life stops being about experiences and adventures and becomes complacent/ritualistic.

Best example I can think of off my head. I dated this guy once and when we first dated we went out dancing and bah hahing and gosh just crazy zany things we always wanted to try and had not( no not in bed guys). Then after we started just dating each other yeah he totally became boring all the fun stuff and new experiences went out the window. And everything became same ole same ole real quick and in a hurry. Yeah hmmm boring.

My ex and myself would go to different hotels in near by neighborhoods or even restraunts on the weekends. We went to the tar pits one weekend a art show the next or a play. Sometimes when we were broke we would just catch a bus to somewhere we could do a day trip and just walk around looking at buildings. It was great until hes drinking became so bad then the only new places we saw was the insides of new bars.

My life and my H are very ritualistic. But my H lacks drive and vision. He will do things if I suggest/plan them but he never just says hey you know what I have never done this lets go do it. I find that boring. I don't want to share experiences with someone that does not crave them. It is sorta lack luster. Like opening a business with someone who does not care about owning a business or having any customers.

Reba McEntire has a song called "Is There Life Out There"
Never have I ever heard a song so on the spot of how I about my marriage. I am a big music person and I love tons of different types but this one song is just how I feel when the boredom over comes me.



There is nothing more challanging then a long term passionate R.

To me this means having a passion for life.



Seriously that is a good thing as women arent to handy with complex subjects

Really I will take you on any day!

Thank you Cemar.

I hope you figure out how to handle the cr^p, for her sake as well as yours.

The tests your wife puts you thru are good for you. They force you to eliminate your insecurities and tread outside of your comfort zone.

not simply that we are owed it and you are grudgingly paying a back debt.

Ah my H would be foolish to ever think such a thing. He knows that I do not feel I owe him in any way shape or form. It is just not me.

I have really found that the loosely scheduled sex that is derived from the min amount of times per month and marking it down has really aided in our relationship. Our bedroom use to be like a war zone. We would have sex and he would say we had not had sex in weeks prior even if it had only been two day. He acted deprived all the time. And I became a fury of resentment instead of a sex partner. This continued even after I set the min and had been sticking to it for almost a year. We never had sex blah blah and the fights went on almost daily. Now since I have been bold face marking it on a calender in plan sight and he knows what those marks are. Ahh not many of those unfounded fights take place between us any more. Alot of my resentment has ebbed away between that and coming here and getting a greater understanding of what sex means to him. This whole LL and EC thing was totally a new concept to me as being a large need for some. Which is leading us back into the role of being sexual partners.

I want a great relationshp to me that should lead to great sex. Turning it around to great sex leading to a great relationship is not been my experience. But I am putting a effort into reversing my thinking and trying this.

Past experience does not support this thought process. I have had boyfriends were there was great sex. The relationship lacked everything else. And never matured into more. My ex and I had a awesome sex life but that relationship still eroded into a not so great relationship.
So we will see if this concept works this time around.

We HD men want more sex but we want to feel that you want to ML,

I iniate sex at least half the time in the min of the month. Yes it may only be drop your drawers last name. Or hmm I think we need to have sex comments as I snuggle up to him on most occassions. But I can be enticed to well exceed that min. The problem is my H lacks the imagination to do so. The whole enticing part is beyond him. And as stated earlier I get bored very easy and once things become boring to me I do not want to be bothered with them much. I have a very playful personality. I love simple playful banter. Get me in a playful mood and you are gonna get my juices flowing and out of the clear blue I am going to do something off the wall. My H after 15 years has never caught onto this (when I am talking playful banter I do not mean overtly sexual I mean fun picking and playing).
Playing around lightens the mood and allows you to not have to think logical and respond as such. You become much more free spirted and unencumbered. A light hearted mood is so much easier then a serious or bored mood to respond from. At least for me.

Again I am not really a LD person. I am very HD. I would have sex almost daily if I got anything from it other then a orgasm. But currently I do not. I achieve no feeling of being loved or cherished or closeness or even the feeling of being desired that comes from sex or even a happy mood. And I can have a orgasm with or without a partner. So until I can derive something deeper in meaning from the act then a orgasm it will be unfufilling to me in ways. And more about having sex to fufill my H's love tank and needs. This is where I hit my head on that brick wall that stops us in our tracks.
Frequency is not a issue in my marriage. Lack of my particapation is no longer a issue. Orgasms are no longer a issue in my marriage. Our biggest difference is the difference in what sex means to us and give us. My H is satisfied with our sexual encounters (there is a few things he would like more of I don't deny that). But I no matter how satisfied on a sexual side still find something very hallow to the experience.

anyhoo.

