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Hi y'all!

Just got back from a trip to Portland, OR! Very nice little city! Loved Powell's bookstore! Driving through the Seattle area was awful though (I live on an island, where there is very little traffic), and getting through customs on Thursday was hell due to the high alert because of the terrorists caught in the UK. But, I would rather that, than something bad happening, 'eh!

Anyway, we are home now, and being lazy! My H is busy doing his thing in the garage, and I thought it was time to do a little updating on my thread.

Yeah, I am still seeing a C, and my H is still depressed, but he seems to be coming out of it. I think he needed a holiday, maybe. I do feel like I have to constantly be trying to cheer him up, reassuring him of my love, and it is tiring, and starting to put me into a grumpy mood. Will need to do some thinking of what to do about all this. I feel I am at a crossroads in my life, outside of the M, and not sure how to proceed.

I'm not unhappy, or depressed, just thoughtful, and in need of clarity. I am spiritually confused, physically unfit, mentally exhausted, emotionally drained, and yet not unhappy! How's that for a bit of craziness?

A very wise friend sent this to me, and it is certainly food for thought!

The Mayonnaise Jar and the 2 Cups of Coffee

When things in your life seem almost too much to handle, when 24 hours in a day are not enough, remember the mayonnaise jar and the 2 cups of coffee.

A professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, he wordlessly picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full. The students responded with a unanimous "yes."

The professor then produced two cups of coffee from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar effectively filling the empty space between the sand. The students laughed.

"Now," said the professor as the laughter subsided, "I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life. The golf balls are the important things--God, your family, your children, your health, your friends and your favorite passions--and if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full. The pebbles are the
other things that matter like your job, your house and your car. The sand is everything else--the small stuff."

"If you put the sand into the jar first," he continued, "there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff you will never have room for the things that are important to you.

"Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your spouse out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house and fix the disposal. Take care of the golf balls first--the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the coffee represented. The professor smiled. "I'm glad you asked. It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may seem, there's always room for a couple of cups of coffee with a friend."

Glad to see your back. Been kind of wondering if you had thrown your computer off the back porch and forgot to go look for it. I'm sorry your evergreen state experience was bad, but that is the price for big city. It's been a few years since we've lived there. We like to visit, but we don't do that more than once or twice a year.

Getting back to your story, the pebbles seem to be taking priority over the balls. But I can't make those choices for her. I would so much like to take W and get away for awhile, perhaps get out of the rut we live in for a day or two. I'm glad you were able to enjoy Portland.

Give us some insight into what we can help you with.

Hi Phoenix! I am just not sure what advice to even ask for. On the surface, everything seems okay, but there are little hints at what may become potential problems. For instance, my H never initiates ML. I stopped last year, after discovering that he had lied to me again about contact with OW. I did explain to him why, that I felt that I had done everything I could, and still he lied, so now it is up to him. Since then, I doubt if we've ML more than 10 times. We are very affectionate with each other, but there is no passion, and it galls me to feel that unless I initiate (which I had been doing as a 180 when I was in extreme DB'ing mode), then he is not interested. I did talk to him about how I need to feel he is at least trying to romance me - not all the time, but occasionally. But, it falls on deaf ears, as it has since we got married 20 years ago. He told me that he is just that way, and I should accept him as he is. Now, that would be fine, except he never accepted me the way I am, and isn't marriage about compromise, and trying to fulfill the needs of each other, and intimacy and all that good stuff?

At this point in time, I feel I have done everything I could to save our M, and not just save it, but make it better. He has become apathetic again, and I am just fed up, although I have not communicated that to him yet. I'd rather wait until I can say it clearly, and with as little anger as possible.

It's just funny that when I would go through periods in our M when I was depressed and disinterested in ML, how angry and upset he would get, but when he does it, then that's fine - I just have to be understanding and accepting. It's really one-sided in many ways. I just wonder if it's depression (although he seems to be coming out of that now), or if he is still in contact with the OW, and doesn't want to betray her with me. I don't get the sense that either is the case, but then I am at a loss as to what it could be. Maybe, it's me! Or, maybe it's physical (but, he won't discuss this with a doctor).

So, where to from here?

