Karen, If I was anything less than at the walking away stage (which I'm not doing literally, only figuratively) I think that statement would have ruined anything I felt for him. But I just sorta listened to it and thought, Yep that's the MrH I know! He was specifically talking about the sex, I should add. He meant that he will pursue the sexual aspect of the R heavily but eventually will give up on it, if I don't turn back into my old self and that will be the end of that. I shouldn't sell him short--he's very worried and devastated at the recent turn of events but he is not a take charge person. He will not fight for me or try to win me back. If I come back emotionally it will have to be for other reasons than his winning attitude.
You are right especially in Lou's sitch. I perceive BB as being rather passive-agressive in which case she might understand but choose to misconstrue. My H would know exactly what "not here with me" means. He would probably just provide an excuse or explanation and expect sex to continue with him minimally involved. I would have to walk away for that scenario to go anywhere.
It's taken me saying some pretty drastic things to my LDH to get him to wake up too guys. I did have to start talking about the inevitability of the big "D" and the fact that I won't stay in this situation if it doesn't change.
My telling him that so clearly over the last month seems to have struck a chorde...at least to the point that he's trying to open up more in counseling, it's more than he'd been doing. And it's been happening more so since I made my position REALLLLLLY clear to him.
I'm coming to the conclusion that we as the HD spouses simply don't put your proverbial foot down hard enough, clearly enough.
Honeypot...telling your H you don't love him anymore...that's an eye-opener for him.
IMPO it's much like me telling my H. H...if you don't do something I WILL LEAVE, YOU WILL LOSE WHAT YOU HAVE HERE. I AM STRONG ENOUGH TO DO THIS ON MY OWN, I CAN DO IT ON MY OWN, I WILL DO IT ON MY OWN IF I HAVE TO...IT'S UP TO YOU TO DECIDE WHAT YOU WANT THE OUTCOME TO BE....YOU CAN CHANGE THIS. Sorry guys, wasn't really yelling...just speaking emphatically LOL.
I'm learning that if I really want him to take me seriously...I have to speak very seriously about it. This is important to me so I need to be willing to put the weight behind my words to show how serious I am. But this is something I'm willing to do. Heck, I'm willing to smack my H upside the head with a 2x4 if I have to, if it means it will save my M.
GEL - you have come a long way since I first arrived on this board. So has HP. I am quickly following behind. I simply must communicate more clearly with H. I simply must stop hiding from confrontation. My first M left me with a lot of scars about confrontation and a lot of fears about both staying and leaving. Like HP, I'm not leaving. At least not bodily but staying can be good or it can be crappy. That really is not my choice alone. H gets some say so in it. Once, when we were dating H said I won't always be able to give you everything you want but I will always try to give you what you need. Time to ante up because this M is not only falling short of what I want but also what I need. It isn't enough for "us" to be an afterthought. Our life together isn't the icing on a stale cake.
This is one major problem I have with people (including myself pre-separation) who go into M thinking no matter what I REALLY say and do, my S will ALWAYS put up with it, deal with it, suffer it, whatever. Why? Because we a MARRIED and that's just the way it is. I just feel that is a horrible and dangerous attitude to have. Probably most of us on this board no longer feel that way but some of you still might. If your S KNOWS FOR A FACT (because you told him/her) that you will never leave the M, some of our S would rather live a crappy, miserable, boring M than have to make a true effort to change. Yuck. It makes me sad. I am frustrated just reading some of these posts tonight. I think I'll sign of and go read a trashy novel
I do understand how you feel on that point. However, even those of us who aren't going anywhere for religious, personal or family reasons have our limits. The fact is that no one can know for certain that their spouse isn't going anywhere. Don't kid yourself folks. I would bet my bottom dollar that my ex thought I would NEVER go anywhere. He was sure that he had mentally kicked me around to the point where I couldn't. Guess what he WAS WRONG!
