Quote: I must say you come across fairly cocky in your post(s)
glad you like it. Seriously that like all my posts, is just a statement of what is. How it comes off as cocky when I so obviously did so many things wrong wrong wrong I dont get.
no affair, with PA not even emotional. we desired each other very very much. Other people would kid us on the electricity. I never took any resources that belonged to my spouse and gave them to her. I wanted to, I almost did, I could have. I did not. I asked and asked my wife to come down to the set, finally I drug her down there with me on a short day. That helped alot to.
Quote: I found your comment "not the hottest, but hot enough" about her very interesting.
stop holding back, such a PC word 'interesting'. Bring it.
She was the love of my life and is still in many ways my dream girl physically and mentally. She was up to my standard of hot enough to marry but not the hottest girl I ever dated. Its very important to me but not the deciding factor. It cracks me up that this irks women so much, yet when I watch the insecure wuss work up the courage to ask a girl to dinner or just a phone number, they blow them off or freeze them out harder and faster then any guy ever did to a fugly girl. Early in our relationship she asked what she was on a 1-10 scale. I honestly said 8. 10's only exist in magazines. wrong answer. the right answer apparently is you are perfect to me. I thought that was obvious I married her.
Quote: Unfortunatly, when you tried to get back together your macho side won out over your thoughtful/intelligent side. You did just about everything wrong at that point (verbally abusive, etc).
During my competing phase I actually did a lot of DB'ing, unbeknownst to me.As-if,180,lovingly detach, but after we got back together I went straight to I did for you -you do for me. treat me bad I treat you bad. resentment. I am the man. command and conquer. blech. very weak of me.
things I did right. I would drag her to the beach, to a museum, to a coffee shop to people watch, make fun of, guess at what they did, what their sexual orientation is anything fun. she would say 'I don't want to', make things difficult, be uncooperative, I ignored and plowed ahead, (its called frame control, very important skill for men to learn.) had fun, eventually she would be laughing and having fun too. I would not let her wallow in depression. I tried different tactics. I would drag her out of the bed playfully. Put her in the shower with her clothes on. say I am leaving --that would always freak her out-- and when she said where --I'd say 'name of place'. she would get dejected and I would say If you would like to come I'll wait 15 minutes for you to get ready. LOL. it always took her longer of course but she was moving and having fun rapidly.
Quote: Still, I think you and xW clearly have a very passionate history and there is a lot to build on there. It is not unheard of for people to get remarried after D
divorce and remarriage is unacceptable. for whatever reason it wasnt enough to stay the course for her. she mentioned wanting to retake our vows? That so nullifys them, retaking them.
Quote: She seemed to be reaching out to you at several points and you blew it.
in the context of marriage thats fine. having an affair, not. fool me 1, shame on me, fool me 2 shame on you. Did she ever stop talking to him? she says she did. I do know I made mistakes. and her reaction to them was always to escalate and throw gas on the fire. I see the women on this BB not just this forum and what they are willing to deal with without having an affair. I didnt leave her, I didnt file. I have clearly stated and acknowledged my mistakes. she never stopped acting a victim.
Original gangster LOU all I know of my great grandma blackfoot is a picture of her in a rocking chair smoking a pipe. I dont know nopkins.
Quote: Some women say they want strong men and when we are strong we are called mean or controlling. If we are gentle, we are called wimps. We lose either way. Just my opinion.
this needs to be addressed there is a solution.
Gel
Quote: after 6 weeks of not having a reason why it happened, out of nowhere she says it was because she cant see a future with me.
Quote: the backwards rationalizing. the rewriting history. the accusations of why I was a bad husband for the past 7 years.
I watched it unfold right in front of me from 0. I knew what was happening way before she did. I am not new. at first I thought it needed to be handled differently then a normal male /female relationship, we were married after all. LOL. wrong again. so I tried dealing with it like muhammad Alli vs. Foreman fight. let her wail away with everyhting she had untill she wore herself out. I would jsut stand there and silently wait. but she didnt wear out, it just fed itself. finally I said married or not I am a man she is a woman. change tactics. one ridiculous but true thing she said was I rejected her for sex 3 time in the past 8 years. it just got more and more ridiculous. something I said on a date before we were married about her dress made me a bad husband. she was running on pure justification. she had feelings for him but guilt and confusion also and I was the enemy. I lost my respect for her, but my education told me why it was happening. Sometimes I wish I was ignorant.
I know why it happened.