My H seldom turns me down so I lol of course to your comment about regretting it when you turn your wife down.
H did turn me down two days in a row. And I believe regretted it majorly when mother nature came a calling a few days early. By day two he was chomping at the bit. And kicking his own azz. Lol gotta love it! What ever oddly ailed him on those two days or point he was trying to make is history. We are up and running for the month already.

I am the type of person who will talk about just about anything. I am a open book when it comes to my short comings and faults

Yes it most certainly is an effective smoke screen. Making I statements satisfys most people. Its not the same as opening up and explaning the whys though.

I really do not feel I am being cutting towards him. I own up to my own mistakes.

I dont think nor suggest that it was your intention. Just that some of your journaling may aggravate his insecurities. Not your problem per se just be aware.

I have to say this. I am not blaming your R's function or malfunction on you. I just thought I would point out some of the double entendre's and ambiguous references that litter your journalings.

coupled with the fact I speak in flat monotones and show little expression in my eyes.
This is terribly amusing to me.

I thought you enjoyed these games. A word has so many different interpretations does it not?

I most certainly do enjoy precipitating and exposing the dissembling of others. A word has a specific meaning, how it is cobbled together with others, elicits reaction and gives opportunity for insight and further discussion. I dont tolerate flat monotones and expressionless faces around me. If you are bored go be bored somewhere else.

it is fear that is all well and fine. But to change the behavior I need to recognize the fear.

I think instead of spelling it out I will just quote you.
There is only one thing in my life I ever wanted that I could not have

Hmmm.

I refuse to play the victim or act victimized so if we are speaking in this relationship and in matters involving my step dad I argee.

No I was not. and just because pain may be self inflicted, or perspectively changed to own it, does not eliminate the vulnerability and hurt that accompanied it. and the desire for avoidance.

You wouldnt admit to jealously though. I will admit to jealousy when it comes to someone else was trying to take on my role with my kids when H had them.

Thats too easy. and cheating. I say there was more then this. You can tell me I am wrong.

I think of it as being weak if I am jealous and I have been at the blunt of my H and his unwarrented jealousy ......that even the mear thought of being jealous is enough to turn my stomach. LOL, I am sure it is, though not primarily for that reason. still waiting......



I almost felt not only self loathing for allowing myself to get there I felt almost blind hatred for my H. Ah -ha. control, control, control. Something prior to this though.

before you ask no I do not). Why not?


But he strokes me all the time. What am I a freakin cat! I don't need petted nor do I want to be. ROFL. Side note. Guys some girls are cats. Chrissy is one. You dont endlessly pet a cat or make grabs at them. Thats for dogs. You sit and wait for the cat to come to you. and then you pay attention to what kind of petting causes purring. If the petting makes the cat dash off or get up in a huff and leave, you dont try to yank it back without getting a hisss and proabably a scratch.

LOL. Yes chrissy you are a freakin Cat.

Examples of this please. I cannot use them constructivly if I am not aware of what is a test.
You use them too effectively already. I have responded several times to the womens 'tests' here. Much to your amusemnt. Nice try.

But do you use them to keep yourself in control or to engender good feelings in him and security in the R?
Methinks you misunderstood my comment. When he tests you, do you pass them or let them irritate you? (I am acknowledging that they are from your discription, insecure, overboard, and his problem.) If you pass them, will they die down? How much of this insecurity and neediness was caused by the dynamic of your initial R, the first year or so? I am not talking about his grabs and gropes. get him a electric wireless dog collar with remote to cure that behavior.

Not all men are like this but there are more then a few out there.
Well I am not going to do a tit for tat on this one. I will allow you this one, but say there is a reason they 'have' to pay for attention. And a reason why she takes his money and goes and spends it on 'jerko' bf. I dont think it is because she is 'broken' either.

important it is for the HD to feel that the LD is at least trying to make them happy.

Yes effort and trying does and should get major points, when it is done out of love.

