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When H and I got married we were both pretty HD, but when he got into the porn stuff, I allowed my self-esteem to plummet, and would vary from HD to LD. My H remained HD, and would get angry and upset with me, but would not see that his actions had anything to do with how I felt. All water under the bridge now, I guess.

It seems now, I am back to normal, and he is LD, or something. He does not like to talk about sex, or about our needs (never has), until it gets to boiling points, then everything he has bottled up comes spewing out. Or if I tell him my needs, when he has asked me to do so, then he deliberately ignores those needs. If I ask him why he does this, he says "well, now it won't seem natural if I respond". Ugh! He hasn't done that in awhile, but when I ask him now, why he isn't interested in my, sexually, he comes up with some weak excuse after another. Sometimes, he seems interested, and I know that if I pursue it, he will respond, but I am done with pursuing him - for now. I did that for 8 months, where we would ML everyday (sometimes up to 5 times), only to find out he was still lying to me. Finally, we came back together, and he lied again! I told him then, that he has gone past the point of having a last chance, and that if he wanted this M to work, then I would have to see some more effort from his side. And, you know what, I saw less effort! So! What does that tell me? I have no idea, but I'm not putting myself out there again, just to have my feelings trampled on. I am nicely detached, and at this point, it won't matter to me if he stays or goes. I am done with feeding his ego too. Time for him to grow up, I think. I have worked on all my issues, so he can do so too. I am almost at the point of being done with waiting for some sort of indication that he is interested in me romantically/sexually speaking. He tells me several times a day, that he loves me, he is affectionate, and sometimes playful, and we go out on dates - all very positive points. But, there it ends!

I just don't know what to do, other than put myself out there again, and make myself vulnerable to him again. However, he has proven that to do so, is to invite a lot of pain and hurt. So, I am affectionate back, tell him I love him, am also playful, and happy to go on our dates. But, there it ends. It seems we are in a stand-off. So weird!

There will come a time (knowing myself) where I will just let it all go, and leave. I was at that point last year before he begged for me to take him back, for one last chance, then I found out his lie, and he begged again for another last chance. How many last chances should anyone have, before the LBS is just being stupid?

I don't feel he owes me anything, or want him to make up for what he has done to me and our family. I have let it all go, except for the odd flashback, or my lack of trust (not just in him, but in most people now, unfortunately, and I am trying to work on that). I just want us to have the marriage we had before all the porn cr*p, and before the MLC garbage, and EA. We had each other's back then, we could talk to each other about anything, we loved each other very deeply, and ML often (not too much, and not too little, IMO). We were connected! But now, it seems, as if we are wary of each other, at least, I know I am of him, especially in this last year.

I have asked him to go into IC'ing, or MC'ing, but he doesn't want to. He is open to Retrovouille, so I am looking into that. I just don't know what else to do. I just won't compromise my still tender emotional health.

I will give it some time, however, and then push for something, and see where it goes, but until then, I take it one day at a time.

It's hard for any of us to face our mistakes, I'm sure this is the case with him. The porn thing is a hard habit to break, very hard to shake, if you ever do. Until he realizes that it will always be a factor. You ask any guy about something 10 or so years ago and you'll be lucky if they can get most of the details. Ask them about some porn, the details will come back quite clear. It's quite a destructive tool.

Keep working on yourself and avoid the malicious attitude, even if you feel justified, it will only cause you more pain. Luckily earlier in my life I had a sitch were I did become very bitter about something. Fortunately I had a friend who got me over and past it, that made a huge difference in my life. I would like to say that I'm completely there on this issue, but the fight continues on every day. I'm winning, near the line, but still struggling.

Did I come across as malicious, or bitter? If I did, Phoenix, then the impression, I think, is wrongly read. I am not bitter toward my H, or treat him maliciously in any way. He has seen the permanent changes in me, and yet still chooses to do what he does. I accept this, as I know I cannot change him or control him. He has to do it himself. However, what I can control and change, is me, and I am not going to spend the rest of my life hoping for some paltry handout from him, that will fulfill just a few of my needs. I will not wait forever, for him to work at gaining back my trust. I have been very patient (far more so, than I thought I ever could be, because I am not a naturally patient person). I only bring up the porn, to show the trend of our SD's, and how my LD was formed. I have forgiven him for it, he sought counselling for it, and seems to be over it. I hope so, for his sake. I worked hard at improving my self esteem, so that I could gain back my SD, and be a good sexual partner to him, but he sees none of that. Quite sad, really - for him! He kept on messing up, lying, and not even trying to hear what I had to say. He does what he thinks I want, and that's a huge pity, because he is missing the mark. I have told him, but still he persists.

