Been thinking about the general downturn of emotions on this board and especially about HP and Mr. HP. So, Honey called a spade a spade. She had been telling Mr. HP all along that this kind of M and the rejection of a whole side of her as a person would eventually kill her feelings of passion and romantic love. Guess what - it did. I don't know that it will stay that way forever but it certainly makes sense. KWIM?
I called H this morning after a brutal night up with baby all night (she had shots & a cold) and left him a long cell phone message. I a sick too. I was courteous. I told him that it would be a long whiny message so it might be best to listen to it at lunch or on the way home rather than first thing in the am.
I went through the list of things that I am concerned about: some kid stuff, some job stuff etc... then I told him that it seems that I am either invisible or complaining. That in order to be visible I have to be the malcontent. That as far as I was concerned he and I barely have a relationship anymore. That I didn't care whether he took Italian but I did care that he never considered me anywhere in that equation. It never occurred to him to include me or even to feel badly on my behalf that I couldn't attend. That I am hating how I feel, that I need an actual response from him and that I need his help. I don't know what all else I said. I guess I took him by suprise because he left me a message to say that while he didn't understand all that I am feeling that he wanted to tell me that he loves me.
I guess I'm not sure how I feel about that. As I have so often said before. Love me how? Like what? Like a roomate? A good friend? Like your sweet old Aunt Bessie? Like I love you but I'm not in love with you? I just don't know.
Quote: I guess I took him by suprise because he left me a message to say that while he didn't understand all that I am feeling that he wanted to tell me that he loves me.
I guess I'm not sure how I feel about that. As I have so often said before. Love me how? Like what? Like a roomate? A good friend? Like your sweet old Aunt Bessie? Like I love you but I'm not in love with you? I just don't know.
This is where that list comes in.
I want to feel that I am important to you. Not as your wife or the mother or your children. As me.
Love me by making fun plans to be with me, dancing or dinner or language lessons at least X number of times per X.
You know that excitement you get about getting with your buddies? I want to see that excitement aimed toward me on occasion. What can we do to help make that happen?
I want to be the focus of your spare time for a while. I am feeling lonely and lost and that my existance in your life is more of a burden than a blessings. I am devastated when I sense that my needs are little more than a form of pressure to you. What can we do to facilitate a different outcome?
I am a woman with strong sexual desires and needs. I want you to come after me, respond sexually to me on a regular basis in the way you focus on me when we are making babies. What can we do to ensure that this happens on a regular basis?
Thanks Mrs. That is a great start. I fail to understand how these things come as such a suprise to H when I continually express the same types of concerns. They might come with different words or issues attached but they all still fit in the same category. He is a very smart man. I wish he would stop acting so dumb. I am sure I do the same thing to him in my own way.
I have tried to put numbers and schedules into place. H resists that like poison. He wants to be "spontaneous." I pointed out to him that "spontaneity" gets us sex every two to four weeks (sometimes six) and dinner together once every couple of months. He just says he'll "try harder." And then he does. For a few weeks.
I really liked what you said about being seen as a source of pressure. I liked what you said about having strong needs and desires and wanting to be responded to sexually. I liked what you said about wanting him to be excited about an activity with me. I have said all that in one form or another many times. Sometimes, in my own head, all I hear when I make these lists is "I want. I want. I want." I DON'T want to be brat. I DONT want to be a complainer. I DON'T want my honest efforts at having a healthier, happier marriage to result in an H who begrudgingly goes through the motions - of sex, of fun, of date night, of talking, of touching....
Quote: H resists that like poison. He wants to be "spontaneous." I pointed out to him that "spontaneity" gets us sex every two to four weeks (sometimes six) and dinner together once every couple of months. He just says he'll "try harder." And then he does. For a few weeks.
Anything of import is worth having time made for it.
While we can spontaneously decide to worship God, we also schedule in that church attendance thing.
While we can spontaneously start a new project at work, we still put in our 40 or so hours a week.
We can spontaneously visit our friends, but they won't be friends if we never plan to spend time with them.
We can spontaneously have a snack anytime, but meals have to be planned for.