1 I initiated allowed, encouraged, participated in them spending to much time together in multiple activities where love units were deposited in massive quantities as willard harley so elegantly reduces complex emotional responses and chemical reactions to laymans terms. Thank you sir. 2. I stopped connecting with her and verbally communicating. we alwasy had this habit of 'pillow talking' every night. connecting conversations that invariably led to connecting bodies. after we got there the conversations seemed to increasingly turn to the subject of me not getting an interview, or job, or this or that. (my lack of frame control) In retrospect she was trying to help. at the time it felt like nagging, and I needed the solace of my 'cave' untill I got my stuff together. I didnt need suggestions or solutions. I needed patience and acknowlegement that we would be fine. I should have projected patience and that we would be fine.
3 My lack of self esteem from my lack of job (I wanted) crashed into her lack of self esteem in thinking (thru out our whole relationship) that I was going to leave her. Bingo she lost respect. because of my view of myself. this is a nugget.
I need to write an essay on this dynamic. Two insecuritys crashing. HMMM.
LIL
Quote: The drop in a guy's self-esteem-- and the falling dominoes caused by that--
yes lil just what I was saying. damn this is going somewhere. I am getting deeper and deeper into this. had some flashes that I need to flesh out more about this.
LFL
Quote: Hmm... Don't men have control over any of their emotions?
always, In fact I have for the most part manipulated them like a weapon. When I almost had an affair, I turned all that chemical energy and emotion on my wife. We both loved the inferno that resulted. during her affair my emotiions went all over the place like a fire hose out of control. Shudder. --I had a weak spot that is very commom, my identity with my job. Crazy thing is my contracting pays way more then my chosen career change. and is way more macho, blah blah. That one is gone now it will never happen with me again. but I lost my wife, and hopes and dreams in exchange. I also developed a new one. Being cheated on. It wrecked my self esteem. It goes so against who I am and what I believe, my identity, what I allow in myself and trying to work thru it made me insane. I wont do what is neccessary, anymore. I was not a WAS, or abusive in any way before all this. I hated who I became after the affair started. I hated what I was doing when we first got back together. I was operating under some incomplete and misunderstood beliefs. DB finished rounding them out. If I had read that book instead of throwing it away and applied it after we got back her.... I definetly recomend it. Obviously I am here. my friends say about me-- If there is a solution BF will find it.-- a bunch of them put it up on there IM sig's as a joke. that day in the rain my triune brains crashed into each other. I needed a straight jacket. and a shot of ketamine. there was no solution. She did that to us. because of feelings. attraction and desire are feelings. we cannot choose when or where to have them happen. but once we marry we have stated what we will do with them. I truly believe it is for our own good to work thru these things... we improve ourselves.
Love is an ideal and therefore a choice.
At least the greeks had sense enough to use 4 words for love. agape, philia, storge and mmm my favorite eros. 1 corinthians 13:7 The bible may be a great mythology to some but damn if it isnt a fantastic primer on physcological health and maturity, and what to do and NOT for a successful marriage, unlike all the other mythologies. I have no religious inclinations, just spiritual ones but I will quote scriptures, and the bushido code and "confusion say" I mean confucious.
Hi Blackfoot- There is so much to comment on in that post but I'll keep it as short as possible. My point with the "hot enough" comment about your xW is that she obviously sensed that attitude from you throughout your M. You stated she was scared you were going to leave from the beginning. In a sense you had the POWER in the relationship, and maybe by having the affair, that was her way of saying F-you, now I have the POWER.
It sucks to feel insecure and powerless. It also sucks when your S takes the attitude that you will always be there no matter what. (I'm referring to my own S here, maybe it applies to you too).
My H pre-separation used to piss me off when he would say things like "I know you would never cheat on me." You may think that is a good statement, but to me (and I think many women) it is the message between the lines that counts. In other words, he was saying "You've got too good a thing with me and you better be happy with what you have because you won't find better." That's what I mean by TOO cocky. Maybe cocky isn't the word, but an attitude that no matter what HE does, SHE should be happy with it. A big turn off.
I think it was in Honeypot's thread where people suggested that Mr. H should "woo" her more. That is a good idea. But it is very hard for the W to be receptive to that "woo-ing" after a M full of baggage. That is how I am feeling the last few days. H is still "woo-ing" me but I am not feeling receptive to it like I was last week. Why? Was I faking it to see if it would work? Maybe. Not a great way to get thru a M. Certainly won't last too long.
Sort of like you Blackfoot, "dragging" your W to the museums, etc. Is it to little too late? Maybe it was for her.