On top of all this, he turned down a really good job in California, because I don't want to move. I just feel that where we are is best for our D13, until she finishes school. He agrees with me, but I still feel that I held him back because I would usually support any career move, but this time I decided that it was way too soon to move to a new city (and country) so soon after moving here. I did tell him that he could go if he really wanted the job, but he said, "no, it's a family decision". That is certainly a positive.

Eh, long post, sorry. Just don't know where to go from here, or how to shake things up. There is still the trust issue too - just can't shake it, and he ain't doing anything to earn it back. I guess I'm just going to have to be patient. It's just that I feel so unattractive, and unsexy, since my H doesn't deem me worthy of romantic pursuit (although he asks me to tell him my thoughts, and when I do, he just ignores what I tell him, so I don't do so anymore). Not sure if that makes any sense, but it's just how I feel right now. This piecing business is not easy!!

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...There is still the trust issue too - just can't shake it, and he ain't doing anything to earn it back. I guess I'm just going to have to be patient. It's just that I feel so unattractive, and unsexy, since my H doesn't deem me worthy of romantic pursuit ... This piecing business is not easy!

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I'm there with you about the trust issue. I've dropped the constant snooping, if I do now look at something it isnt' morbid curiosity but just to wonder how he was feeling at the time. I will make like Indiana Jones and step in faith into the unknown, I am putting myself on the line and have decided to trust him, if there is something iffy I'll bring it up and take his word, otherwise I don't think we'll reconnect.

My H is the same, though he does innitiate now and then I'm the one who innitiates most times (so it sort of paid off, he never used to). He isn't affectionate at all though, and it hurts, but I have to remind myself that we are going back to square 1 on our feelings, that he's told me he doesn't want to fake it and wants to give me true affection. Also my H has a one track mind and his studies at the academy are taking up all his time, in a way I am second on the list and have accepted that at some degree.

Wish he would romance me somehow, anyways, but it isnt' going to happen, so I just try to enjoy our time together, our movie night alone, our mornings in bed. I also thought he was obsessed with OW and tha'ts why he wasn't interested in me. Long ago told me ML w/m didnt' feel the same, then last sunday said he felt ashamed after what he'd done, and yes, depression also is a huge factor. LEt's give this guys more time to find themselves BeingMe.

In the meantime, look in the mirrow and say "I'm hot!" love yourself inside and out.

Thanks, Cat! Not so sure about 'hot', but I do like myself as a person, and don't think I'm unattractive. My H always thought I was beautiful, and I was always happy with that. Now, not so sure! I need more out of my M, and if he can't at least try, after all the crap I've been through, then I'm not sure I will be able to stick around - not as his W anyway.

I know I should give him a chance to find himself, but how many chances should one person get? We went through a period of several years in our M when he was addicted to porn, and that was an incredibly destructive force at that time. He did seek counselling for that, eventually (when I told him that something had died inside after all these years of lying, yadda yadda, and that I am now ready to leave unless he gets help). I always said that he had his chance, and yet I am still here. I must be a sucker for punishment.

On a more positive note - I have an interview next week, for a job at the local university. It's not a permanent position, but at least I will have something to do until the end of the year, and it's more job experience. Also, I may find a permanent post while there. I will, of course, still continue with my studies.

So, each day I try and live in the moment, and not worry too much about the future. Still, I am starting to lose hope that my H will ever take note of what my needs are. Anyway, I will cross the bridge when I get to it.

Sorry, about the negativity - just one of those days.

I hear you. I am willing to wait and be patient w/my husband, but if I he doesn't come around and I see myself in a loveless marriage a year or so from now then I have to make some decisions. It's one things I've learned while I was on limbo, to set some timeline for myself, I would never tell my H "you got one year to love me and to show it" but this timeline will be for my own piece of mind. I will keep an open mind to progress on his side, we'll see what happens...
I told my C how I felt I was running on empty, how I kept giving and givign and got barely nothing in return. He asked me if I was giving of myself until I was empty or if I was receiving from the Lord and giving as much as I was receiving. I don't think I'm at that point yet, I should I guess, but it is something to think about.

hugs)))))) I have "one of those days" fairly often, but I hope with the new position you are getting you fill up your time and feel happy about yourself.

