Quote: What he does now simply does not turn me on.
I feel terrible writing that.
Hi HP... It took me a long time to figure out that my H's awkward/goofy initiations weren't doing it for me, a longer time to communicate this to him, and an even longer time for him to hear me and respond. I think the reason you're not making headway in this area is because he knows that you will come through and drive the interaction ( you aren't LD enough to forgo sex...fortunately). But, you are less HD than you were before all this physical pain entered the picture, and because of this, the dynamics are going to have to change if you are going to keep a regular sex life. The solution is to keep confronting him and letting him know how important this is to you...not much fun, I'm afraid.
Would it have been harder for you to say to your wife "I want to ML" or "I want you" than to physically initiate?
My H will sorta physicially initiate (see above description) but rarely tells me outright. I have given up on the blatant shows of desire from him--it's not in his character and not something he aspires to and I'm fine with that--but I gotta have something kwim?
Before this really became an issue we were ML about 4x per week. So I knew from the frequency alone that he desired me..the fact that he was initiating so frequently absorbed some of the blow of him not saying that he wanted to, or not being that aggressive about it. Now that the frequency has slipped I find myself getting agitated and wanting that elusive more.
But I want to go about this the right way and to address it when the time is right, and you kind folks are helping me get my thoughts in order.
Honey, regarding the exchange you and I had on your Anger Management thread...
I posted on that thread
Quote: honey wrote Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes he was sexually aggressive. Up to and until he started getting super involved with church. Then he mentally checked out of our marriage and his desire went with it.
[Lil wrote]I have this picture in my mind of you and H (before you were married) sitting on the sofa watching TV or something and you waiting for him to make a move and wanting him to but he never would, so you did. Does that sound like you, or am I thinking of someone else?
I was rereading some of my posts from when I first joined the board back in September of last year, and I came across the post of yours that I was thinking of. It's from 10/28/04
Quote: This morning he wrote me an email that said he is not sexually aggressive. He reminded me that on our second date, he was too shy to even sit next to me. We were at his house and we were sitting on separate sofas! He said, If I was that much of a lameass then why would you think it would be different now? I am the same person! I responded that I am certain that he WANTED to sit next to me, but was too shy/awkward to do it.
When my bf and I went out the very first time, we spent five hours talking. When we parted, I hugged him, and I remember that the hug was very lukewarm given the depth of the conversation we had been having. I made a mental note of it.
Hi Lil, Yes he did do that. That was before we had ever had any contact at all, even holding hands, so I was not thinking of that. I thought you were talking about once we were in a sexual relationship, kwim?
He was very shy to initiate any contact, in the beginning. We had been on nine dates without so much as a peck and I finally blurted out 'are you gay?' which offended him but got him off his duff.
From then on, he was the sexual initiator and he was quite motivated. He did not let a day pass without it and made his desire obvious. This lasted throughout our courtship and into the first 2 years of marriage. I expected the passion to die down a little after we married but I was taken aback at the abrupt cooling off period that happened right after he started going to church all the time. I didn't know how to handle that, and consequently handled it poorly, and another 4 years ensued before I got up enough nerve to say something. In the meantime we lived separate lives.
But, yes, you are correct. When we first met, he was painfully shy and awkward. After I was "his" he had no problems going after what he wanted and would get irritated if I had to turn him down for any reason.
Lil, Here is why I thought you must have been thinking of someone else:
Because I never made a move. H did.
He was shy and awkward, yes, but if he didn't make a move, nothing happened. I did not take over, in the way that I do now. I didn't start doing this until a few years ago. I don't particularly care for it.
It's not terrible, but I prefer him to be doing it. However, that's not all that mature of an attitude so I will settle for a little reciprocity. If I am to believe what he says, he does desire me, so there theoretically are times when he wants me. I don't think he has stretched himself at all if he won't even do what he was comfortable doing for the first 6 years of our marriage--being the initiator. It's like he's gotten a taste of me bringing the heat and is now refusing to have it any other way.
Sorry, I just got your message about H (I'm in Piecing, btw).
Hair loss is definitely a symptom of hypothyroidism.
As for the odor question - well, I've never read about it being mentioned in relation to thyroid disease. Still - i will relate a rather embarrassing personal fact - which may or may not have anything to do with my thyroid. (I'm post-radioiodine ablation of my thyroid for Graves disease, now hypothyroid on hormone replacement). I still have problems with nightsweats (unclear whether it is menopausal - but I'm on BCPs - or thyroid related - altho my numbers are normal). One thing I have noticed, though - when I sweat during the day, like during a workout, it is normal. When I sweat in my sleep, though - PHEW! STINKY! I have no idea why the difference.
That said - diabetes can also cause a change in body odor, and diabetes is more common in families with thyroid disease - so H should get checked for both. Also, some medications affect your body odor.
H and I were going thru a rough patch due to a discussion about frequency that came up. I had vowed to take the high road (a road I am not familiar with) and not mention it until his job issues settled down, but the topic came up and well...........
