jenoftheisland. Sorry you react so much to my post. I am not against you being LD. Just posting what problems it causes for the HD person. If we all could meet in person I would try to convey most of the things Chrissy seems to practice.
I also would speculate if your H did a few things more to your liking, the HD verses LD thing would be softened. I am not trying to get into a HD vs. LD discussion and say either one is right.
About me: I was never your typical guy. So, there's nothing you've ever done during dating that you could say later wasn't 100% truthful? You've never used a line on a girl? Never stood a girl up Maybe I am stupid but the answer is no. I had a somewhat deprived childhood and worked very hard for everything I ever got.
Life was too spartan to fool around. Almost every thing I did was a do or fail situation. I supported my mother until I was 24 and had little time or money left over for myself. I was drafted and sent money home according to the Army's scheduel so that left me with $68 to $98 a month in 1966.
When you have resources you can afford to fool around. When life is/was a struggel I tended to play it safe and real. I did the same things with my male friends, no reckless activities or thrill seeking. I am not saying I never had fun or didn't tell jokes. Just none of the toying around with other peopes feelings.
lied to her about your feelings? Yes, to be nice to her and not hurt her feelings. That got me in trouble so it was not worth it. Maybe I should have burned a couple of bridges. At the time all bridges seem to have value.
Did you marry the first girl you dated? Did not date much. Life is different when you have a mother to support and work 54 hours a week. My dad and stepdad died. No life insurance. They both were in poor health. No "Leave It to Beaver" "Lassie" or "Patrridge Family" life style for me.
No ILU to get into her pants. I saw what that did to young girls dating sleezball guys and did not want to be like them.
Sometimes sex/ML has to happen so the HD person does not think about sex most of the day.........Ok, I just HAD to jump on this one! After no sex for 6 weeks, reading 2 more books ( W won't read any R books) and doing things her way, sometimes a guy gets the mind set it is time for something other than the stall tactics to happen. I work full time and W was a SAHM then worked for 15 years, then retired early. Who has the advantage here?
I would love to hear that your W has suddenly hit her pace and is jumpin' your bones every other night WOW! That is a lot better than reluctantly once every six weeks. I do kid around sometimes.
How about 8X a month or 4X a month. My W/BB has time to watch old westerns that were filmed when we were kids and sitcoms from the 70's for 4 hours a day while I work full time. After rubbing her feet for an hour watching "Three's company reruns for the 4 time I don't understand why some of my wishes don't seem to fit in.
You: I'm not sure how to bridge the gap between the HD person wanting a deeper connected love life, and the LD person having their feelings validated and being accepted for the way they are inside. That is what many of us HD spouses are trying to do with the validated part. The being accepted IE sex once a month or 4 X a year part is the rough part for a HD person.
If being accepted means the LD mostly sets the pace and wants the HD to be dedicated and faithful to them, that is where the rub is. Just ask honeypot, greeneyedlass, and MM if once every month is good enough for them to be happy in a marriage.
Again I am not saying you shouldn't feel right about most of your LD feelings. I can see your point and have empathy for you. I don't think you did a bait and switch. What is your deasired frequency? What is your H's desired frequency? (not some inflated number some women claim is real)
side note=BB tells me I want it 3X a day and she wants it 3X a year. My desired frequency would be 2X a week and willing for the third time if BB really wanted to do it. I lived with 1X a week and it was reluctantly most of the time. This once a month/six weeks sucks. So I stay up till 2AM to compensate. Not much of a life. Back to you jen.
I do know some women that did a bait and switch on the camping interest. Some went camping to be with their BF at the time and seemed to be OK with it. I don't call that bait and switch but it was not totally honest. One woman did the camping thing until they got marriesd and she never went again like "I got the marriage license" now I don't have to do that anymore. That is bait and switch.
I'm stuck in low and feeling pretty bad about it. Jen, do you feel stuck for life or just not able to find what you need for now. If I could gently and delicatly say something to make you feel a little better about your feelings to build your mood up a little, I would. Sometimes I may not come across as a protecting, caring person. I am not out to get anyone or say you have to change to doing things my way. Just looking at reality a little.
My main point is how much frustration some HD spouses feel being in a marriag where ML was happening 2X or 3x a week and now its duty sex once a month. I imagine that feels bad to both spouses.
Chrissy said something about HD spouse need to justify or say why they are HD. Here is a glimpse.
