Hp, I was referring to the LD people on this board, most (all?) of whom are women. It's my impression that they tend to say they don't think of sex, they like it but tend to forget about it if they don't do it for a while, they don't get an emotional connection, and stuff along those lines. I don't recall any LD poster on this BB ever saying she was afraid of becoming addicted to sex (implying that she intrinsically liked it THAT much).
Quote: So... I guess she really liked it-- a lot! But somewhere in her a voice said that something you like so much a) can't be good for you, and b) has to be controlled or at least moderated.
Do you think she consciously damped down her desire over the years, the way we remind ourselves that one (or one half of a) Krispy Kreme is tolerable, but a whole one (or fifteen) will clog our arteries and make us burst out of our fat clothes? I mean, did she deliberately, consciously talk herself out of wanting sex? Are you aware of when this happened?
No. So, finding the answer is like finding the solution to our world’s energy crisis, or the holes in the ozone layer, or……I don’t know the answer. She won’t tell me.
A few weeks ago I had a major breakthrough. We were in bed making love and I asked her which part of her clit felt better when I touched her down there. She told me the answer, honestly, then ended the conversation saying that was enough divulging information for now. She loves to be secretive that way.
That’s just the way she is. She doesn’t understand that telling me how to make love to her would make OUR LIFE better.
I’m beginning to see it this way…..We both work Monday thru Friday. She works mornings, I work evenings. When I come home at night, she’s already asleep. When she gets up, I’m asleep. All we have are the weekends. So, if come the weekend, both of us are not willing and ready to leave our own little worlds and create OUR WORLD, our world isn’t going to happen at all. What needs to happen is both of us emerge from our own little Monday thru Friday worlds and work together to create OUR WORLD together,
You have no idea how much I would like to know why she thought sex would become an addiction and why she chose to not let herself get into it. Also, there are a million other questions that partners in marriages that are working WELL ask and answer for each other that I’d like to know about. WE just can’t seem to get started. Too secretive. Too precious. Too intimate. Too me and not you. These are things we need to talk about. But we’ve only been married for 27 years. Let’s not rush into anything.
I’d like to introduce her to the BB. here. Maybe she’d answer YOUR questions?
Quote: We were in bed making love and I asked her which part of her clit felt better when I touched her down there. She told me the answer, honestly, then ended the conversation saying that was enough divulging information for now.
At the risk of repeating myself: wow! This has got me stumped. If her attitude was simply one of shyness or embarrassment, that would be one thing, but the feeling of secrecy is puzzling... As if she knows very well what the answer is but won't tell you. And I don't get the feeling (I'm probably reading too much into this) that it's not that you have no right to know... but it's more.... well, I don't know where I'm going with that. I'm completely at a loss. Maybe she MB a lot when she goes to bed by herself and she's embarrassed about it... embarrassed that she KNOWS which side of her clit feels better-- like a Nice Girl wouldn't know. But she DID tell you, so I guess that's not it.
You must be so frustrated! God, I would love it if a guy would really ask me what feels good and what doesn't and WANT to hear the answer. Most of the guys I've known (present one INCLUDED) don't take even subtle direction very well. My bf has even, on occasion, given the impression that HE knows better than I do what feels good/should feel good to me!
Is there a chance she may have only made that statement as a way of telling you she enjoyed that session. It was a here and now statement a compliment of sorts. Not something she thought you would carry into the future and analize the meaning of later.
Quote: Cemar, take this as the ultimate expression of love, and her full attempt at giving you what you desire... her.
It's not enough to say you want her to want you. You need to appreciate the fact that she is willing to try, and that she is at least getting close to the target. Gosh, I'd get pretty discouraged if my H didn't appreciate the efforts I make to show him how much I want him to be happy. You are looking for 100% effort, and not recognizing it when you see it.
I’m with Cemar on this one (here you go buddy, sticking up for you again). It isn’t love what she is showing, in a perverse sort of way, it is a kind of respect but it isn’t love. Willing isn’t wanting, putting out isn’t showing love. Having seen both sides of it with my W, the difference is dramatic.
