Jabez- I don't think this is H's way of getting back at me. He's mentioned it pre-A and the pornography thing has been going on forever. This is just my H. And his attitude toward it fueled my rebelious side as I walked the line between safety and danger pre-A.
Quote: I wouldn't do it.
Don't fret it man, wouldn't consider it for a freakin second.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: I said: The guy who can't forive me for kissing someone else is going to be fine with witnessing another guy...ok, you get the idea. Bullsh!t!!
You said: Probably because he believes that it would be just sex,
But isn't him talking about a viable emotional connection an indication that he's saying it would/could be about more than just sex?
Quote: "Well I know I'd be strong enough to not give in, but I don't know if I can say the same about my partner". You know what I mean?
Yeah, I do. The way he was talking about it last night though made it sound like *he* was the one who wouldn't be strong enough and he didn't seem to hide his feelings on the issue, making it clear that it wouldn't be just "any person". WTF??? Who then, your ex freakin girlfriend?? My best friend?? Your best friend??? Jeez, the crappy options are endless aren't they, LOL??
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Well perhaps I should explain to him how this works. See, he left for San Diego today for 10 days. We would have had sex last night and were headed in that direction pretty much all evening. UNTIL we had this discussion. Warm feelings-gone. Sexual feelings-gone. So, guess who didn't get any last night?
Me.
I guarantee you there is no way in he11
Poor hell. It's just an old English word basically meaning "hole". In olden days, people would store vegetables in a hole in the ground, and they'd say that their "potatos were in hell" for example. Nowadays, it's derived negative associations via religion, and may offend some even when used in a discussion of sex and swinging. Poor, poor, misunderstood hell.
But isn't him talking about a viable emotional connection an indication that he's saying it would/could be about more than just sex?
I guess so. Obviously he doesn't think it equates to the degree of an A. But people do have double scales for measuring themselves and others, don't they?
Awe, NY you didn't get any last night either? From what I've read on your thread the past month or so, that sounds like a rare occasion..... Just kidding. But it does sound like you can 'get some' whenever you want. Which is a place usually reserved for women, so congratulations, lol!!
Quote: Obviously he doesn't think it equates to the degree of an A. But people do have double scales for measuring themselves and others, don't they?
Yeah. Sigh.
I wonder if in the olden days people stored their ice in hell? Now that would be ironic, wouldn't it???
Last edited by heatherg; 09/15/0507:42 PM.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Troublemaker here...have you considered that he has his eye on someone and wants to have sex with her and make it all right just because Heather was there and said it was OK. Get back at you and have his way all in the same little tidy bundle....
I didn't get any last night either...lets see, is that a year now? Holy crud.
My H brought this up too as one of his fantasies...when I was snooping on his "Adult Friend Finder" profile, (I know, bad me) he checked the little box that said had been involved in a threesome, along with a lot of others I was surprised to see.....
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
Quote: have you considered that he has his eye on someone and wants to have sex with her and make it all right just because Heather was there and said it was OK. Get back at you and have his way all in the same little tidy bundle....
It's a possibility, but I don't think it's the case.
Quote: when I was snooping on his "Adult Friend Finder" profile, (I know, bad me) he checked the little box that said had been involved in a threesome, along with a lot of others I was surprised to see.....
Yikes! It is an absolute shame all of the things your H has put you through Mel. What a jerk. Sorry. But I still stand by my statement!! You deserve sooo much better than the crap you've had to contend with. You're amazing.
Ok, time to catch up with my thread....here goes!!
Quote: Oh, and you suck regarding the rollercoaster thing. W and both S's are scared of heights. But I freaking love rollercoasters! And I just this instant realized that there's nothing keeping me from going any more. I see King's Dominion in my future...
Good for you Bud!!! I've never been to King's Dominion...I've lived in VA for 11 years now. How lame is that?!
Quote: necessary for spouses who have had affairs to tell their wives/husbands about the affair so that they can be totally honest and truthful to each other. They need to trust each other. But the spouse also needs to give their partner room to react. I'm sorry that this is the part that is causing you so much pain.
Yeah, I really do agree. I do not regret telling H the truth about what I did. I mean if I'm going to sit around regretting the past it seems I'd be better off regretting the A than regretting *telling* about the A. Yeah, the reacting thing has been tough. But it's getting better. Wow. Did you hear that? It's getting better.....
Quote: I think that it rather controlling of a spouse to decide what their spouse needs to know or can handle and doesn't need to know or can't handle.