H and I had a nice dinner out after a long day of working in the house. H and I also had the beginnings of a productive discussion I think. I said something to H about the fact that I get frustrated when we have long lay offs in our SL. He said that he doesn't get so much physically frustrated as emotionally frustrated. He expressed the desire to work on keeping our committments to some reasonable amount in the near future so that we can have a life together. Caveat here - what is "reasonable" to H is more than most people can handle. I was suprised that H found the layoffs frustrating in any sense. He doesn't ever say it. I wonder if that is because he doesn't want to "complain" about something that "can't be helped." That is honestly the feeling I get. The good part is that the door is open, "the talk" is in a good place rather than a bad one and we are having a nice weekend together.
Karen, At least he finds the layoffs frustrating. I get no indication whatsoever, other than a verbal "yes, I do miss it" from MrsGGB. We had a long discussion again last night about me needing to see some signs of her wanting me, and she feeling inadequate and that nothing she does is enough. We haven't ML in over 3 weeks, and she hasn't shown even the smallest sign that she misses it or looks forward to it. I'd feel better if she even said she felt frustrated by the layoff instead of feeling frustrated trying to please me. It is though anything sexual between us is only to keep me happy, which is not at all satisfying. I was more or less ok with my recent LDness, but after the talk last night it is starting to sink in that this is just the way it is and nothing is going to change it. Please pass the prozac.
Hi Karen It sounds like you had some verbal abuse in your ex relationship so it was a good thing to get out. I do not have that in my M but I do struggle with what constitutes an ok reason to "get out." I want to make my M work, especially for the kids sake. Is that right or wrong? I have stated before that if it wasn't for the kids I would take my freedom and run. Of course then I think the M will be doomed later on when the kids are older. I just keep going in circles. I think I need to just take it one day at a time at this point and stop worrying about the future. Anything could happen and trying to guess at the outcome is not helpful.
My point wasn't whether I was right to get out of my other M. I am positive that I did the right thing there. My point was that we are never in a position to reliably guess what someone else will do or not or what they will do if driven far enough. That is what you are struggling with. Is endless mediocrity in a R enough to cause someone to leave and feel justified in doing so. Some would say yes.
After a 10 year M to a very troubled man I read some book by Dr. Phil where he suggested that what constituted enough of a reason to leave was whether your own self respect and personal integrity were at stake. Is it? In my current M, I feel there is a great deal to work with. My H is a good man, a loving man, a good Dad. He isn't as sexually demonstrative as I would like. He isn't as forthcoming about personal feelings as I would like. That isn't enough to leave. My self respect requires that I address it and try to make it better. That is what I am doing. Spiritually I believe that my marriage is a sacrament. I have a responsibility to God to do my level best not just to stay married but to do so productivly and happily for both H and me. That keeps me in the game too.
It sounds like you don't know why you are there anymore. What does "for the kids" entail? There are many ways to keep a family intact "for the kids" without doing the rollercoaster ride of trying to fix marital problems. Do you want to fix things or are you just hanging out waiting for them to grow up? It sounds like you have some decisions to make. Maybe some personal counseling?
Well folks we ML three times this weekend. Woo Hoo. H was interested, we talked before and after, and I could feel that he also had desire. Did we try different positions? Did H come after me like a starving man? Did he praise my beauty? No. However, we had good, connected sex that we both enjoyed.
Finally, I actually asked H this weekend whether he thought I was pretty. I generally avoid these kind of "no win" questions but I tell ya, sometimes I just wonder. H lauged. I asked him why he was laughing. He said that he was laughing because he said that he thought I was the most beautiful woman he had ever met and that he has thought so since the first time he saw me. Ok - I had to elicit the answer but the answer was given in the same spirit that I asked. I asked a genuine question. I believe that I got a genuine answer.
I need to figure out how to sustain the momentum of good feelings, comfortable connectedness and sex. Maybe it is time to write some goals for this week... I always try to praise H, thank H for things he does etc... This weekend I gave H a really nice massage after his long workout. I'm thinking that I should come up with some more creative goals that enhance our recent connectedness. My fear is that I will wind up frustrated and disappointed when H gets increasingly tired out as the week moves along and that by the end of the week I will feel hurt and neglected. When that happens I feel like the connectedness and loving feelings that I experienced were just conterfeit. We've been down this road before. I'm not awfulizing or making a prophecy of dire results here just strategizing about how not to wind up in that spot.
