Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Learning to trust myself III

Hi Heather,

Sorry to hear you're in a downward swing right now. Sometimes I feel like when you go numb (have the blahs) it's almost worse than sadness or anger. It's a sense of helplessness and defeat. You must feel backed into a corner by Matt and out of fighting energy. I think I know you well enough to say that it will be back... your body is just processing so much emotion right now.

I would highly recommend the meditation thing. Introducing it into my life has been a real blessing. It's nice to learn that you do have a safe place to feel everything without shame or judgement, and that place is within yourself, and therefore travels with you throughout your day.


I come across as demure and innocent and people would be shocked to learn that I can swear like a sailor.

Me too. I expect people to be shocked, but somehow most seem to find it 'adorable'. Although, one of my best friends once told me that I'm so sweet and delightful that she would have bought a gun and shot me years ago if she didn't know that I was bitter underneath it all. Uh, thanks, I think.


This has probably been a weird post, full of unformed thoughts.

Sometimes those are the most telling ones...

Heather,
I can see how difficult daily life is for you right now, and if struggling with anger is an issue, your circumstances prob. really make it a challenge. I think it is awesome you are working so very hard on your M and are thinking of your kids as well.
Re: having sex with your H the way you now are. That is your own choice I guess, but it seems you are having sex with him while he has no respect for you. Myself, I would have a hard time not feeling used. I don't know if continuing this is good for your M or not, but I wonder, is it really good for YOU? Having sex and not being allowed to sleep next to him? I don't understand that. And I don't see how the kissing or the sleeping next to one another can be a mental block related to the A, if having sex is not. Maybe it is me. But I could sleep next to a friend even. Without sex. So it seems like he can't see you as even a friend to me. So that is where I would hope you and your H could start. He has said he'd stay together for the kids, etc., right? Well, what if you tell him that for the kids, if you are to both being having years of daily life together, it would just be so much more comfortable and pleasant for you both to be friends?
I personally, would try to establish and expect to be treated as a friend and would not have sex with him at all at this point. But that might just be me.

a sense of helplessness and defeat. You must feel backed into a corner by Matt and out of fighting energy.

That describes my feelings pretty well when I'm frustrated. Helplessness can KMA The great thing about these boards and DR is that I know I'm not really helpless. I need to keep reminding myself of that. I need to realize that I feel helpless because my H is not changing as fast or in all of the ways that I'd like. It's the expectations and the fact that they are not being met that fuels my feelings of helplessness. I need to take the focus off H and what he is or isn't doing and put the focus back on me. If I wasn't talking about something that's not so fun, I would say I was being selfish there, lol

I think I know you well enough to say that it will be back... your body is just processing so much emotion right now.

Thanks Anna! You were right. I feel better today. When someone gives me their opinion, I place a very high value on it. I put a very high value on everyone's opinion on this BB. I put a very high value on my H's opinion. The problem I've identified in my life is that I don't place a very high value on my own opinion. I think I've blamed H enough for that, he is not at fault for that. When someone gives me their opinion I need to realize that is just one person's opinion and it is not fair to either myself or to that person to place too high of a value on their
statement(s). I need to consider what others think and feel, but ultimately it is my life and my feelings that reign inside this heart and head of mine. I need to trust myself. This is the third thread of mine with that title and I am starting to see the applications of trusting myself outside of my M as well.

if struggling with anger is an issue, your circumstances prob. really make it a challenge

Yep. But guess what? H actually commented last night that I have done a "180" with my behavior. A 180!!!! When he said that, I just thought to myself "It's working!!". I have been controlling my reactions much better and really working on the idea that every thought that goes through my head doesn't have to come flying out of my mouth.

it seems you are having sex with him while he has no respect for you.

That is one way of looking at it. And it seems to be the point of view that causes the most problems, lol. I had a discussion with H about this last night. He was slightly reluctant to discuss it at first, but then seemed very willing and we had a good overall discussion. The major points of interest are that he said he can see us sleeping in the same bed again, but we have a long ways to go (afterall, I just started being civil to him 3-4 months ago he said). He said trust would take a long time to re-establish and I found this positive because he at least sees that it can be rebuilt. He asked me to listen to my heart and tell him if I feel having sex is good for our R or not. I said I felt it was a good thing. He asked me if I felt I was having to do all the R work b/c he feels we have a good "thing" going where it is give and take between us. I told him that lately I did not feel that I was having to do all the work. So all of that is very positive stuff. At one point I said "I agree" and he said "OMG, who is this person?"
But, S_H, you bring up an excellent point about sleeping next to a friend without sex. And I think that you are probably right on. H and I are married and we are continuing with some things the way a married couple would, i.e. sex. But I think he is letting me know that I am not back in his heart yet as a friend. I am his wife, but not his friend. Thank you for pointing that out. That needs to be really important in the coming months, being a friend to him and him to me.
I haven't sorted out how I feel entirely about the sex thing. I'm still thinking on it. Thanks for the new perspective S_H.

I bought the Dance of Anger tonight although I probably won't have a chance to start reading it right away. I've got a lot going on and with my Mom here, most of my free time isn't free Oh, and I also bought another book by Zane. Have any of you read her stuff?! It's, um....good stuff.
H may have to go to Bremerton Sunday and stay through the 29th, so it is possible he won't be able to go with me to Annapolis, which doesn't make me very happy. I think he will be a little disappointed as well. We'll see. We really need that time alone.

House is on, I'll post more later, lol.

it seems you are having sex with him while he has no respect for you.

In the 5 Love Languages book, Physical Touch is a love language. I think that your feelings about this all depends on how you look at it. Is Physical Touch one of H's LL? When you engage in this physical act, are you doing so because you are showing him that you love him? Are you making love w/him? Are you sharing yourself w/him? Or, is it all for just the physical feeling and the big O?