Last night, we were in bed, I was trying to figure out if she wanted to go to sleep (she seemed tired) when she rolled over and it was obvious she was willing, I wasn’t sure if she was ‘wanting or willing’ her advances continued and I decided to play along. Her eyes looking into mine as we ML and the feeling of our arms around each other went well beyond just ‘putting out’. Ok maybe I confuse desire with love, but the effort isn’t the act, it is the feeling BEFRE, during and after the act. It is desire, the feeling inside of wanting, physically and mentally. If it was just about sex, lets face it there are plenty of places/ ways of getting that. It is about wanting THAT person from head to, um, toes.
HD, CeMar, Everyone knows how to want, but who wants something that they consider another chore, something that may be painful, tiring, or annoying. At different times in my life I have thought sex was all of those things. I see sex as a more integrated part of my/our lives, but it took a lot of putting out when I really did not want to, it took a lot of painful soul searching, it took a lot of changing what I thought to be the truth. Are you making it worth the struggle for your W to take on a task of such magnitude?
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
That is the point (and excuse the circular logic here) If it is a chore, is becomes a pressure release not ML to me. Now a pressure release isn’t bad either but it isn’t ML it is MB with a partner. Make it worth her while (avoiding the cheep set up BTW), yes I would try to make it worth her while if it is part of an effort to make sex part of ‘being’ not just part of satisfying me. Like I said, sex begins before going into the bedroom, and doesn’t end with an O.
Right now, after thinking about last night and my W, I feel desire for her, real physical wanting (and no that isn’t a hard on). I can feel the tingling and warmth just thinking about wrapping my arms around her naked body. Closing my eyes for a minute and wanting to feel my cheek against the back of her neck as we spoon. I’m a technical kind of guy who understands the physical world around him. How can thinking of my wife, just thinking, cause a physical reaction without her even being here. That is the kind of desire I hope she has for me.
HD, Sex for you is all encompassing, and that is good, but for LD folk that is intimidating at best, paralyzing at worst. People don't just give up something as great as sexuality for frivolous reasons. In an overwhelming majority of LDs there is/are very good reason/s for lack of sex drive. For LD spouses to begin to take a look at these issues is a huge undertaking. It's like asking an uninterested party to love the opera or the symphony. One must take it at it's basics and work from there. For many LD that means starting from the beginning and changing assumptions about sex that have been ingrained since early childhood. Often it means fighting the LD that comes natural, admitting painful truths, deep soul searching. It is easy to give up in the face of such a task.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
HDSocal, I don't know if this will help... did you read any of the beginning of my thread below, "Reclaiming Your Sexual Self"? That's the title of a book, and here's a quote from my thread where I describe one of the points that the book makes:
Quote: I've only read a little bit more, but it does look like it's going to be pretty good. She makes the distinction between what she calls "desire" and what she calls "arousal." Desire (these are her definitions for the purposes of the discussion in her book-- others may have other definitions outside this book) is NOT accompanied by physical sensations. Arousal is the next stage, when there are physical sensations present. She makes the point that early in a relationship desire and arousal will usually happen simultaneously, and we probably think they are one and the same thing. Later, after you are more familiar with each other, when you're sleeping in the same bed every night, after kids, jobs, etc., desire and arousal may separate like a single highway that splits in two. Now, later in the relationship, because we don't feel the physical sensations of arousal that always used to happen with desire, we assume there is NO desire. Desire very likely still is present-- namely, a desire to be physically close, to express love, to do The Thing that feels so good once you start Doing It. This "desire" needs to be recognized and acted upon. Once things are underway, arousal will follow. This matches what some have said on this board about being aware of the flickers of desire and not ignoring them.
This approach makes sense. Think of it. In the early stages of the R, all you had to do was know that your SO was going to call or be over that night, and your engines started revving. Now, after years together, you think of him/her coming home and you physically don't get that "engines revving" feeling, so you conclude that you no longer desire him/her. But she's saying this is not true. Desire is wanting and at this stage of the R is a mental thing. Some may still feel desire and then arousal (physical sensations) very quickly even after years together. This is not to discount them. But the point is, that even if the two don't appear together, that doesn't mean desire isn't present or that you are no longer "in love."
I think what you're describing-- getting all warm and fuzzy when you think of spooning with your W-- is what this author would call "arousal," viz., actual physical sensations.
What she calls "desire" is what we have been calling "willingness," and she suggests that we not overlook that the two used to be identical or simultaneous (and for some HD people they still are after many years of marriage, lucky dogs!), but they can still go hand in hand.
Like I said, this may just be playing with words and no help at all. However, you might find the book worthwhile.
But she DID tell you, so I guess that's not it.