Z_Bube You know that is called detachment. Sounds like you are lovingly detaching instead of resentfully detaching but I think that is a slippery slope. Too much detachment will lead to indifference, death for a M. Why are you detaching? My educated guess is self-protection. Your mind (and body, obviously with the E problems) is not letting her get too close right now because of the history of rejection. My take on it is that you just need a break before jumping back into Marriage Improvement mode. As long as it is fairly short term, I don't see too much harm. Sort of like what Honeypot is experiencing now. Hopefully you will both find your way out fairly quickly.
It's an interesting place to be isn't it. I was there briefly, not as long as HP, but I was there briefly after I got everything out of my system with my H. It's a shift in dynamics that happens. As soon as we (the HD partner) back off completely, that's when it's safe for the LD partner to come to us. Unfortunately for us to back off to that extent we have to pretty much become...disinterested, and that's not a good thing for the R.
However, I do still believe it's a temporary thing. It's out way of subconciously shutting down to protect ourselves...to recoup if you will.
Mixed results this weekend. I did actually initiate a convo about the animals, but it was short and none too revealing. Actually, it turned into another rant about how W isn’t allowed to do anything she wants to do.
It started off simply enough. We have one dog staying in the house who is a return. He was adopted out to the manager of a Petsmart, but he would never “make up” with her husband and he insisted that she get rid of the dog. I don’t know what happened while he was gone, but this is a different dog than they took. This dog is just plain bad. He pees in the house all of the time. He pulls stuff off of the kitchen counters. He’s been up on the table. He gets into the trash and spreads it all over. He barks incessantly. He’s started gnawing on one of the table legs in the dining room. He’s just bad. But every time I say something, W just comes back with, “He’s just a puppy”, or, “He’s just confused and upset after he’s been bounced around”, or some other such nonsense. The convo started when I told her that she had to do something about the dog.
ZB: W, you have to do something about this dog. You need to find him somewhere else to stay, put him outside, keep him crated, or something. We can’t spend all day watching him to see what he’s going to get into next.
MrsZB: I’ve already talked to OGM (Other Group Member) and she said she would take him. (There was some hold-up so OGM couldn’t take him for a couple more days, but I can’t remember what it was.)
ZB: You know, it’s not just him. The dog situation has gotten totally out of hand around here. Cats too. It’s gotten to the point that every minute of our free time revolves around these animals.
MrsZB: I know, but I’m working on getting this crop moved out. <snipping a bunch of details about plans for specific animals>
ZB: Yeah, but that’s “this crop”. Part of the problem is that every time we start to get down to a manageable number, you bring in another crop.
MrsZB: But…
ZB: No, let me finish. Every time we get close to having a manageable number, you bring in more. Then we have adoptions every weekend. We have vet trips. We have dog stuff to load or unload or whatever. It takes up all of our time. I had a three-day weekend and I only had two things I wanted to do: get a haircut and wash my motorcycle. I never made it to do either one. The kids spend more time taking care of the dogs than they spend on homework. It’s just out of control.
Then the rant started. She always starts these rants, regardless of subject, with some calm and reasonable statement. But invariably, you can see her winding herself up. You can actually see it building on itself. She starts off with something like saying that she spends all of her time doing things for other people and just wants to do something that she likes. That’s quite reasonable and really quite healthy, but it’s like saying it out loud and hearing it makes her angry that other people are making demands on her. So she’ll follow that one with something about the kids always wanting her to do this or make that or telling her that they need this. And you can see and hear how each phrase out of her mouth just makes her a little more upset. By the time she gets done, we’re all a bunch of worthless scum constantly demanding 100% of her time and energy and giving nothing in return. Not even appreciation for all that she does.
Then, having turned the subject from the dog population being out of control to how everybody demands so much of her while doing nothing themselves, she decides that the solution is for her to stop doing things for any of us. You’ve heard this one before. She announces that she’s not doing anything for us, we can fend for ourselves. She’s not shopping, she’s not cooking, she’s not doing laundry, she’s not doing anything. She then goes into the bedroom, slams the door, and turns on the TV.