Your motivation may help you to resolve your feelings.

Sounds like things are turning around a bit. Keep the faith and stay the course!

Well House was not on last night afterall. MLB....what*ever*! I'm not a baseball fan, can ya tell?

Jabez, it is not my motivation that concerns me, it is H's.

Is Physical Touch one of H's LL?

It would seem so. I don't know how to feel really confident that I'm right, but it seems to convey good things to him, for sure. He responds well and seems happier overall.

When you engage in this physical act, are you doing so because you are showing him that you love him? Are you making love w/him? Are you sharing yourself w/him? Or, is it all for just the physical feeling and the big O?
I am definitely sharing myself with him, it is more than sex. I don't know that I'm making love with him. That's a stretch for now. But it's intimate and I know in my heart that it's not just fu@king for either one of us. My motivation is that it brings us closer together. H and I need all the bonds we can possibly find right now and sex is one of the bonds that I have available.

I don't think it's very practical to put a 'no sex' rule in place, it wouldn't be true to how I feel and I'm not good at keeping up that kind of stuff. I've told H that it concerns me that we have sex but don't sleep in the same bed and I don't think he's taking it lightly.

Bud said something on his thread (sorry to always refer back to the things you say Bud, but you're always so insightful, lol. I do read other people's threads too, I promise!!) about being afraid that if the R started to go down a more positive road he'd be afraid to start asserting his needs into the R for fear W would say "see I knew you hadn't really changed".....I can relate to that very well as I'm sure many others can as well. But in my case so far, it seems that I've been able to establish some boundaries (like choosing to end the phone call when H referred to me as irrational) and H has still reacted postively toward me, still acknowledged my changes and expressed satisfaction with the way our R is headed. This makes me feel very optimistic about our R because I feel more respected than I have in the past. And I can tell that although H did not say he wants to start sleeping in the same bed again, he did indicate that it would happen eventually if we continue on this path. That is fair enough. I have no right to ask for more than he can give after what I've done. And I can feel that he takes my point seriously. That puts us in an entirely different category than we were in just a few months ago. Yey!

I do read other people's threads too, I promise!!

I know you do! I think you get around this board more than I do.

It's great to see you and H moving in a positive direction. S_H made some comments in her thread that got me thinking and might be worth thinking about in your sitch as well. Do you think H sees your R as a parent/child dynamic? Some of the things he does seem like he's giving you "consequences" until your behavior falls in line with what he expects.

I really hope he makes your trip to Annapolis; you guys seem like you're in a place where you could really see some progress with some time alone. But in the unfortunate event it falls through, let me know and we'll get something together with a few folks up here. As long as it's not this coming weekend.

in the unfortunate event it falls through, let me know and we'll get something together with a few folks up here.

That would be awesome! I'll be there the 13th-15th. If H doesn't go, I will probably ride with someone else though, so I'm not sure how much latitude I will have as far as driving.

I'm not a baseball fan, can ya tell?
It would have been a lot more interesting in the Phillies were still playing.

it is not my motivation that concerns me, it is H's. . .I am definitely sharing myself with him, it is more than sex.
I'm not Dr. Ruth or Dr. Phil, but I'd say that as long as you don't feel like you are being used or violated by H, then if it brings you closer, it is a good thing.

It sounds like good things are continuing to happen. I hope that H can make the trip. Maybe it will be the start of sleeping in the same bed?

Overall, things are still going in a positve direction for H and I. We have been really busy, both of us a little overwhelmed and on edge at times. But able to talk about it and move past it.
Then last night, he started with a couple comments that really ticked me off. I mentioned that ER was on at 10pm and he asked what that had to do with us. I said, I've been watching it. He says, "I've always thought it was good that we weren't glued to any 'shows'....now you watch desperate housewives on Sundays, Tuesday you were looking for House and now tonight you're talking about ER. The other day D2 and S5 were playing 'mommy and daddy' and S5 tells D2 'ok you be mommy and I'll be daddy' and D2 says 'ok, I'm going to karate'." Personally, think it's cute that she said that and would not react negatively to that at all.....H sees it as a totally negative thing and made me feel that I should be ashamed that that would be the first thing to come to her little mind when she was playing Mommy. So, we continued the conversation a little and among some other sentences, I recall saying something like 'What is your point here, what are you trying to say??' And I recall him mentioning that on Sunday when Desperate Housewives was on that I didn't stay in S5's room to finish the bedtime story b/c after the commercial was over I went back to the living room. I asked about his Sunday football and why it's ok for him to be 100% dedicated to football for 3 hours but I can't watch a tv show. He said 'Lately, I'm watching the kids while I'm trying to watch football (b/c I have karate on Sundays at 2pm). I didn't respond to that. I said 'ok, would you like to give me a list of what I am and am not allowed to do'. He said 'Just use a little consideration for the family when you're making your own list'.
WTF??? We are talking about TV here. I have not been able to go to karate on a regular basis in *months*. Now he's complaining about TV shows that I watch. I told him this was an example of a negative interaction that had no point to it.
I don't know why he tries to make me feel so guilty for anything I do that doesn't have to do with the kids. I'm torn b/c I see his point. We work all day and only have a few hours with our kids at night. But we *do* make the most of those hours, last night we went for a bike ride when I got home from work, we do all kinds of stuff with them. The vast majority of our free time is centered around them. I get irritated and very defensive when H starts talking like I am not allowed to have a life that treats *me* as though I am important as well without him constantly telling me how 'selfish' or 'inconsiderate' I am. There is absolutely no GAL in my case!!
Thoughts??