Now the fact that I am trying to show and tell him that I am so hell bent on keeping pace and not backsliding with the monthly min is something I am doing to make him more fufilled is something that should piss him off.Now wait a cotton picking minute correct me if I am wrong(like you would not even if I did not invite you to) But I thought that was what this whole identifying your spouses love language and learning how to speak to them in it even if it was not your LL was about. You know filling there love tank.



I didnt say that sincere effort would or should piss him off.

Is that what you are trying to do? I know ALL about filling love tanks. Engendering emotion, causing feelings, etc.

complacent/ritualistic can also be worded secure/stable. I know attractors become detractors. You decided on this man for some specific reasons. It was considerably thought about. I wonder what they were. Do you remember? Probably.


He will do things if I suggest/plan them but he never just says hey you know what I have never done this lets go do it. I find that boring. I don't want to share experiences with someone that does not crave them. It is sorta lack luster

I understand. Do you see what you just said here? You make this too easy on me.

Reba McEntire
COUNTRY! ACK. BLECK! COUGH, HACK. I think I am going to go live in my truck with my dog now. Ok it wasnt terrible. Kinda girlie for my tastes though. I could really freak my friends out blasting this on the stereo.

But my H lacks drive and vision.
Compared to what?

Funny my x accused me of this. When she did so, it was the most ironic, changed perception thinking I ever saw from her. I thought it was completely untrue, and hurtful to the extreme. She was comparing 1 thing about me to someone else and didnt even have the whole picture, or understand the differences that made my drive and vision, vastly more powerful and difficult.
Well as they say the truth always comes to light eventually. It did and has. So I recieved a recording of her singing 'I will remember you' by sarah McLachlan a couple days ago. and another email. talking about my drive and former plans for us. Personally I prefer Rob Bass and DJ Easy Rock 'It takes two'.

Damn there I go blathering about me again. Damn narcissistic tendancies.

To me this means having a passion for life
Well since you have the mindset and the tendancies I suggest you 'drag' your 'willing and agreeable' H along with you on some zany adventures. Its kinda comparable to a HD guy with a LD woman who loves him, will have sex with him, just doesnt think to plan it or initiate. Also repeated good feelings with certain activities creates habits and can even cause desire if the habitual causant is lost. Hence my urging for Cemar to ML with his purportedly 'willing and agreeable' W.

to prove my point I am going to relate a personal experience. I had a gf who had been raped when she was 17. The position was doggy style when it happened and he also said some specific phrases to her that could set her off if she heard snippets or similar wording. Doggy was verboten.

Well I dont have a problem avoiding words, but I like doggy style. After a few months of slowly working different positions close to it and ending up in a similar position after her O I finally worked it. it stopped being taboo. there was withdrawal by her after the first time, but I didnt press it, didnt force it, and didnt let it discourage me either. I took baby steps and used emotional anchoring to make it a good experience and generate new memories. Was it selfish? Absolutely. Was it harmful? I dont think so, in fact I think it was good for her in the end. Did she initiate it? Not that I remember, but she wasnt resistant or inactive(dead fish) either.

anychance your desire for wanting to do new things and experience life is tied into good memories of the same, and good feelings you had while doing them. I am not discounting having a passion for life or demeaning the desire in any way. At all. just pointing out possible associative behaivior and that your H could be the same if his life experiences had shaped him this way.

There I spelled it out after all. Some of it at least. Problem solver-- cant help myself. No self control....

Playing around lightens the mood and allows you to not have to think logical and respond as such. You become much more free spirted and unencumbered. A light hearted mood is so much easier then a serious or bored mood to respond from

Thanks for telling the men this. It is HUGE. very important.

Its not the same as opening up and explaning the whys though.

Point taken. But sometimes the why's/reasons elude even the person involved. There are many things I understand about myself there are other things that just seem to be that way. No foundation for why is appearent.

I am a person that can be in a room full of friends/people and still feel all alone. It is a feeling I can remember from as far back as I remember. Why I feel that way is something I can not explain.

Just that some of your journaling may aggravate his insecurities

True. My H does not like any interaction I have with others so the fact that I put myself so out there and converse with even cyber people will enhance his insecurities. But that falls into the taking back of Chrissy aspect of where I am now. I cannot nor will not allow his insecurities to control me. Control him all he wants but not me any longer.

This is terribly amusing to me

Really. But it is very effective keeps people guessing.
The monotone thing is actually natural. The expressionless eye conact is more of a learned trait if I wagered a guess.