I didn't do the best job of phrasing it. In fact I was being sarcastic and whiny. I think I held it in too long and let it build into resentment. He did not react well to the sarcasm and we bounced back and forth between being ugly to each other and being kind and trying to see the other's POV. This went on for a couple days. All the while we were staying OK with each other but not close. I was too embarrassed to write the update here because I was ashamed that I had promised to shelve the frequency discussion and then dove right into it, as soon as it came up.
The good news is that after a couple days of this, we were both in a space where we wanted to work it out and, even more than that, we wanted to resolve it. I was trying to explain to him my feelings about the frequency and finally did it in a way that struck gold with him. I mean, HE GOT ME. For the first time in, well, ever he realized what I was saying. I explained that the first day of sex, it takes the edge off. I feel a little better but am ready for the next day. The next day, I feel better but still pretty randy. The third day I'm starting to really feel physically sated and by the fourth day I'm totally bushed and ready for a break on Day 5.
He sorta incredulously said, Well I'm tellin you right now, I can't physically do that! I quietly said, And H I can't do it your way, either.
This really made an impact on him. I think he was so caught up in what he could or couldn't do that he had never stopped to think about how it felt to be me.
I went on to say that he was going downhill, in terms of desire, and I was going uphill. And that once a week sex, in which the edge is taken off but nothing else, just was not satisfying for me on a long term basis. And that's why I felt so irritable lately. I was trying to suck it up but it just seemed like it was neverending. He admitted that he really didn't remember the time when it was more frequent than what we had been lately doing. I said, Well it was pretty darn exciting--too bad you don't remember!
He said that this was the best explanation he had ever heard and he felt that he finally understood why I never seemed "satisfied"..we are just mismatched in terms of where we are AT on a given day, with our level of desire. He's winding down, I'm winding up. He kept repeating the next day, Uphill downhill, yeah I get it now! He even offered hj's for me if he felt he couldn't do the whole monty.
this is HUGELY humongous for him.
Prior to this, he was a "this is what I'm able to give and that's that" sort of person. There was no trying to understand what it felt like to be me, because it didn't really matter to him--he was able to give X and I'd better receive X with a glad heart or else be miserable for the rest of my days.
I think it was partially this attitude that kept me pressing for more, and partially the fact that he held this attitude while saying, Now you know I don't want you to have to mb cause that's against our religion....
I wanted some compassion from him, some understanding of where I'm coming from. In these last years I have really attempted to see his POV and be empathetic and understanding. His attempts at compassion were to up the frequency and hope that I was ok with it.
For my part, the times that I tried to explain it in a kind and non-judgemental way were far outweighed by the b*tching times. It is humiliating for me to have to feel like I'm begging him to ML more. I hate it. I let my pride get in the way and next thing I know I'm saying in an ugly way.
Anyway, quite possibly the best news of all was that we got into an argument yesterday, non-sex-related, which is extremely rare for us. We don't fight much and when we do, it's almost always about ML. Anyway, this fight was over but the bad feelings lingered. We climbed into bed and snuggled up to one another. I was aware that we had made a date to ML but wanted no part of it--the whole weekend had had too much conflict for my blood. I just wanted it over! Instead H said that we needed to ML. He took charge of the whole experience and made it happen. I was amazed!!!!!!
This morning he wrote to me that he considered it a victory to have fought through the bad feelings and work towards turning it into something positive--ML. I replied that it was HIS victory, and it is.
I think this is the toughest thing, just trying to get our spouses to "get it." You and your husband have different needs, so your husband thinks the solution is to do things his way, all the time. How could this possibly make sense? I don't know, but I have the same problem.....
Congrats on breaking through, at least somewhat....
Yeah, you know some people have told me that it is not necessary that he "get it". And, for sure, he doesn't have to completely understand my position. But I evidently was not explaining myself (or he was too closed off to hear it) well enough because he just couldn't understand why I was not satisfied. At least now he understands that I am not doing it to "push" him for more or because I enjoy moving the target. But because I simply cannot physically tolerate sex once per week and still refrain from mb and still keep my cheery attitude. He was wanting all of these things from me and I was getting way resentful. His resentment comes in the form of thinking that I am never happy and no matter how much he gives it isn't enough.
Explaining in clear terms and including numbers and days and as much specific info seemed to help a lot. It gave him a concrete picture.
At his core, he just wants to please me. His chances for doing this are greatly improved if he has specific info, right! And the funny thing is we've had this exact convo before, complete with me saying this same thing, but for whatever reason it went well this time, and it clicked.
Honey, that is most excellent, and again, it's another example of why waiting for an optimal time to have a convo just doesn't work; better to air things out than allow resentment to brew. What a good feeling to get validation for your POV instead of banging heads...and WTG Mr.HP for coming through big time...wish we could congratulate him on his victory ( could you imagine)?