So the current question is this: what do I do when she launches into one of these rants? I know that there’s no reasoning with her, so my MO has been to just ignore them and let her go. After the rant and the subsequent retreat to the bedroom, she acts surly for a while, but then goes back to normal.
Quote: ZB: No, let me finish. Every time we get close to having a manageable number, you bring in more. Then we have adoptions every weekend. We have vet trips. We have dog stuff to load or unload or whatever. It takes up all of our time. I had a three-day weekend and I only had two things I wanted to do: get a haircut and wash my motorcycle. I never made it to do either one. The kids spend more time taking care of the dogs than they spend on homework. It’s just out of control.
This would have been the perfect opportunity to slip in something about how you would like to spend some time alone with her sans dogs, chores, kids, etc. You took control and had your say. Next time the mood strikes you, don't hold back my man.
As for Mrs. Bube going off on a rant, it may be helpful to calmly keep repeating that you are willing to talk about that at another time, but bring the conversation back to the original topic. When you do this, Mrs. Bube has no choice but to either stop talking or to participate in the topic at hand, either way, you don't have to hear a rant.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
I'm not asking that you have no animals, only that we come to a decision--as a family--on how many animals we will have and what role they will play in our lives. Currently you are making that decision for all of us and we'd like a little more input.
Be a strong man, hash it out with her, then call a family meeting and be an advocate for your kids. They need someone to act on their behalf, too.
Re this latest return dog. This is a different case from the general dog population. I sense that she identifies with this dog, and it is special to her for that reason. It went to a home where it was likely mistreated, and now no one likes it. You might point out that dogs feel more safe and secure when they're crated for at least part of the day. That dogs WANT to please their masters, and if they're out of control, they want and need for you to help them learn control. Clearly the dog suffered a trauma in some kind-- dogs just do not act like this for no reason. The kindest thing you could do for W and doggie at this time is to give lots of TLC to this poor animal. I predict THIS would get her attention.
You cannot reason with her on the subject of animals, and every time you try, you will be defeated and frustrated. Her passion and devotion is not based on logic or reason, and you cannot reach her through these channels. I would have thought you would get this after 30 years. You say you've been accused of "having no feelings." Well, this subject is ALL ABOUT feelings, so it's no wonder y'all can't communicate on it.
Stop trying to have rational convos about the animals.
Quote: As for Mrs. Bube going off on a rant, it may be helpful to calmly keep repeating that you are willing to talk about that at another time, but bring the conversation back to the original topic.
That sounds good in theory, but it doesn’t work in practice. When she starts the rant, all incoming calls are put on hold. Or maybe sent to voicemail. She doesn’t listen. I could say anything, and I have tried the calm redirect, but she isn’t listening. I don’t mean not responding either. I have asked her later and she doesn’t have a clue what I said to her. These are bona fide rants where the vitriol just comes spewing out with such force that nothing can get in. You can listen or leave. There is no option for continuation of the convo.
HP,
Quote: I'm not asking that you have no animals, only that we come to a decision--as a family--on how many animals we will have and what role they will play in our lives. Currently you are making that decision for all of us and we'd like a little more input.
OK, I know that I’m sounding like a defeatist here, but I don’t see us ever coming to an agreement here. We’ve had this convo more times than I can count. Even before she started running our own personal animal shelter, we had lots of convos about the animal population. We would (ostensibly) agree that we had enough (too many) and that we (she) wouldn’t get any more until one or more died. Then she would get another one. I already told you about the Dalmatian incident, but there are at least three or four very similar stories. Did I tell you about the time she flew to visit her family for a couple of weeks? She called shortly before coming home and asked me if we wanted a dog or a cat. I said neither and explained that we had a small house and already had enough animals. She was unhappy, but she agreed. Yeah, right. When I picked her up at the airport, here she came with a dog carrier.
The point is that she’ll never agree. She may verbally agree, just to keep the peace. But she’ll still do as she pleases. This requires action. Next time she drags home another one after agreeing not to, I need to strap on a pair and take it back. It’s just really hard for me to take it back when “back” is the pound and certain death. Like I said before, I can leave them there, but I’m too soft to take them.