Yeah, controlling and pretty darn conveeeenient.
Quote: called my aunt and uncle last Friday. The ones who have been involved in Retrouvaille since forever ..... I asked them, when a person has tried talking about it but hasn't gotten their needs met in a M and it seems unlikely their spouse is going to make the serious changes needed to make things work, how do you get their attention? They both answered with almost no hesitation, "Sometimes you have to file for divorce. Sometimes that's the only thing that works." I was surprised, but there you go.
Wow. That's all I can say really. Wow. Oh and maybe 'darn'. Sigh.
Quote: I realized that we had talked about what we both needed from the M. The only answers I could ever come up with involved sex. More frequent, spicier, whatever.
My H did make some comments about frequency of sex, but never during a R conversation. During those conversations, if he chose to stop rolling his eyes and stay in the room long enough to participate in the discussion, he would always say he didn't have any problems with me. I would press the issue because he tried to redefine the term discussion as a 'bitch session about what is wrong with him'. So I would say 'ok, let's talk about me then. What's something that I can change'? And he'd *always* say he didn't have any problems with me.
Quote: I would have been content to be hated less (that's an exaggeration but you get the point).
OMG, those could be my H's words...
Quote: If I could go back to when she asked the old (dumbass) me that question, the new me would whisper this in her ear: do what you did that first year you dated.
This one doesn't work for me. You couldn't pay me to go back to not only the first year we dated but the first several. Honestly. You could not pay me to do it.
Quote: And the hardest one of all, maybe she could have found it within herself to just be happier more when I was around.
Again, could be my H's words.....
Quote: What kind of little things did you used to do when you were so in love with him?
I did whatever he wanted me to do, those were the little things I did to show him I cared. My H had an opinion on everything and I couldn't get new dish towels without him acting hurt if I didn't consult his opinion. Ugh. So, I know that a lot of therapists ask you to refer to your past as a key to make your present better. Not so for me.
Quote: Do you think he knows how he wants to be loved?
Good question. I have noticed that things are better lately, we are less confrontational. Being more appreciative and considerate. I'm going to say something really dumb now. He responds well when I am considerate and affectionate toward him. Ok, duh. But really, such gestures have been no easy feat for me when I have spent the better part of the last year absolutely hating him. I thought I hated him at times before the A, since the A it has been taken to a whole new level. So being considerate and affectionate are not easy for me. But it's easier when he reciprocates and initiates the same gestures, which he has been. His reciprocation is the only way this behavior is possible for me. But it seems to be working well so far. We've had an issue or two since we've been back from MI, but in general our days are more than just peaceful, they are actually loving.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
H is in San Diego for 10 days or so. Lately, even when he's been travelling, it's usually been to DC so he's been home on the weekends. It's not very often I get to plan fun time with the kids so I'll have to decide what we're going to do. Hmm. H's parents came over to watch the kiddy cats for me so I could go to karate tonight. That was very nice of them to offer. *50 push ups* in class tonight!! Good grief, I think they're trying to kill me. On to another subject....after an A a problem often arises in that the betrayed partner wants to talk about the A and ask questions about it all the time. The partner who betrayed starts to feel on guard b/c they never know when the questions will start (or when they will end!!) or how it will change the mood or if it will ruin the day. So, one of the things that I've heard several sources suggest is to set up a time of week for an hour where the A will be discussed. All questions are answered lovingly. But only for an hour. I'm thinking that if things keep going positively for H and I that I may suggest this. H says that he doesn't feel I've ever been sorry so maybe it will help to talk about it. We haven't discussed details in quite some time. It's a hard step to take b/c the last thing I want to do is talk about this.....but it may be what H needs. All in all, we've been doing better. H found out on Monday that he was leaving for San Diego Thursday. I told H "I really want to get to karate tonight especially if you are leaving Thursday". I think I hurt his feelings b/c he would have preferred to hear that I wanted to be with him since he was leaving Thursday. Oops. He sort of fell into his old ways, taking his time when he knew it was time for me to leave. I ended up leaving while he was in the shower (he had been mowing the lawn and was sweaty). I poked my head in the door and said I have to leave now or I'll be late. I put D2 on the couch with a movie and S4 was playing with his hotwheels and I left. He called me about 5 minutes later expressing absolute disbelief that I left. He was more than irritated and it pretty much threw off the next couple of days for us. We were in a pretty good place right before that, showing affection in public, etc. He gets so defensive about my karate, it drives him crazy that I go. He gets irritated that I expect him to "watch" the kids and ultimately irritated b/c I'd rather go to class than be with him I think. I'm glad that we've been having more good days than bad and that we're being more thoughtful and considerate of one another, but I'm still not at a point where I feel like putting his needs ahead of mine.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
...but in general our days are more than just peaceful, they are actually loving.