I dont tolerate flat monotones and expressionless faces around me. If you are bored go be bored somewhere else.

Very expressionless I say you do not bore me. Heck on occassions you even elicite me to learn. I have pulled my dictionary out more then once when reading your post.( Okay thats a lie I enlist the help of dictionary.com). Now if I would only decide to use spell check at some point before my post I would be doing just fine.

think instead of spelling it out I will just quote you.
There is only one thing in my life I ever wanted that I could not have

I don't think that this one thing would be categorized as a basis for fear. It is cause for my greatest sorrow in life thus far. Doing without this has left a void in my soul that seems can never be filled. But even with the pain that it has caused me there are large joys that may well not have been achieved had I not have failed in obtaining this one thing. Measure for measure of what I have and what I have done without I would say they equal out just in different matters of the heart.
Actually let me recant that. If put side by side and made to choose between what I wanted and I did not get or the precious things I recieved in lew of this. I would be right here were I am now. Because what I have is the most awesome thing I could ever have been given. My children.
There is a song about unanswered prayers.(yeah more country).

just because pain may be self inflicted, or perspectively changed to own it, does not eliminate the vulnerability and hurt that accompanied it. and the desire for avoidance.

Wow.

Thats too easy. and cheating. I say there was more then this. You can tell me I am wrong.

You are wrong.

Something about jealousy that some understand some don't. And yeah this will be one of those things that others don't agree with me on.
Jealousy is about fearing lose. Jealousy is about a lack of self confidence/confidence of even a miniscule amount be it in your self your partner or in your relationship.

Though I do lack self confidence in some area's of life in my relationship I lack none. I am overly confident that my H is not going anywhere so there is no fear of lose there either. I do not feel entitled to his fathfulness but nor do I feel jeopardized by the thought of his lack of it either. Let me point out to this point of our relationship there has never been anything to make me feel threatened. That could be subject to change in the future who know's.
And I may then become jealous.

I do lack self confidence as a mother. That is a very hard role to balance out. Making long term decisions for another who is not yet capable to make them there selfs is one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life.
I cannot say I like to decide things for my kids that may have long term or life long effects. I do not allows feel confident that my judgement is not jaded by the love of a mother. Hence I lack confidence. Someone coming in and infringing on my motherhood yes can rouse all kinds of emotions in me jealousy being one. No one can ever replace my children to me hence I want no one to ever be able to replace me to my children. But my side comes with a guarantee there side is not so written in stone. You see children all the time who think more of a step parent then there true parent.

And yes I know that all falls in this need to control thing or having to much control thing you keep pointing out. But as you can see there are some things I have control of that I do not necessarily want to have.

LOL, I am sure it is, though not primarily for that reason. still waiting......

Okay I was jealous in one relationship in the past and that jealousy just about ate through my soul and brought me to the bowls of hell and I will never ever ever go there again. Is that what you were waitting to hear?

Why not?

What are only the men not suppose to apolize?

Two reasons 1. I am always right ask my H he will tell you after he argues with you about it for a hour. 2. Why should I he will given a day or two even if he did nothing wrong.

ahh that was fun!
No the truth lies somewhere between the above two statements. If it was a matter of I owe a apoligy I will give it. But usually the sitch gets esculated to the point of riduculous and not by my doing so whatever the error was in the beginning gets over shadowed by the drama and the drama becomes the focus point. Blah blah no way to resolve a problem when the focus shifts from the actual problem to the behavior.

LOL. Yes chrissy you are a freakin Cat.

Dam can I at least have a pretty collar with a bow!

I guess it is better then being classified a female dog.

You use them too effectively already. I have responded several times to the womens 'tests' here. Much to your amusemnt. Nice try.

Urghh not helpful!

When he tests you, do you pass them or let them irritate you?

I fail big time. They irritate the soul out of me.
I would have to take on your big stud muffin attitude to make them work for me. I cannot see myself calling anybody a big stud muffin (yes this stuck with me I was howling with laughter inside just thinking about uttering these words). I use to call my H hon all the time and he loved it until he realized I called everyone hon. Customers co-workers ect now I call him by his last name just to give him the soul ownership of a loving pet name type deal. Yeah not loving enough. (My grams always called grams MR B and we all thought it was cute).

Yes effort and trying does and should get major points, when it is done out of love.

Your sneaky

Is that what you are trying to do?