Went for the interview yesterday. It went well, but one can never really tell if you got the job. Ah well! They said they will let the interviewees know by Monday. Ultimately, I'm not sure I really want the job, after all. There are so many things I want to do, but I am lacking motivation right now.

I have to start writing, working out, painting ... that's where my real passion is. On the M front - all is quiet. H is still not into ML, so I have taken to reading at night. He has been kissing me a little more passionately when he goes to bed, which is nice. I wonder if he is trying to get me to initiate? Whatever, I need him to make the effort now. If I am not worth making an effort then I sure ain't gonna do it for him either. I know, I sound very childish, but I am tired from all the emotional upheavals, and need to feel like my H is actually going out of his way for me. Silly me!

Refresh my memory, were your or H the LD back in the pre DB/DR days? Some how I thought you had said you were. Are you taking him back to "old ruts", just because of you feel that he needs to make up to you. As much as us DBers hate to hear it we don't want to show them "same old stuff", just because we feel we are due and they owe us.

If it was the other way, it looks like he is starting to move in the right direction. I would encourage him, but very discretely. Don't, however, take this big step/accomplishment away from him, before he does it. Both of you need that. (Him to feel accomplishment, you to feel desired/loved).

Good luck on the new job. (Thinking positive for you).

When H and I got married we were both pretty HD, but when he got into the porn stuff, I allowed my self-esteem to plummet, and would vary from HD to LD. My H remained HD, and would get angry and upset with me, but would not see that his actions had anything to do with how I felt. All water under the bridge now, I guess.

It seems now, I am back to normal, and he is LD, or something. He does not like to talk about sex, or about our needs (never has), until it gets to boiling points, then he everything he has bottled up comes spewing out. Or if I tell him my needs, when he has asked me to do so, then he deliberately ignores those needs. If I ask him why he does this, he says "well, now it won't seem natural if I respond". Ugh! He hasn't done that in awhile, but when I ask him now, why he isn't interested in my, sexually, he comes up with some weak excuse after another. Sometimes, he seems interested, and I know that if I pursue it, he will respond, but I am done with pursuing him - for now. I did that for 8 months, where we would ML everyday (sometimes up to 5 times), only to find out he was still lying to me. Finally, we came back together, and he lied again! I told him then, that he has gone past the point of having a last chance, and that if he wanted this M to work, then I would have to see some more effort from his side. And, you know what, I saw less effort! So! What does that tell me? I have no idea, but I'm not putting myself out there again, just to have my feelings trampled on. I am nicely detached, and at this point, it won't matter to me if he stays or goes. I am done with feeding his ego too. Time for him to grow up, I think. I have worked on all my issues, so he can do so too. I am almost at the point of being done with waiting for some sort of indication that he is interested in me romantically/sexually speaking. He tells me several times a day, that he loves me, he is affectionate, and sometimes playful, and we go out on dates - all very positive points. But, there it ends!

I just don't know what to do, other than put myself out there again, and make myself vulnerable to him again. However, he has proven that to do so, is to invite a lot of pain and hurt. So, I am affectionate back, tell him I love him, am also playful, and happy to go on our dates. But, there it ends. It seems we are in a stand-off. So weird!

There will come a time (knowing myself) where I will just let it all go, and leave. I was at that point last year before he begged for me to take him back, for one last chance, then I found out his lie, and he begged again for another last chance. How many last chances should anyone have, before the LBS is just being stupid?

I don't feel he owes me anything, or want him to make up for what he has done to me and our family. I have let it all go, except for the odd flashback, or my lack of trust (not just in him, but in most people now, unfortunately, and I am trying to work on that). I just want us to have the marriage we had before all the porn cr*p, and before the MLC garbage, and EA. We had each other's back then, we could talk to each other about anything, we loved each other very deeply, and ML often (not too much, and not too little, IMO). We were connected! But now, it seems, as if we are wary of each other, at least, I know I am of him, especially in this last year.

I have asked him to go into IC'ing, or MC'ing, but he doesn't want to. He is open to Retrovouille, so I am looking into that. I just don't know what else to do. I just won't compromise my still tender emotional health.

I will give it some time, however, and then push for something, and see where it goes, but until then, I take it one day at a time.