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More bits and pieces...
a week ago, H make several comments that have stuck in my mind...not sure why, but guess I'll jot them for future reference...
He commented that at one point he told monster she'd caused such grief and havoc in his life there was nothing more she could do (ulp, wrong kind of challenge to lay out to her), that he said "what are you going to do, tell my wife?" and then asked her "so how about if I tell your mother?" and she got upset...more high school goings on...

that same weekend I was gone several hours getting garden supplies (it is really shaping up nicely!) and H commented "your garden takes all your time and money and there's nothing left for me"...I didnt take it too seriously, but I don't want to completely dismiss it. more mlc stuff, I wonder, kinda sounds like a little kid. In fact I remember D making a similar comment about my horse when she was about 5....

last Tuesday night, H was kinda "grumpy" after his long day...I just stayed kind of backed off. When we went to bed, I gave him space, literally. Out of the dark he asked "why arent you holding me?" I said "I thought maybe you would prefer I didnt tonight", and he said "you always ask and I never turn you down", so I snuggled up and held him. later in the night, he said "hold me, I had a bad dream"...sounded like a little kid again. but I held him.

Monday, we worked on putting together his weight cage (been a long time coming) and while we were doing it, H said "this year we're gonna have a great christmas, we're going to decorate to the 9's and the whole bit, no more of this last minute stuff"; I asked if that meant he wanted to decorate right after thanks giving, and he said "yes" quite emphatically. S was there and gave that plan a thumbs up. I think this may be significant, as the last 2 years have been so sad, I did all the decorating myself 1/2 heartedly, H had NO interest, and frankly I barely got the tree up by christmas eve. I would love for it to be different because H WANTS it to be different.

H also commented that "for a long long time I thought things would go back to the way they were. I thought you were just scared and couldnt believe you really did want me. That when you got past being scared things would go back, but then I saw after a long time that they didnt......
Wow, that sounds like a page out of DR...EXACTLY what the book says, right down to the LONG TIME part of it.
BIG important lesson there. He also said he had been 100% sure that he was leaving, and then he was so caught off guard by my response that he decided to take another look and think again, and then I started changing and things started getting better between us really fast....and then they got better and better between us and HORRIBLE to the point of making him sick between him and monster. And then he began to think "what the hell am I doing?" but he felt so guilty it was hard to get out.

H commented also about this time, once when we were ML or just had, that I should "vamp it up a little" with dark eyes, etc.. Lesson there about excitement in the bedroom? I think so.

Oh, here are my butterflies again, I just got this little email from him:

Quote:

---

Thanks Deb; Actually we are making it through, but everyone is coming in so it’s been really busy again. I’m looking forward to getting home and seeing my sweet heart!! See ya soon Your D

---

I'd sent him a short one at lunch just saying I hoped he'd had a good day....not heard back until now. Am I setting myself up for a BIG fall if I allow myself to believe we've made it???? not that dbing is ever done, I've learned that for sure.


2 weeks ago I had a horrible dream, that I was being sucked out into outer space, just dark and cold nothingness pulling me down, and I was so sad, overwhelmed by sadness. I woke up crying and asked H to hold me, (ok, we both sound like a couple of kids) and he did, and was very very sweet, telling me I had nothing to worry about. He held me and talked to me for a couple of hours. bad thing is I was so out of it from sleep, I don't remember much of what was said. I do recall it was very reassuring. The next morning, H came to me out of the blue and put his arms around me and said "ILY Deb"...and I told him how much it means to hear that, and that I was sorry for waking him and keeping him up so much in the middle of the night. he said "It's ok, if a few hours of lost sleep is what it takes for you to feel better, it's not a problem. We had an important talk, and I'm glad we had it". In the past, H would blow sky high if I woke him up. This is a HUGE change. I just wish I could recall what we talked about.
He also said "I know I have a lot of work to do and I intend to do it"....

He talked about how "bonded" we are and always have been. Weird...I read emails from monster to him saying the exact same thing many months ago. AND, this is the guy who said we got married too fast and things had never been good and we should have never gotten married.

That same day, in passing at home, he smiled at me and said "you're the one" out of the blue....

We had a long discussion about the dynamics of the A and why it lasted so long, and he said he got to the point where he was terrified of "losing us" but that it hurt so terribly to be so hurtful (to monster) that he felt eaten up by guilt, and kept worrying about her, and that is was so hard to be so mean that he kept letting himself go back, he would feel responsible and worry about her and check to see how she was doing and then get sucked back in. He said "it was like having to shoo a little kid away from something bad for them for their own good", meaning having to "shoo" monster away, and not being able to bring himself to do it.

He also said part of what made it so hard the day he 'fell apart" was having his "nose rubbed in it" and seeing what a fool he had been....

and so, here we are. I am so scared to let myself breathe a sigh of relief, but I think i'm about to. I do believe the damnable A is finally, finally over. H just doesnt have the "softness" emotionally that he used to when he talks about monster. I think there may be some twinges of mlc still lingering....