I have a wonderful H, in many ways. He is a great dad, too. He provides for our family, and I have always appreciated him for this, even though I have worked most of our married life too. I know he tries, and I do give him credit for that, but (and isn't there always a but) he is just not emotionally or intimately involved, and won't see what I am trying to show him. He chose to screw it all up with his behaviour, and as patient as I have been, there is only so much I can take, and I am reaching very near the end of my tether. I have not told him this lately, because when I have told him before, he would get upset, even crying, but still he would ignore my pleas. So! What's girl to do?

I don't feel justified about anything! I had my part in the negativity in our M. I don't punish him, in fact, I try my hardest to be there for him, support him as much as I am able, try and do things with him. I am no martyr, and never have been. I just vent these feelings here, in the hope that someone would be able to give me some feedback, some other way I could communicate with my H, that will get through to him. I fear he is going to leave it all too late, and I will be gone. I am not bitter, just really, really sad, to the point of almost being depressed because I feel helpless to change, or even inspire change in my H.

Anyway, I know you are trying to help, Phoenix, but in this regard, maybe no-one can. As you advised, I will continue to work on myself, and I will rethink my sitch in about 6 months, and see where things are then. Right now, I am confused, hurt, but determined to do what I can without exposing my already raw emotions to any further damage.

Hi there, I also feel I'm fighting an uphill battle, it's so disheartening at times that I also despair, wanting more and knowing that my marriage is still struggling.

I plan to give it my all, until a certain amount of time, that if I don't see any or very little progress in his part I will also take a hard look, don't want to live in a loveless marriage. I do see some small progress, do you see any progress, postive signs on his part? I know your H doesn't want to do C, but, is there anything he does differently now that gives you some hope?

I love your scriptural quote, kind of puts it all in perspective.

I just feel so disheartened today. I can't even get myself motivated enough to work out, or anything other than sit on the computer. I guess I just have to work at being positive again - somehow. It's been a long time since I felt like this - just want to lie down and cry. Just have to get out of this rut.

Sorry, just venting.

I'm feeling a little blue myself, 'tis ok, pass the wine this way

I do want too much too fast, I'm thinking of holding off my horses when iniating sex, i want him to win me back some how, I want him to want me like before. Guess stoping the affection on my end wont' help, but I need to stop being so available and needy. Ok, sorry to highjack your thread, Hang in there gal, its just one of those days))))))))))))))))

Trying to catch up on your story. How long were you two separated? He moved out?

Play some upbeat music. That might help you feel less depressed. Just a suggestion. It usually makes me feel better.

~EE

I like to watch something funny on tv, to perk up my mood. Been watching Craig Ferguson tonight - funny guy!

In the meantime, my H had noticed that I'm not myself, and we had a little discussion earlier tonight, and he feels I am still angry. I told him I'm not angry, but I am hurt, and confused by his lack of action (for want of a better phrase). I explained that I need to be able to talk about things, but when I do, then he gets defensive, and upset, so then I just shove it away. Eventually, I am going to call it quits if things don't change soon, and I think deep down he knows it, but still seems stuck. This is affecting me physically, and psychologically, I think. Ugh! I've had enough of my life. I think I need to get away for awhile.

Thanks EE and Cat for the encouragement, and understanding. I don't get that from anyone else in my home life, that's for sure. I don't know what I would've done without this bb. I think I would be D'ed by now (which may not be such a bad idea), but probably still festering with resentment, and anger.

BTW, EE ... my H never actually left (he had a long distance EA with his high school sweetheart, with whom he never consummated their affection - he was too shy), but we did have separate bedrooms for a very brief time. We actually were intimate all through our little saga, me initiating, and him accepting it with guilt. Then, suddenly, when it seemed he was reconnecting, it all seemed to stop, or slowed down very much. Seems that happened around the time I asked for more romance, and intimacy, but what I didn't know is that he had been in contact with OW still, all that time when he had told me and MC that it was over (he says she had nothing to do with it, and refutes that anything happened to slow things down). He did end the EA eventually after I had decided I did want a D, then he was back again, and we have recommitted to the M. Everything else is fine, except this little aspect, which is a rather important part of M, it seems, as is the trust I lost. Anyway, long story, and maybe I will post it again in detail one day, if anyone is even interested.

Are you feeling any better today? Had any intimacy with H over the weekend? I hope so.

~EE