That goes along with what many C's will initially ask you when you first start therapy. "What if this is just who this person is, can you live with that?" I have been asked that question by 3 counselors about my H; it's the 1st thing each of them asked me.
Some people are simply the way they are. It's not necessarily a mattern of a pattern. I don't know why it bothers me so much that people keep looking for patterns in LD/HD behaviors...it just seems to. I know people look for understanding and patterns can help...but sometimes it is as simple as this is how a person is.
There are things in our lives that can influence our SD: kids, family, work, addictions, hobbies, hormonal changes etc...that we can control and work with. Sometimes however, it is simply that this is who the person is we are living with.
For many of the people on this BB I do believe there are more issues at play in their R's, most of them I do believe can recover what they had or want...I believe this is definitely attainable.
For some though I think sometimes they are wanting their spouse to be someone they never really were to begin with. Take my parents for example. My mom has NEVER been (in my memory of her) many of the things my dad wants her to be....i.e. outgoing, more social. She has ALWAYS been very shy, very quiet, very introverted...not into going to parties, not into socializing because she is so painfully shy. Dad now though gets so frustrated (38 years later) that she isn't more outgoing. We talked one day and he said "well she used to be!" I told him that to my recollection, she has NEVER been the way he wants her to be...so why is he now so unhappy with who she is? Why is it that now, almost 40 years later he wants her to change to be someone she's never been...or at least that I have never known her to be and would find really hard to believe she ever was?
See, I think I can be ok with some of the things in my M because I've accepted that perhaps this is simply just who my H is. Some of his behavior goes along perfectly with the profession he's chosen....airline mechanic. From what our C has explained to me, many people in his high-stress profession behave the same way he does....very emotionally contained, very stiff on the exterior, very controlled with their actions and what they give out. She has seen several couples just like us in her office where the H has the same profession as my H...with similar problems to our own. I found that interesting.
Does that mean my H cannot give me what I need...no. My H may have certain behaviors that are simply a part of who he is...but that doesn't mean he cannot learn how to give me what I need too. And now that I know certain behaviors of his are simply who he is...I can accept that there will be times he won't behave as I'd "prefer". He most likely will never show "desire" as I'd like to see it. But if I can learn to recognize what his shows of "desire" are...then I can learn to accept & appreciate that....and work with it.
Over the past year I have had to redefine many things for myself and have found things like "desire" come in many forms. But if I am looking for my H to show me desire within my parameters of what it should be...I may completely miss how HE shows me he desires me.
And as for a deep connection...I think that's something else that could be re-defined. Your W may think she has one with you CeMar, but it's not within the parameters of what you view a "deep connection" to be so you miss it.
GEL: all levity aside, I think you're absolutely right. There are core things in our partner that just aren't going to change. I'm coming to terms with some of that with my bf... I don't know if the sex stuff will ever change, but he is so good in other areas, and especially since he started therapy, he has become so kind and sensitive-- it's mind-boggling. He said that sweet guy was in there hiding all along. The good qualities he has are all wrapped up with who he is, and I'm possibly on the verge of falling in love with him.
ZB- is there a sweet lady hiding inside your W? Why did you fall in love with her? What did you see in her back then?
Well I did think of you when I wrote that...but it wasn't directly written for just you LOL. It's only natural to look for patterns to try to gain an understanding of things. I guess for me though I can accept that sometimes there's simply not always a pattern.
I ask lots of questions to gain understanding, just like you do. But I guess the difference between you and I (and no ennegrams on this please) is that I look to understand the person as an individual....not compare the person to other groups of people to understand. I hope that made sense...and that it came across as intended.
Let me chime in on the animals. I like animals but I am not obsessed with them. We don't have anything but fish in an outside pond right now and I am happy with that.
Against my better judgement I let my PMS and my disappointment at yet another sexless weekend get to me. I brought it up with H and he recited another predictable litany of all the things that make him tired, frustrated, etc... After an hour of that I tried to sum things up and end the conversation by kind of "summarizing". H saw that as reasserting my original point and letting him know that I still felt all those same things.
Then he blasted me. At the top of his lungs he told me about three things he was ticked at me about and basically let me know that I was selfish (without using those words). In his mind, wanting us to have a SL equates to me saying, "I want everything. Me. Me. Me." We got to a better place by the end of the convo in that we reached civility again. Once again I feel that H got to "get out of" things to an extent becauase he was able to prove his point to show me one thing we acn let go in order to have more time for ourselves." We also got back into him feeling like a bad husband and me being disappointed.
I am wrung out. I fought his wall and in the end his wall won. I am completely exhausted of this. I hate the place we are in now. I am in my crucible. "Why do I insist on begging this man to want me?" "What do I get out of prodding the sleeping bull of his insecurities?" "What do I get out of even asking the question of why don't you want me."
I need to realize. H wants me or he doesn't. Mostly he doesn't. If I plan to continue our life together then I better get real with that reality. I guess I better figure out how to be happy as a "single" woman with H as my occasional lover. Oh boy.
Quote: . "Why do I insist on begging this man to want me?" "What do I get out of prodding the sleeping bull of his insecurities?" "What do I get out of even asking the question of why don't you want me."
Ouch. I have been asking these questions for awhile.
A few months ago, they all seemed to lead to the suggestion that it was better to get out of the M. I re-committed to the M, and now, the answers seem to be 1)because I want a SL, and the only way I'm going to get one morally is with my W; 2) I get her to be pissed off but maybe prod her out of her comfort zone and get her to grow; 3)I get her to tell me that she loves me, but doesn't feel like showing it in the way I want her to, and then I get to tell her that she needs to try harder.
But it still feels like crap on a daily basis because, objectively speaking, I continue to live in sexless marriage.
Quote: In his mind, wanting us to have a SL equates to me saying, "I want everything. Me. Me. Me."
I'm familiar with this response. For some reason, my invitation to ML was seen not as an invitation to play (which is the way I saw it) but as an command/demand to WORK! Even though ML consisted mostly of me sucking him for an hour then getting myself off with my hand...
Thanks. That is pretty much what I think on most days. However, today I'm thinking more like this....Who died and made me H's boss? What right do I have to decide how he should grow. Maybe it is me who needs to grow up. Maybe I need to accept things as they are. And then there is there is a little tiny voice pointing out that our lack of a SL is probably my fault I just haven't figured out in what way yet.
(((((Karen))))) I can't add much anything constructive since I am also tired of banging my head against a solid wall. Maybe giving up is a necessary step in the process, seems to be starting to get somewhere for HP. Just wish it didn't feel so bad.
Karen, I'm not saying that you or I need to be the boss and force our partners to grow up, but I am saying that accepting the situation isn't going to work for me. It's just going to lead to resentment, or worse than that, apathy. And yes, I need to grow, too. Isn't life just an extended opportunity to keep growing?
Keep on plugging away, karen. What else have you got to do?