Now it the time to up the "good stuff" even more, I believe.

Hi Deb -

Just giving you a bump up! I hope it is working out - but he's gone back and forth emotionally before (many, many times), so I'd not expect that he may some more. But I hope he comes out of it soon, for your sake!

Hi dfb, thanks for stopping in and the bump. I know you're so right about he goes back and forth so much. It's scary, and I'm really scared to let my guard down for fear he will retreat again.

However, I am starting to feel more certain day by day...as time goes on, he seems to be becoming much calmer and more certain, more comfortable in his own "skin" and home...the settling down that Snodderly talks of maybe????? I hope, finally, that is it.

Several things lead me to think that we are close to "being there", if not "there"...

Last night when he walked in the door from work, he put his arms around me, kissed me and held me, and said "you don't know how much I love you"....that is new (and nice).

He seems to make a point of saying ILY in emails every day. I never dreamed of being able to get that.

A real clincher came last night though. He mentioned again that he wanted family pictures to take to his out of town office. I had bought the frame some time ago, but not gotten them put in it. there are 4 pictures: one of the 2 of us, one of him and the kids, one of S & D and one of all of us together. Frankly, I think I've put off getting them together because I didnt think he'd want one of the 2 of us, and I knew it would hurt, so I've avoided it. But last night when he asked again, I said Ok, I've been meaning to get that done -- which pictures do you want, and he chose those 4 (actually there are 6 total to choose from). I was happy he picked "ours" but didnt say anything and I asked which one he wanted he wanted first in the frame, and yep, he chose "us". I commented that I'm thinner now, and wished the pics reflected that, and he said we should get some new ones taken. This is a guy who flat out refused for YEARS to take any family pictures. I also got out a collage frame of snapshots of the kids that D put together for him her freshman year at college for Fathers day. She did it for his office, and he never would take it and she was hurt by that. I got that out of the closet for him and dusted it off last night, and he seemed quite happy to have it....before he refused to even look at it, let alone take it to his office. Weird thing is, he evidently has no memory what so ever of D giving that to him, etc. Really strange, but I've read so many comments in the mlc forum about them just plain not remembering stuff.

Also, interestingly, today is casual day at work, and he choose to wear the special rock climbing shirt he reclaimed from ow, commented it would be "in the face"....still so high schoolish, this sniping at each other. I'm guessing it must mean there is still some kind of emotional investment, I dont' know...but I do remember Snodderly telling me several months ago things were going to get interesting and to pull up a seat on the curve and watch their parade go by.

He was talkinng about monster this morning, and said "you don't know the 1/2 of it"...I am truely astounded at this woman...she thrives on creating chaos and drama and misery in her life and in others lives. she is I guess pretty typical of borderline personality disorder....just amazing....very exciting I can see, when you've been around me for so long it would be a complete change.

ummmm, lets see....she always has 3 guys involved with her at the same time....H pretty much knows he wasnt the only one....and then she plays them one against the other to create chaos and get trouble. When she was in college she lived with a drug dealer during the week, while she was dating her fiance on the weekends. She was actually a mule for the dealer....had another druggie she was living with hold a gun to her head.
I guess she told H this on their way to "our" vacation spot as they drove through her college town and she started talking about her college days. (She was put on probation for plaguerism and bad grades and cutting classes). Evidently this was the 1st time H began to hear all of this, and it really put up a red flag, that she realized he was picking up on all this and concerned and she became very "quiet" about it. Lord I'd think so!

I cant imagine. I really cant. it is beyond me. And then she has this poor child that she drug from guy's house to guy's house....now she drags one guy after another into the childs home. H said he is guessing the D is really going to be fed up with adults and rebelling big time...

I kind of got off track there, though. I am really hoping that H's mood swings will be leveling off. I know that's what Snodderly has said to watch for.

THEY SEEM TO BE doing just that, is the good news. And the picture seems HUGE to me.

I gotta run but I almost forgot something I wanted to post. monster is being such an inappropriate pain with H's clients, and that's the wrong thing to do...he will take a lot himself, but he is incredibly protective towards his patients. anyway, next week he and monster's supervisor have a meeting with med staff at the hospital in the town where his main office is. He told me this morning that he is hoping he will have a chance to visit with her in private, and that he will say "you've probably heard about this...it is over, but it's being taken out on my clients and I'd appreciate your help.....

I thought that was big.

Deb--I love checking in with you. You do inspire me to keep working at this. I wish my H could be as forthcoming with his feelings as yours is, but he just can't express himself that way. I just have to watch and keep looking for his 'round about' way of letting me know things. I hope your H can finally get some peace from Monster after the meeting with her super. I am very happy for you--what an awesome success story you are!