I. Lots more hormones than LD spouse. 2. Most fun I can have that is legal and very low cost. 2a. Was told sex before marriage was shameful. 3. I like ML more than any other optional activity. 3a. W can't get pregnant anymore, let the good times roll. W not interested now. 4. I sleep so much better after we have a mutual orgasam. 4a. I sleep better after having an O during LM. 4b. I sleep better knowing i have a special emotional and sexual connection with someone special. 4c. I sleep better after MBing if my partner is not interested in ML or sex. 5. I promised to forsake others and devote my time and energies to my W/BB. 6. If i have a bad day or several bad things happen to me, I can forget about them during LM. 7. I want my partner to have a good time and wish i could give some of my pleasure to them during LM. 8. Life is difficult, working in the hot sun for 8 hours seems doable when you start to think how wonderful it feels to lay together and stroke her smooth skin in the cool of the night. 8a. Those 3 nails that you missed and hit your finger instead, the two times you picked up a piece of hot metal you just cut with a tourch, that woman in a tube top (barely keeps her breasts in) that came into the shop with her short shorts on and sandals while you wore steel toed shoes and long pants, complaining about being uncomfortable because her air conditioner in her car was cool but not cold (nothing wrong with the a/c, just a hot day) are all tollerable because you can have time tonight to shower and be with your honey. 9. It is one way i feel connected to my spouse. W/O sex many things just seem like being room mates/friends, not lovers. 10. I might look at other women but i don't plan on making an emotional connection with them. I want an exclusive sex partner.
Then there are the kids, there feelings, BB feelings, finances, and etc that play into the picture. Most have some component of sexual feelings oe exclusiveness attached to them even if it is only small.
I am not writing a book but I hope you get the idea.
Jen ~feeling a bit down over this and not sure if this is the place I should be. Jen, stay, learn what you can.
If it seems I am in your face, I am not there to be mean or say you are wrong. I am being honest to show you what it feels like from my own HD mind (HD/LD being relative) I dont know how miss matched you are with your spouse. And I don't know the reasons why there is a disconnect or what his issues are that you would like to change other than the HD/LD thing.
I am looking for answers too. I have found some but right now there only seems to be more questions than answers. Many problems solved but new ones take their place. Maybe I should not be here?
RE: Chrissy Sometimes as LD's we are put in the position that we feel we have to explain over and over again why we are LD. We are made to feel at fault or to blame for our marital problems because we are LD. We are made to feel that we are faulty merchandise. It is almost like we spend so much time trying to figure out why we lack desire and explaining it that we become exhausted from all the self analizing we tend to do.
In my house, just change the LD to HD. I get what is wrong with you for being HD (1x a week or 1X every six weeks). Change the faulty merchandise to sex pervert. Add in guys your age all have ED problems. What is wrong with you (implied that just because I don't have ED, something is out of the norm. Then I read the post of women who have H with ED and think "if she only knew"
Not looking any "O you poor thing" just want you to know the label and feelings goes both ways.
What makes you want to have sex all the time and think about it all the time? Not all of the time Chrissy. Just more often than LD's. Say several times during the day. I hope some of my post explains a few things.
It would be really great if some LD W's did half of what you are doing.
Quote: Having sex was put on the chore list right below vacuming and above sorting the socks out. Why? Sex became a responsibility of being the wife. The same as changing a dirty diaper was of being a mother. Why? Sex did not seem as important as getting up with the baby in the middle of the night. Why not? Sex did not seem as important as sitting up and watching a disney movie for the 80th time with your child. Why the hell not? Sex did not seem as important as the housework that needed to be done after the kids went to bed. Why not? F**k the housework! Sex did not seem as important as sleep after two days staight of vomitting,feverish,wailing kids. My sympathy goes out to you and all PARENTS while they are dealing with this. Sex did not seem as important as getting the kids school cloths washed and H uniforms cleaned for the next day after working 10 hours. Why not? Sex did not seem as important as sitting up worrying about your 16 year who is not home yet. WHY NOT? BTDT!!! Sex did not seem as important as a late night phone call from your child away on vacation wanting to tell you what they did that day. You would not have that child to begin with if it were not for ML, so WHY did it get so UNIMPORTANT???? Sex did not seem as important as sitting down and writting that letter to your grandmother while all was quite to thank her for the $20.00 she sent you and tell her how much you missed her. Why NOT??? Grandmothers all had sex and, although they wouldn't want to admit it, IT FELT GREAT!! Sex did not seem as important as taking that long bubble bath to relax and gather your thoughts after a long day of yard work followed by making dinner. Bathing the kids and doing laundry and finishing the project that you did not get done at work. Wouldn't it have been even better if you had invited "hubby" to join you?