You state, "Remarriage is unacceptable." If that is your view, do you think it is because she had an affair or because of the separation or what? I'm genuinely interested in this answer because I'm wondering if reconcilation with my own H right now is "workable" in the long-term. There has been so much hurt on both sides. I'm really starting to doubt if it is possible. I mean it would be easy to get back together and have an "ok" M, but not a great one. I want a great one! Is that too much to ask? Maybe too much has happened and that is no longer a possibility.
You basically said that you would have a hard time forgiving your W for the affair with your friend. That is "wrecked your self-esteem." If my H feels anywhere near that, is this doomed? He keeps so much inside that I don't feel like I really know what he thinks of this, and yes I have come right out and asked him. I think he gives me the answer I want to hear so that we get back together. Well, what about after we are back together? What then?
Without a doubt if my H had one tenth of your self assured (cocky) attitude. And it was not a facade. I myself would find myself being intensely interested or attracted to him without any effort on my part. Without a doubt if my H had one tenth of your knowledge and motivational spirit. I would be so mesmerised by interactions with him that I would find myself longing for his presence in his absences. If my H also had one on tenth of the personal magnetism and charm you can depict and portray souly by words. I believe my want for him both physically and spriritually would be unsatiable. Though you words in some of your post have elicited pure male egotism. They also exhibit your ability to show a more gentle and raw emotional side that masucline males tend to hide or ignore. I find the dynamic in this as oddly facinating.
While as a whole I believe that initally I would find myself mesmerized by someone like your self. I wonder if your persona at some point in time would become overpowering. And tend to make me feel lacking within my self. I would like to believe that a persona like yours would motivate me and keep me challenged and open to new growth experiences. But I have to wonder if in truth if I would feel like I was running to keep up so I was not outgrown and cast aside. It is a interesting thought to ponder. Thank you for that.
Though I do not agree with a vast majority of people who would say while reconciling with your wife that you should have been wooing her. Though I can see and agree with the fact that the dormant resentment that would flare up at times was not helpful. I also do not feel your wife was 100 percent committed to coming back to the relationship on a emotional level either so I do not feel it was as hurtful as it could have been.
Though I feel on a whole you have been willing to shoulder your responsibilty for all good and bad within your R and this is something that I myself find as a very respectful quality in another person. And I am sure you soon to be Ex will see these also when she gets to a point where she is capable to admit to her responsiblity for not only the good but the bad within the relationship. I can also see it as a way for her to try to make you shoulder her share of the responsibility also.
But all this leads me to a question. All these things that as a cyber person I can say would cause me to find myself gravitating to a person like you in real life. I wonder if in part is not a contributing factor in your heartbreak.
I wonder if your male ego in part did not cause the enivity of your wifes affair (not blaming wordage is probably wrong). My meaning by not only not considering the effects that enbedding a thrid party so deeply in to your personal life may cause. But doing so with forhanded knowledge that the person was one that actively seeks the self esteem high brought on by the part they play in destruction of peoples marriages. And inviting that person not only into your R but into your house. Through a egotistical belief that your wife your self and your marriage was better then "that". Was a envitablity for disaster. I wonder if it not only enabled that person but also by the encouraging of them to play such a active day to day role within your life and your M that it did not blur the boundries. And while true there were advantageous circumstance for yourself and your PA. These circumtsances did not dwell within the safe harbor of your home. As your friend did. Allowing you a escape route which enabled you reprieve from the pressure the sexual tension that had been established with your PA. A escape route that with your wife that was not available from your friend.(Friend is a definitive word that lacks meaning for this person he is a rogue). I am also lead to wonder if your wifes objections to the rogue particaption was her attempt to detach herself from that air and keep herself from over stepping the lines of her morality without it effecting your friendship.(Oddly I understand this due to personal situations). Again I am not laying any form of blame I just wonder if the only true error within your marriage was based on a simple egotistical oversight that lead to a deadly domino effect. I am saddened for you. You have lost three times within this situation. Your wife, What you thought was a friend, And the motivation for your dream job. Those are great loses. I hope you find motivation for new dreams, Real friends and love that never ends somewhere within the course of the remainder of your life.
LFL I think I am going to stick to answering your issues. When a guy says something thats what he means. There is no in between the lines.