To the best of my ability under the circumstances yes.

I don't want to share experiences with someone that does not crave them. It is sorta lack luster

I was talking in the bedroom also. I am the one who has to shake up the apple tree heck even try to cross breed it with the pear tree in there also. Eatting apples every day gets boring to.

COUNTRY! ACK. BLECK! COUGH, HACK. I think I am going to go live in my truck with my dog now.

You have a truck I knew I sorta liked you!
I don't listen to much country myself. I am a Nickleback and Three doors down type of girl myself. Fave all time song is a Creed song though. Wanna take a guess?
But I also like some rap/dance and country thanks to my family. The radio is like the dinner table around here cannot get them all to agree to like the same thing.


anychance your desire for wanting to do new things and experience life is tied into good memories of the same, and good feelings you had while doing them.

Yes there is a good chance of this being tied into past experiences. I spent a large portion of my early adulthood chasing new experiences and enjoyed it greatly.

Damn there I go blathering about me again

Blather away I enjoy it.

I recieved a recording of her singing 'I will remember you' by sarah McLachlan a couple days ago. and another email. talking about my drive and former plans for us.

I hope she has a decent voice. That is a hard song to carry off.

Any contact made yet? Or are you still keeping a little out of arm reach still?

just pointing out possible associative behaivior and that your H could be the same if his life experiences had shaped him this way.

True

After last months backslide on the sex. This month is off to a running start. We are at the half way mark for the monthly min and it is only the 4th of the month. Who knows what tonight holds. Note sex in a computer chair is not real enjoyable if you have not tried it ahhh its a pass.

Trying to incorporate more relationship stuff went Christmas shopping yesterday and took H along(usually do by myself). And I almost let him drive! Well true to nature he was more interested in looking for things he liked rather then the kids would like.
Even so I tried to incorporate some fun into it. I jumped on his back and he gave me a piggy ride through the parking lot and so forth.

Now that I am working some I can justify spending some money on myself so I bought myself a new pair of hiking boots. (I am a boot freak hate shoes though?) Not that I needed them but they were such a unusual shade of green.
I had to have them.

Today was my last day at my job. Even though I was the last one hired and was suppose to have been one of the first ones gone they kept me on until last. They have asked me to come back in the spring. Who knows.
I start a new job sometime next week. It again is temp but it last till mid January. It is back in the Mall I had my store in so it should be fun seeing some of my old customers. Maybe by Jan I will be ready to commit to something more long term and back into my field. My family has had a real problem understanding that though I was ready to go back to work I am not ready to go back to my career type work. Steping back into corporate Americia is not the same as going to work in a store. I am not ready to deal with the additional stress and games played in that ball game yet. Maybe I never will be who knows.
I look at all my suits hanging in my closet and think No not yet ( well after I look at the dust on them and think hey that needs to go to the cleaners). I don't know it is just weird I am not sure I ever want to go back to that. I know I am a all or nothing type of person when it comes to my job. My all already left my kids and H getting nothing from me once and I just don't know if I would be good at setting limits if I went back. There will always be that stack of papers that needs tending to and I will always feel torn to stay and tend to them just this once.
These little jobs do not allow me to get as engrossed in them as my career did. Guess this one will just hang out there a little longer.

I usually have H's family over for Thanks giving but I was thinking about us going away as a family this year. Wondering how bent out of shape H's family will be if we do go. Last year things were such a mess with H and I that I did not want to do Thanksgiving and the family all made plans to come(actually extras to) so I ended up having it anyways. I would really like to go up home for Thanksgiving but the weather is usually lousy by then and I do not like driving the kids through the mountains. So I doubt that we will go up home but the beach would be nice!
Yeah so that was really just me thinking out loud>

I finally broke down and asked H to cut up the tree that fell a couple weeks ago in a storm. He did not seem interested to do it in the near future so I guess if it is not done by next weekend I will have to tend to it myself.
Good thing I am handy that way! But it really does irk me.
Not really sure if this is a common problem with other relationships. I see my neighbors H always outside tending to things that I end up doing around here.

I found away to defuse the atmosphere with my sons football game issues. H can only go to every other game with the way he works so I go to the ones on the oppisite weeks. This way we can both enjoy the games in our own way without it causing issues between us. Compromise is great sometimes.

Well housework calls actually it is screaming at the moment.