My whole point here is stop making excuses. The sick children is a valid excuse in my mind and in any HDH's mind. You win that round, hands down, no argument.
As for the rest, stop making excuses. But I don't expect you to "get it". My W doesn't get it either. And I'm really pissed off right now that after 27 years and all the kid things that we have gone through and everything else, she doesn't get it. And if you keep making excuses, your hubby will be here after you have been married for 27 years lamenting about how you ALSO don't get it.
My only comment on this wonderful thread, which has been quite busy this weekend, is to rerun what my MC said to my W and me a couple sessions ago:
MC: (leaning forward and looking directly at W) Know this. That if you spend a half hour less with your daughter a couple times a week, or if you only work on the bills and budget three days a week instead of every day, it will have little long-term effect on your daughter or on your budget. But neglect spending a half hour a day focusing on each others' needs? Your marriage will be doomed.
I Have been HD and LD in the same marriage, and I don't view being LD as being damaged goods---it's just a different physical as well as mental state of being. There is a certain spirit I am enjoying by having my sexuality reawakened, which means nothing if I don't have an intimate connection with my H. I appreciate it all the more because it was missing from the picture for me for so long.
Yesterday my H and I played a tennis game for the first time in a long time. We used to play and then dropped it. We restarted by just hitting the ball around but that got boring after awhile. We really didn't have the confidence to start a game considering how much we lost before, but I suggested it, and we had a fun time. It was nice to be back in the game with him...what we have lost in youthful energy is made up for in the appreciation that we are out there again. If we never took up tennis again, it really wouldn't matter all that much, life goes on. But it seems every yr life just chisels away at you, and the more that you can do to stay in fun spiritedness with your partner, I feel the more enriching your life can be. I really see sex in that light, only more so because of it's unique opportunity for intimacy and exclusivity. I know I can't change my H's POV because I have been there, but I would be failing myself ( and him too)if I didn't assert how I feel now.
Quote: But it seems every yr life just chisels away at you, and the more that you can do to stay in fun spiritedness
This is well put and exactly what happens in long term relationships (and by yourself, if you're single). This is not the same thing as "bait and switch" which is a cruel label and will not encourage much communication with your SO (CeMar!).
This is a definition of "bait and switch":
Quote: An illegal tactic in which a seller advertises a product with the intention of persuading customers to purchase a more expensive product.
also:
Sales practice where customers are drawn into a store from an advertisement for a bargain price which does not exist, is of poor quality, or is no longer available. In turn, the business tries to switch the customer to a more expensive offering. This sales practice often occurs in items such as stereos, televisions, or telephones, but can occur for low interest rates that are switched to more expensive loans. If damages can be proven, the practice can be the basis for a personal lawsuit and can be a target for a class action suit since many customers are often affected.
I think there are some people who go into a marriage PRETENDING to be or feel one way and who have no intention of keeping this up after the marriage. That level of malice is NOT what we're talking about here. If you feel your SO holds that level of MALICE and INTENTIONAL cruelty toward you, the you'd better leave the R immediately.
As for the camping... in my first marriage (in 1971) we actually went camping on our honeymoon. I thought I liked it. I thought I was supposed to like it. Not because of him, but because of the '60's "Rocky Mountain High" and all that... back to nature, yadda, yadda, yadda. I tried to like it. We camped on the beach-- yuck! Sand gets in EVERYWHERE. So it turned out I didn't like camping. It wasn't a bait and switch. I changed my mind. Now my idea of roughing it is a place that doesn't have room service.
There are things you do in the beginning of a R-- you don't intend to be dishonest, but you change. I used to go with my first husband to the hardware store, just because I wanted to be near him. I went with my second husband to Academy (he was an avid fisherman and hunter), because it was fun for him. I wouldn't have gone on my own. Was that dishonest?
The Assumption of Good Will is on shaky ground here!
Jen, please stick around. We value the LD POV very much! You too, Chrissy!
Yikes! Didn't mean to come off so defensive! Sorry!