Women "generally" filter what we say thru two levels. why did he say that. and what did he mean by that. It causes so many problems. We are dumb brutes. When we say we are hungry that is what it means. It doesnt mean- I think you are a bad wife for not having dinner ready. Your advanced speech centers are a pain in the ass.
when your H said you would never cheat on him ...that is what he meant. he thinks you are someone of high moral character who wouldnt do that. What you interprered it to was your issue and completely off. I am not feeling receptive to it like I was last week. Why? Was I faking it to see if it would work? Maybe. Not a great way to get thru a M. Certainly won't last too long. no you werent faking. This is called backwards rationalizing. it was a real feeling just like this weeks real feeling. next week will be different too. stop your negative thoughts. that is your responsiblity. stop them.
Reconciliation is great, mature, responsible, healthy,takes determination and strenth. It is the right thing to do. Remarriage? What divorce is a game? a speedbump? vows are what just words? those are two differnt things. you and I have different sitch's. she restarted her affair,and escalated it. It is my fault that it started... but I did the lion share of the work. in restoring and reconciling. I am not perfect and will make mistakes again. she is going to run off again? when does she take responsibility? only then can we have a great marriage. she has her things to work on. The divorce is completely up to her I had nothing to do with it. I sign what she asks me too. she still has complete access to all of my finances, I could wake up monday and be bankrupt if she so chooses. I assumed every bill. divorce is her choice but she will have to live with it.
My wooing her during the reconciliation was not too little too late, it was my verbal abuse on her b-day when things were going welll that wrecked it.
just as her 'not being able to see a future with me' was NOT the original reason. if it was we would not have reconciled. Im not going into the phsycology of it. Focus yourself on DB'ing, on solutions and what you need to fix in yourself. There are plenty. I dont know what they are, but you and your H had crashing insecurities for some reason. You guys wont be able to work on your marriage untill OM is faded much more then he currently has. Time. patience. You are going to ride a rollercaoster of emotions LFL, fear of your WAH, loss of OM, finances, bad traffic, bad hair day, LOL, fear of the marriage not working. STOP IT. It will work out.
You and H are on a level playing field in my opinion. He F'ed up, and you reacted typically, but you F'ed up too. It seems he is owning his, own yours.
again my wife has done it twice. after we have read about it together.
Quote: There has been so much hurt on both sides. I'm really starting to doubt if it is possible. I mean it would be easy to get back together and have an "ok" M, but not a great one. I want a great one! Is that too much to ask? Maybe too much has happened and that is no longer a possibility.
Did you copy this out of a book of things woman say after a relationship crash? j/k
No .it is easier to have a great marriage with a spouse then with someone new. who you know none of their faults to come. There is no greener grass. Just the grass you maintain. Make it green .
Quote: He keeps so much inside that I don't feel like I really know what he thinks of this, and yes I have come right out and asked him. I think he gives me the answer I want to hear so that we get back together
I know you need the verbal. Go ahead and get it. What do his actions say? That is how we communicate. Are they saying the same thing? Sounds like they are. Hes trying so help him out a little. Its what you want --so its ok to hope, even if it is scary.
You'll be ok girl. I have ideas for you and your H when you simmer down a little,
Chrissy thanks... I think... your post is so spot on, I dont even know what to say. It hit in so many undefendable areas, ones that kept me awake for months during our first seperation. Are you talking to my x? Do I know you from somewhere? one reason I took all the blame is because of my education on this stuff.(another is because its easier to fix something you own.) Was I expecting her to be super-woman? Was I testing her in the most ridiculous situation, with a guy who would go to the time and effort to actually pull it off. It wasn't conscious, but inevitable it sure became.
Quote: I just wonder if the only true error within your marriage was based on a simple egotistical oversight that lead to a deadly domino effect.
You have succintly stated the same conclusion I have come to. Its hard enough to forgive myself for the confusion and depression and pain she is in because of it. I was supposed to care for and protect her. Wow. did I fail. Her family updates me, and when I see her I can tell she isnt eating well enough or sleeping. She has asked "If I knew he was like that why did I take her there." she was going thru my emails during our reconciliation, and saw something about it. But of course this irritates me because she still has feelings for him, and went back after I slipped up. How do I close Pandora's box? I expected her to make a choice about love like a man does, yet I didnt act like a man by allowing someone to pursue my wife unchallanged.I acted like a cocky a$$hole. I guess my punishment is my losses.
Like HairDog said Ill be fine I am young.
Thanks for pointing out what a egotistical jerk I am to everyone else here Chrissy. j/k It is something I am working on. Between you and LFL's post today I am understanding where x was coming from now in her insecurity, with me leaving her. I always brushed it and her (mild) jealousy of some of the female friends in our life off, just dismissing them as her problem and her insecurity that she needed to get over.