Outstanding!
It's a hard step to take b/c the last thing I want to do is talk about this.....but it may be what H needs.
That sounds like a good idea. Are you thinking this is a set time every week where you *will* talk about it, or more like a set time when you are willing to talk about it if he wants/needs to? It doesn't seem like you'd want to have to talk about it.
He called me about 5 minutes later expressing absolute disbelief that I left.
You set a boundary and enforced it. You're gonna have to do that and he's gonna have to get used to it. If he already resents the karate I can see why he'd be ticked that the karate seemed to be your priority over him. But you could have made it up to him if he'd kept the "bad guy" burden on you instead of taking it back for himself. Your recent interactions make it seem like he can learn, though!
...we're being more thoughtful and considerate of one another, but I'm still not at a point where I feel like putting his needs ahead of mine.
It's a pretty safe bet you're still putting his needs ahead of yours sometimes. And this wasn't necessarily a win/lose scenario. It kind of ended up that way when he got passive-aggressive on you.
Got any cool DB plans for his trip? Write him a letter, have the kids send him postcards, a suggestive email, anything?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Quote: Are you thinking this is a set time every week where you *will* talk about it, or more like a set time when you are willing to talk about it if he wants/needs to? It doesn't seem like you'd want to have to talk about it.
I was thinking it would be more like a question and answer session, so if he didn't have anything to inquire about or to comment on, then I guess he'd be forfeiting until next time.
Quote: You set a boundary and enforced it. You're gonna have to do that and he's gonna have to get used to it.
I hadn't thought about it that way. He was trying to make me feel guilty for leaving the kids alone while he was in the shower. He typically takes 10 min showers and he had already been in for 5. Me, on the other hand, I take 20 minute showers and what does he think I do with the kids while I'm in the shower when he's travelling??! I just felt like he was deliberately 'taking his time' when he knew I had to go....he took a few minutes to chat with S4 before getting in the shower, etc. So, maybe you're right. I set a boundary and enforced it. But you know, there was a pretty high price to pay b/c he continued to be irritated about it for the next day or two and of course, that only fueled my irritation with him for being irritated in the first place.....hopefully in time, his reactions won't be so strong as he begins to learn what to expect from me. The key is to be detached so that if and when he reacts like a spoiled brat, it won't affect me so much. Because right now, honestly, I'm apprehensive about karate pretty much every time I go...I can see myself eventually saying forget it.
Quote: It's a pretty safe bet you're still putting his needs ahead of yours sometimes. And this wasn't necessarily a win/lose scenario. It kind of ended up that way when he got passive-aggressive on you.
Hmm. I really need to give some more thought on situations where I put his needs ahead of mine. B/c honestly, nothing comes to mind. Except maybe that I put ham in my macaroni salad instead of chicken b/c that's the way he likes it. There aren't too many win/lose situations that come up in a M are there? At least not on a daily basis. But your point that our conflict about karate wasn't a win/lose scenario....made me realize that H has a knack for turning things into just that.
Quote: Got any cool DB plans for his trip? Write him a letter, have the kids send him postcards, a suggestive email, anything?
I didn't have any such plans until I read your post and then I started considering it. But then I read Anna's question on her thread about attractiveness and it got me thinking. Thinking too much. And now I'm not feeling much like doing anything for H except giving him a kick in the a@@. I just started thinking about his pornography habit and how inferior it makes me feel. His determination to continue angers me to a point you cannot even begin to imagine b/c it does make me feel second best. Jeez, do I think my H is going to still be attracted to me when middle age sets in...hmm since I feel second best now I highly doubt things are going to get better from here. I read posts on the boards where women will say they had a problem with it and their H's stopped. What is the deal with my H???? So then I got to thinking that I have absolutely no idea how often he does it now that things have been going better for us or any other details. But yet, here I am, thinking about how I can set aside time for him to get his feelings out about the A. The unfairness of it all has me in a pretty crappy place today. Can you tell?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Just kidding. But it does sound like you can 'get some' whenever you want. Which is a place usually reserved for women, so congratulations, lol!!
He was more than irritated and it pretty much threw off the next couple of days for us. We were in a pretty good place right before that, showing affection in public, etc. 