Good work Deb, I needed to hear your success today. It's great to see someone further down the path I want to be on (and believe that I am on). We're not out of the woods yet but I am seeing positives.

Enjoy Deb

Thanks Mollie and Phoenix...I'm humbled that my "saga" is inspiring to you. I tell you, this has been one long hard tough white-knuckling ride. I can hardly believe the light is finally at the end of the tunnel. But I do believe it is. Honestly if my sitch can turn around, there is hope for a lot of sitchs. It has taken 2 1/2 years, and it seemed so hopeless for so long. H even said he was 100% sure he was leaving. I know looking back that his mind was made up before I ever found out about the affair. He was so cold and distant and hateful. it was obvious that he hated being around me...he had shut himself off from the kids, family, everyone. He was gone in spirit and in mind, just waiting for an excuse to take his body away.

If someone had told me then that I would ever get to have the husband I have today, I would have never believed it was possible. We still have a ways to go before I get all I want...but I seems it may be possible.

Frankly, H is more romantic and demonstrative and loving than he ever was in the whole time I've known him. He holds me, brings me coffee, tells me how much he loves me. I find it still kind of hard to relax and enjoy, but he really does seem to be more "stable" and "settled" and at peace. Its hard to describe. But it's very obvious.

Here's a clincher, I guess: he took the pictures to his office today. the snapshot collage D put together for him 5 years ago, and the family photos. For the last year, I've told myself that would be one guage of when things were truely "there".
I talked with D23 on the phone last night...told her about the photos, and she sighed and said "is he taking the ones I fixed for him"...when I told her yes, her comment was "mom, the pictures ARE big!"

I know there are reasons to be concerned after his suicidal gestures...and I havent dicounted them, I'm watching carefully, but he seems SO much better emotionally, it's incredible. He is better than he has been in years. many years. and it seems to be down to his "core". I know that makes no sense.

I hope he is out of the tunnel now for good. I feel like he must be. He is truely like a different person, a much better man than he was before.

There are still issues, he's still frustrated at work, but somehow he has a different perspective on it.

One thing I NEVER thought would happen is that he sees, finally after all this time, monster as she really is. Honestly it's like somebody took a blindfold off of him. I believe his despair the night he had such a "melt down" was from that reality hitting him smack in the face.

I never in all my wildest dreams would have believed I could have H walk in the door from work and pull me into his arms and kiss me and hold me. NEVER would I have dreamed that. I always wanted it, but he was "just not that kind of guy". It is such an incredible gift. and I tell him that often. Never again will I take him so for granted.

I'm blabbering, probably none of it makes sense. But I believe that finally, after years of pain, my H is back and better than ever. I keep asking myself "how do you know?" and the answer is elusive, but somehow he is just so totally different. His face even looks different. his skin tone is even different...he is sleeping soundly, he is not sick to his stomach, he is not irritable, his brow isn't furrowed. sometimes he whistles. he laughs. he is starting to tease me again. Maybe one of the biggest things is that he talks openly about monster, and the emotion is gone when he does.

He also talked this morning about that he has set and is enforcing boundaries with her regarding their professional interaction...that there is to be no personal interaction at all, that he will not respond to inappropriately intrusive work-related questions, and now evidently he cc's EVERY reply to any work related emails to her supervisor...he is determined to make sure she has no "ammo", which evidently she does, always complains about how mean everyone is to her, from coworkers to clients.

so, anyway, gang, there is hope even in really tough sitchs. It takes a long long long time and a lot of pain and angst and patience and prayer. And stubborness

Deb,
A nice job of handling your situation. Be careful that you don't get your expectations up too high. He's still got a ways to go before he completely settles down. If he's truly hit bottom, done his ugly depression and withdrawal, then you can breathe a sigh of relief for acceptance has come.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but take things slowly and see how it all plays out. You've done an excellent job of dbing. Be patient a while longer because it does appear that the fog is lifting slowly but surely. The settling down period takes 9-18 months and it will require more patience as you will want to push hard to finally have him back in one piece. Don't push. Listen and validate. Compliment and admire him for what he does for you and your family. These little ingredients will help as well.

It still amazes me how similar are the words and phrases and actions our WAS's present. From forgetting hurtful things, to the extreme statements. My H also made suicidal statements, although rather ambiguous ones, i.e. said he wishes he was dead, but not that he would actually kill himself. This made me very nervous. Also, my H is far more connected to me than I can ever remember. He is also very loving and affectionate - much more than he has ever been in our 20 year marriage. This MLC is like a disease. I see the OW as a bacteria that has to be treated. I actually told that to H. He still cannot believe that he did what he did.

Keep up the good work. I feel like you and I are in similar rungs of the ladder, so to speak, although I have a lot of trust issues still to deal with, and I think some anger, especially for the OW which I know is not good for me, and I should let it go. How have you dealt with that?