While single, we can spontaneously ask someone out for a date, but once there is a steady relationship, just spontaneously dropping by on Saturday while never calling beforehand is most likely going to kill the relationship.
F*ck try harder.
Plan better.
You've tried it the spontaneous way and it hasn't worked well.
Time for another plan.
It might not work well. But you won't know until it has been implemented for a time long enough to make a determination.
Well said Mrs. Nop. Funny, after my looooong whiny voice mail yesterday H said "let's go out again together this weekend" - two whole weekends in a row. That NEVER happens. I think I will address the scheduling issue then.
Predictably, we ML last night. H was interested over the weekend but didn't do anything about it because I was still spotting from my period. Then I had my little whiny phone session and of course he thinks to himself "She's probably miffed because we haven't had sex in weeks - guess I should do something about that." We did. It was fine.
When it has been a few weeks between I have a hard time "getting started." The emotional connection is just too weak. I guarantee that if we ML again right now I would lubricate quickly and "o" several times. I would have better access to my feelings of passion for my H, better connection with my body etc... When it is too long between I get so used to ignoring my body and the sexual signals it sends I just have trouble. When it is too long between my passion for my H and my marrige wanes. I feel as if we really are just roomates and I put up my defenses so I can live that way. Anyone else feel this way. Anyone else find the much longed for sex to be very sub-par but if you ML again within a short period of time (say a day or two) it is MUCH better?
Re: karen1 When it has been a few weeks between I have a hard time "getting started." The emotional connection is just too weak. I guarantee that if we ML again right now I would lubricate quickly and "o" several times. I would have better access to my feelings of passion for my H, better connection with my body etc... When it is too long between I get so used to ignoring my body and the sexual signals it sends I just have trouble. When it is too long between my passion for my H and my marrige wanes. I feel as if we really are just roomates and I put up my defenses so I can live that way. Does your H know this? and how your body/emotions work at your level in an intelectual way?
Karen1, I wish I had heard something like this 30+ years ago. I was under the impression women thought once or twice a week was pleantf for them and more would actually lessen their desire.
You are saying about the same thing honetpot asid several months ago. The first time is to take the edge off. The second time to start to feel good. And the third time to really feel satisfied and fulfilled, or something like that.
Karen, Absolutely. The first, and sometime even the second time after a relatively long layoff seems to be almost always ho-hum at best. Funny, I suspect it is the same way for MrsGGB too, but she hasn't bothered to notice the pattern, so after a lack-luster session, she's not quick to consider a second shot. Several not so hot sessions in a row, and I can imagine it becomes a case of why bother, I'm not missing anything anyway.
GGB, who for some odd reason isn't even missing the sex right now, even though it has been about 2 weeks.
Well guys. Good too know I'm not weird or I am weird but in good company. Yeah - what HP said about the three times. If the sex was 3 times/week every week then it would be fine. It is just when the sex is non-existent then we do it once, then let another week or two go by that it is really lackluster. Yes, I think I will mention it to my H. The lay-offs are murder.
I have a feeling he was wondering where his quick to arouse wife was last night. For the first time I actually took his hand and changed the position because he was trying so hard to get me aroused it was starting to get physically irritating and a little painful.
Of course, another thing that would have helped would have been for H to change the "routine" and try something different - throwing in a charge of real desire for me would have brought on plenty of shivers of pleasure. He just kinda seems to keep a tight rein on his sexuality. God forbid when your partner isn't lubricating that you stop with the squeezy bits and just spend a few minutes kissing her passionately and telling her how sexy she is. Piece of advice guys - when you are doing what usually works and it isn't - do something else!
Frequency of sex effects men and women in opposite ways. You might want to read "How sexual frequency effects women". I think you are experiencing what they talk about.
Yep Cemar that is exactly what I'm talking about. It is rather unpleasant after a long hiatus to have that kind of physical reaction. I wish H were the kind of guy who would think to himself - gee that nice and twice would be nicer! The only times we ever go twice or more is on vacation or when we were first dating and I initiated the second time. Sigh......