Quote: If it seems I am in your face, I am not there to be mean or say you are wrong. I am being honest to show you what it feels like from my own HD mind (HD/LD being relative) I dont know how miss matched you are with your spouse. And I don't know the reasons why there is a disconnect or what his issues are that you would like to change other than the HD/LD thing.
I am looking for answers too. I have found some but right now there only seems to be more questions than answers. Many problems solved but new ones take their place. Maybe I should not be here?
Good heavens, don't go! I have to say that what you say really does resound with me, and the only reason I have been challenging myself is through reading your stories. The sadness/hurt/anger I see scared me, and for that reason I have made MANY changes at home.
Quote: I. Lots more hormones than LD spouse. 2. Most fun I can have that is legal and very low cost. 2a. Was told sex before marriage was shameful. 3. I like ML more than any other optional activity. 3a. W can't get pregnant anymore, let the good times roll. W not interested now. 4. I sleep so much better after we have a mutual orgasam. 4a. I sleep better after having an O during LM. 4b. I sleep better knowing i have a special emotional and sexual connection with someone special. 4c. I sleep better after MBing if my partner is not interested in ML or sex. 5. I promised to forsake others and devote my time and energies to my W/BB. 6. If i have a bad day or several bad things happen to me, I can forget about them during LM. 7. I want my partner to have a good time and wish i could give some of my pleasure to them during LM. 8. Life is difficult, working in the hot sun for 8 hours seems doable when you start to think how wonderful it feels to lay together and stroke her smooth skin in the cool of the night. 8a. Those 3 nails that you missed and hit your finger instead, the two times you picked up a piece of hot metal you just cut with a tourch, that woman in a tube top (barely keeps her breasts in) that came into the shop with her short shorts on and sandals while you wore steel toed shoes and long pants, complaining about being uncomfortable because her air conditioner in her car was cool but not cold (nothing wrong with the a/c, just a hot day) are all tollerable because you can have time tonight to shower and be with your honey. 9. It is one way i feel connected to my spouse. W/O sex many things just seem like being room mates/friends, not lovers. 10. I might look at other women but i don't plan on making an emotional connection with them. I want an exclusive sex partner.
Lou, that is beautiful!!! Being LD, I don't always understand how you can always be 'up for it', but I am always glad my H still feels this way! I know he loves me, and that there isn't another girl in the world he wants to be with (Angelina Jolie aside...). I appreciate the fact that no matter how I look (after 4 babies), or whether I'm even clean, he still wants me that way! I'm just sorry I don't offer the same in return! I love him in a way I've never loved anyone. I'll never forget the way he looked holding our babies for the first time! I wish there was a pill to take to get me to your level, I'd take it!
The biggest problem I see is the fact that it isn't changing on the inside. Inside, I'm still LD, dispite all the hard work I've done. I'm trying to think sexy, read sexy novels, I'm trying a little light porn to get the 'juices flowing', but it isn't changing me at the core.
If I went away for a week without H, I'd probably never have a horney thought. Why? Why can't the feelings stick so that I don't have to think about it any more? Why do I have to keep track of the 'last time' so that it doesn't extend past a certain number of acceptable days?
Dh doesn't even initiate as much anymore... that's got to be a bad sign. I very, very rarely turn him down, and if I do I always plan another time and stick to it. Guess it's a case of too little too late in my case.
Ugh, I HATE this! Why can't I hit my sexual prime and suddenly shift in to high gear??? I remember H joking about waiting for it (I'm 35), but haven't heard that one for a long time now. Perhaps I've been a bit defensive with him too?
Jen ~who believes she is suffering right along with the HDs
jen, Your sexuality is something you should persue for yourself, not for your H. If you think in terms of what will a healthy veiw of your own sexuality and a vital sex life will do for YOU, then you will be on the right path. Best of luck.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Re: Lil I tried to like it. We camped on the beach-- yuck! Sand gets in EVERYWHERE. So it turned out I didn't like camping. It wasn't a bait and switch. I changed my mind. Now my idea of roughing it is a place that doesn't have room service
Honest try, good for you. I don't consider that bait and switch. I have learned what indoor plumbing means to most women if that is any help. I lived in florida and worked on cars in the sand driveway. I did not mind laying in the sand but got frustrated many times at trying to keep sand out of bearings. Sand and bearings are something like gasoline and open flames but slower. Both don't mix and the end results are dictruction. Gas fast, sand slow.