After all I had married her. Why would she possible think I was going to leave her? It was so obvious to me, why couldnt she see it?
Sigh. I am going to go stuff myself with humble pie now.
Good point on the "backwards rationalizing". I think you are on to something there. Still, my thoughts and feelings are real in the moment and at this moment I'm still pessimistic.
In fact, I'm not sure I even want to be M anymore. To anyone. Too much work. Too much heartache. Too much BS. See what kind of mood I am in
I think I would be perfectly happy taking a "lover" and when he start to drive me crazy, make me bored, etc LOL, I would just dump his azz and get me a newer model. Lots of people do it. I already have my kids, I have a job. I don't need a H anymore, right? Why put up with all this crap? Life would be more exciting, passionate, interesting. Now, it's "What's for dinner?", "What time do I pick up DS DD from school?" "What's on tv tonight?" Ugh. I'm in DOMESTIC HELL!
You need not defend yourself or take blame for these area's. Life teaches us lessons that other wise we cannot learn. Books only give us knowledge experience give us understanding. That in itself leaves us faultless and guiltless to certain aspects in life.
Are you talking to my x? Do I know you from somewhere?
No I do not know you or your wife. I do have first hand experience of a simular situation.
My H brother once lived with us. While I related to him as best friend material. The boundries became blurred for him. His overstepping them the first time was a reality check for myself. I questioned my own behavior towards him and distanced myself from the situation to a degree. His overstepping them a second time made me realize it was not myself but his brothers egotistical need to get what my H had. Which was easy for me to see because there had always been a power struggle/competition between them a need to best each other and oddly a sense of entitlement to what the other had. I did not tell my H of his brothers behavior for years due to my belief in family bonds. And I did not want to be the cause of any pain my H would feel. I also know that the severing the ties of family/friends has a life time impact. I did not want to be responsible for that I live with that sin against my soul already. Anyhow I distanced myself further from the situation I stopped being around his brother other then family functions and then only treated him with cool indifference. No one ever took note in the difference in my response to my BIL. Which oddly years later showed up a a huge resentment factor for me. I learned I did feel my H had failed to protect me. So no I do not know you but I know your situation in a round about way.
Was I expecting her to be super-woman? Was I testing her in the most ridiculous situation, with a guy who would go to the time and effort to actually pull it off. It wasn't conscious, but inevitable it sure became.
My opinion no. You were blinded by ego and trust.
She has asked "If I knew he was like that why did I take her there." she was going thru my emails during our reconciliation, and saw something about it. Even though he was a known preditar. He was your friend first. Even though she may be looked at as pry. She was your wife.
I can only imagine at the time what you saw was. He was your friend and would never over step the boundries of that friendship. And she was your wife with whom you had a great relationship so you did not feel a need to add all the twist and turns of life and potential dynamics it bring into the situation. You cannot fault yourself for that now in the aftermath. Life had not taught you this important lesson yet. Had this have not happened you would have never learned that it can happen in life your life. Though you may of learned that the possibility of it existed in your text book knowledge.
Let me ask you a question as of now do you believe in blind trust?
one reason I took all the blame is because of my education on this stuff.(another is because its easier to fix something you own.)
Oddly those books have not taught you that you can not own what is not yours to own in the first place. Meaning you can try to take on all the blame but it's not all yours to own so you still can not fix it.
But of course this irritates me because she still has feelings for him, and went back after I slipped up.
The preditor/rogue had time to study you in your R. He saw what about you intrigued your wife what she saw as good quality's and he saw what displeased her what she saw as bad qualities. He mimics the good and steps around the bad. Which I believe is how he blurs the lines for your wife. When he is in his game he is on top of it. When he is not in his game. When he is not feeling challenged because he feels he has won already his true colors seep through which distorts your wifes image of him. I am sure that this can become very confusing for your wife that it makes her not be able to truely define where you end and he begins since you both have the same traits. Hence the volleying back in forth between the two of you.
One thing and the only thing I can suggest is you do not take on blame or responsibility for your wife her depression and appearance right now. This man this rogue. He plays a game with people it is his self esteem and lack of it that causes him to get a fix by trying to take what belongs to another. Your wife was a trophey that he was not seeking. He was not after her he was after you. Your persona what you had was not a wife he wanted but a attitude. Yes that same male egotism that blinded you to him. The fact that he again became interested in your wife while you were trying to rebuild your relationship is proof of this. This man emotionally blackmailed your wife into playing in his game. And I am sure that she has come to realize this. That she was just a means to a end to him. The blowout from that realization guilt reponsibility all of it is hers to shoulder and learn from. Let her. You have your own.