I used to go with my first husband to the hardware store, just because I wanted to be near him. I went with my second husband to Academy (he was an avid fisherman and hunter), because it was fun for him. I wouldn't have gone on my own. Was that dishonest?
I don't see anything dishonest in the above situations.
I go to the mall with BB once in a while because I feel I have an obligation to do some things she likes.
I am really trying to avoid the bait and switch labels in this conversation. Just saying in some rare cases bait and switsh does exist.
Most of this LD/HD stuff happens gradually and chips away at what should be a primary relationship. Mind you, most times the sick kids and baby tending do come first at times of the week, but sometimes what is left of the R after many years of neglecting each other is painful to deal with.
If a man/woman can find time to read "Harry Potter" from start to end what is wrong with spending 15 to 30 minuets in bed with your spouse and having sex/ML? Need help with other chores so you have the time? Ask for it on a per incident basis.
Yet again CeMar you did not try to read into what we were talking about. We were speaking as LDs and why we are not obsessed with thinking of sex every minute of the day.
In my list I did not state I did not think about my H and that these things were more important then my H. I stated that these things crossed my mind or were more important then sex. And while yes sex is his primary love language I also pointed out that my H does the same when it comes to my primary love language other things are more important and are put first. So we are both guilty of doing the same thing there. And really hate to tell you I do not look for my children to get sick so I can get nerved racked from hours of wailing and cleaning puke everywhere every few minutes. And bathing the [censored] off of them. Nor do I look for all the laundry it entials afterwards. And cleaning there beds and rooms to get rid of the stench and germs. Sorry I don't feel any LD person would actively seek this. What are you accussing me of purposely making my child sick because I know my old man wants sex. Or hey let me take all the clean cloths and drag them through the mud so I will have to wash them again and fold them again and put them up again just so I do not have to have sex.God get real!
CeMar I invision your wife feeling as she is needing a flashing neon sign strapped between her legs saying come and get it open 24 hours a day To make you happy. Just by what you say here. It must be a terrible feeling for her. But of course that is not important because you are the victim to her and her LDness. It cannot be that you are somehow at fault for her LDness. She did all of this to you she deprieved you she has ruined your life because you do not have sex everyday and when you do it is not good enough and this is all her fault. She did this to you. I am glad that the majority of HD people here do not walk around sprewing the crap you do. If they did the few LD people here would never be able to achieve or learn anything. We would probably become more LD then we are now. And the HD people that that are trying to understand the whys and whats to LD behavior would never have a chance to learn anything from a LD person that is trying to change for there spouse. And I am really glad my H does not think your way. If he did I would not have been dreaming of dismembering him at one time I would be sitting in jail for doing it. Maybe it is time you give up the pity me act and start doing something other then being selfish and only carring about yourself and your needs. CeMar why can you not understand a marriage is not all about sex. And if that is what you based getting married on was for you want of sex. Dam did your wife get short changed in the deal. Oh yeah and sorry this is so blunt and this is only in response to CeMar.
Second. Why do you thing that divorce is so high for empty nesters? Spouses ignore each other for kids for 20+ years, now the kids are gone and you are living with a stranger Then there are all those people who realized that the person that they married was not the person they thought they had. That they were monsters of sorts. Or they were not the gentleman that opened the door for them or seemed concerned with and encouraged the others goals in life. Never wanted to try anything new in life. blah blah on and on. You know the people that were so unsatisfied within there marriage for other reasons then sexual fufillment maybe just the plain fact there S was a selfish [censored]. But they endured this for the kids. Now that they are past that raising the kids responsibility they are seeking a chance for happiness. I see many HD people state that they do not leave there spouse because of there kids(even seen this on a few post from you). Guess what LD people do not leave there spouses because of there kids to. But once the kids are gone why should they stay with this person who has made them so unsatisfied in life. Everyone deserves some happiness.
And my H cherishes the fact that I love my children so completely as he does also. It is very comforting to know that if you die your spouse loves your child enough to put no others above it. I never worry that if I die my children will be made to feel the less important and the extra bagage. They will still be taken care of loved and nourished and neither does my husband have to worry about this. Because we both love them more then anything else in our lifes.
I do kid around sometimes.
Why? Why can't the feelings stick so that I don't have to think about it any more? Why do I have to keep track of the 'last time' so that it doesn't extend past a certain number of acceptable days?
Perhaps I've been a bit defensive with him too?