After all I had married her. Why would she possible think I was going to leave her? It was so obvious to me, why couldnt she see it?
Gosh this question seems so simple and obviously is not. I wonder the same thing about my H and his rampant jealousy issues. But interestingly enough I wonder if the answer is not in my original post to you.
Thanks for pointing out what a egotistical jerk I am to everyone else here Chrissy No problem I love male bashing ! j/k
In truth I was not trying to point this out to others. I was trying to point out to you that how based on one naive decision in your life. Yours and others lifes were changed drastically and though there is always responsiblilities/ consequences that are repercussion from these types of decisions fault is not always one of them.
You are young You were naive. You have learned a lesson from it if only it be a greater understanding of human nature. You will take that lesson and experience with you through out the rest of your life some where some how that lesson will later enhance some aspect of your life. Though you have paid a dear price for the knowledge you recieved.
And yes as Hairdog pointed out you are young you will do fine.
Which oddly years later showed up a a huge resentment factor for me. I learned I did feel my H had failed to protect me
Sounds like my x.but it showed up right away.
Why would she possible think I was going to leave her? It was so obvious to me, why couldnt she see it? Yeah I see it with my 20/20 hindsight.
You were naive
Well that is a first. never been called that.
I think I prefered egotistical and trusting.
Reminds me, when the affair first started, and she was rationalizing, my x called me stupid, and lazy. LOL. Never been called that either. I gave her a LOOK, (usually I would just wait with no expression or emotion) and it was the only time she stopped in the middle of a tirade and looked like -Oh crap, that was too much. -- Months later she apologized without me ever bringing it up on several occasions.
You and Lfl's views and insights have meant a lot to me. I am extremely grateful, especially since my thread does not belong here.
You were naive Well that is a first. never been called that
Lol you are a hoot. Don't worry your response was very egotiscal you have not lost it.
Though you seem to contain a vast amount of knowledge Blackfoot knowledge without understanding leaves the owner of it only having it in text book form. Understanding comes from the experiencing of it. So even if you know it exist but have not experienced it you can not truely understand it and are naive to certain aspects of what lies within the knowledge. Like it or not.
By definition Naive- Lacking worldly experience and understanding
We are all naive in life until we experience life.
And as to your post not really belonging here. Neither does mine but you know what these people here have helped me more then just about any other person in my life. They do not run you in circles and say "So how do you feel you should feel about this" to the point of making you want to scream "If I knew how I should feel about this I would not be here paying your lazy azz to watch me chase my tale". They give real input and suggestions sometimes it is validation sometimes it is WTF are ya doing and sometimes it is I don't really understand where you are coming from but I just want you to know I am here I am listening. And sometimes just reading others post point to something that I miss that may be running amuck within my own R.
I think your post have great insight. I loved your post to PIP. You completely stepped away from your own sitch and reached out with humanity and support with a dousing of reality. That takes a special person to be able to do that. And one with wounds of there own that are so fresh. In one of my first post to you I said Though you words in some of your post have elicited pure male egotism. They also exhibit your ability to show a more gentle and raw emotional side that masucline males tend to hide or ignore. I find the dynamic in this as oddly facinating. Your honest reply and ability to detach yourself from your own sitch and reach out to another only amplifies my facination/original opinion of you.
Blackfoot- You stated several times that you always take responsibility in the R because you are the man. So ok, you can't go back and redo time but why not even consider the possibility that xW and you could make it work? She reached out to you a few weeks ago and granted, it didn't go well, but isn't she still wanting to fix this? Maybe I misinterpreted that part? You still love her. Your R is F'ed Up but many are on this board. My H and I are still legally separated but we are really trying to make it work. You give everyone on this board advice with such a strong conviction yet you don't seem willing to do everything for your own M. Rip me a new one if I am way off base but she made a mistake, is confused as hell, and is attempting to reach out to you, even within weeks? This is all very fresh. What does she say about going thru with the divorce? Are you absolutely positive you want it? Did I ask you enough questions?
In fact I have for the most part manipulated them like a weapon. When I almost had an affair, I turned all that chemical energy and emotion on my wife. We both loved the inferno that resulted. during her affair my emotiions went all over the place like a fire hose out of control. Shudder. --I had a weak spot that is very commom, my identity with my job. Crazy thing is my contracting pays way more then my chosen career change. and is way more macho, blah blah. 
