Keep remembering one thing.....NO EXPECTATIONS. Since you have just returned from your trip you now have to go back to waiting and watching and see what happens.
The "lost youth" thing sounds really quite common. I just wanted to think about things from your ex-W perspective. Here she is suddenly single with friends that no longer want to go out on the town, can't drop things/go on vacation at the drop of a hat, and are probably attached with children. Who does a person turn to if they want to try new things or do something that they used to do? It pretty much has to be single younger people for the most part. I note that myself. My friends are finally all settled down with kids and a life. So your wife's choices might be more for convenience than anything. The young attitude I'm sure rubs off. It does on me too. From my standpoint I am attracted to a young attitude as long as it doesn't negatively affect your life (lose your job, become an alcoholic etc). Maybe your wife wants to be noticed. Perhaps you could acknowledge the younger acting her in a positive way. Face it, this stuff right now is so doom and gloom and serious all the time that just "letting your hair down" and being a little more immature is a breath of fresh air. Just my .02 Perhaps she'd like to see the younger, less serious side of you as well.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Choosing new, unlikely companions, including those in different (care-free) stage of life is definitely an MLC trait. This is not just my observation but that of others as well (including in books on MLC). Also, as Wes rightly points out, there is a question of availability of people in married with children stage of life. I would not be overly concerned about any of this Gabe. All part of her process of doing identity work. One of the first things my W said when she WA was that she needed to learn to be more assertive. For a while there she practiced that to an extreme, being almost rude. She still gets that way sometimes when something bothers her (see my post of last week).
Gabe, I know you are not irreligious, so I would recommend the book on "women in midlife crisis" by Conway. It is from a non-secular perspective, but even though I am agnostic and secular, I found it very useful nonetheless.
On the other hand, Gabe, i would not view her telling you about her hair-related issues as being projections or anything. I would view that as a positive, that she is willing to expose her weakness and insecurities to you. If she is truly "emotionally" fully divorced from you she would never do that. Right now she is "emotionally divorced" from herself (i.e. MLC)!!
I don't think you are competing with your W either. MY WAW has dropped a lot of balls, even with regard to my D3, that I have had to pick up. Your effort in getting your S5 to read is truly commendable.
" I'm confident in what I can do and offer, and I know that I'm not replaceable in S5's life." - absolutely (duh!). Your W will come to her senses about this in good time. It has taken my WAW two years to this weekend when she said to D3 apropos of nothing that "your daddy is so, so, sweet to you". Gabe, hold to the truth and it will be evident to her in good time.
" She reminds me A LOT of W at that age - impulsive, overly assertive, and full of confidence - all things that W admires, and maybe wants to recapture." - OOOh, Gabe, this is exactly what my W does. She has a male coworker whos brusque personality she adopts sometimes when she is around me. It is uncanny. My W is anything but brusque by nature so the contrast is staggering to me (but also transparent and I can easily deal with it).
" From a positive angle, perhaps she is trying to connect to me, or merely display some initiative?" - Yes, I think this may hold some truth. You see, she wants to feel some measure of control on her being able to mother your S5 without your help. She wants that self-affirmation. This helps her counteract some of the insecurities that she feels. I know it hurts Gabe, but give her that opportunity to self-affirm. You know what, it will not affect your R with her one iota. You are still such a huge part of your S5's life it wont matter.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
Yep, Wes - I think there is a bit of that - W wanting me to let my hair down a bit as well. In fact, her trying to surf (deathly afraid of the ocean in our M) was a clear message that she condoned my return to surfing and my voiced intention to teach S5. She's also be positive about my other efforts to grow/do non-adult/work things, like take up guitar again.
I see how she'd have fewer options for friends amoung other women who are likely married or with kids, as she's trying to do s/t different than that. I'm thankful she's not diving into a crowd of rowdy divorcee's right away, as I'm not sure how well I'd do with an OM in the sitch.
UD, your reminder that W is trusting me by voicing her insecurities was huge.
I have to guard against this negative/worry spin of her behavior (and stop analyzing it so much). Jo, maybe this was what you were getting at regarding the judgmental air of my posts about her.
Like the others, despite what you try to project, I can also sense urgency in your actions. That if ONLY W would listen, we could get through this nonsense.
But keep listening, VERY important and keep participating in activities for you.
We all need to become whole again if we want to have a whole relationship.
I feel the urgency that you mention, and you're right - a heavy dose of GAL work should help. I think 6 wks of overload teaching and single-parenting for 2.5 wks took a bit of that balance away, tho I wouldn't trade a min of time with S5 for it. I am very excited to have more time to work on things.
My sitch is going thru a slightly rough patch. When I returned to work this week, W had posted her research on boards/locations that involved either "cutting in line" in front of others (me included), or not approved by the department (merely taping it to the painted wall). This is s/t that I'm in charge of (committee work, yeah!) - not sure if she knew/recalled that or not. Anyway, I took her work down, placed in her mailbox, added her to the waitlist, sent out a general email that distributed the waitlist, and asked folks to merely communicate with me re requests to post.
Next day, W refused to meet my eye, then told me later by phone that she was my equal, and that I wasn't to lecture her (I tried to explain my actions, but maybe shouldn't have brought it up). I think this is the first of many possible awkward moments related to us working at the same place. However, she overstepped a professional boundary, and I corrected her as I would any colleague - in a kind, prof manner (she was not mentioned in the email beyond being on the waitlist).
A few positives included W warmly saying high when I came by her office to do an agreed-on drop off of child support $ (but then again, I was bringing her $ ). Also, when I called to say goodnight to S5, I mentioned that I was going to be on the evening news (interviewed about the Kansas serial killer) and she asked what time/channel. Overall tho, I'm continuing to feel a cooling off of W toward me that started over the phone during her vacation, and have wondered if she's successfully killed off any remaining feelings toward me.
I'm taking Bruce's advice and going a bit gray, shifting to heavy listening mode, and avoiding all pursuit.
You are perhaps making too many assumptions. I have gone through those patches of feeling like my WAW has lost all feelings for me on a periodic basis. But then we are still here two years later hanging by a few threads. And I know for sure that her feelings are not gone. So, from my experience, things ebb and flow. Your feeling that GAL activities need to be ratcheted up makes perfect sense.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
You have had so many positive results from your work that it may be that you have grown comfortable with the situation as there hasn't been much to worry about. Now that things (W) may be distantcing for you, be prepared for the negatives and do your best to detach and let it roll off your back.
I'm not worried about you, since you're one of the most grounded people I know, but when a negative happens to me, it is really hard to keep that bright face on and the PMA up.
I agree with what has been said Gabriel. Don't A$$ume anything
You have been down this road long enough now to know that our S's are one way one day and completely different the next or a few days later.
You can believe her feelings for you are not all gone. She just wants you to think that. Do as you said and back off. No pursuing. That is when they start looking for you
Hang in there. You are doing just fine. You are what keeps most of us in here sane
I'm so much better at giving advice when it is not my ex-spouse I'm talking about. I think that this comment...
Quote: I'm continuing to feel a cooling off of W toward me that started over the phone during her vacation, and have wondered if she's successfully killed off any remaining feelings toward me.
sounds a whole lot like me. I worry when she's a little more cool that she's mad or is killing off any residual love. It's our crazymaker going.
There could be quite a few reasons for her behavior that have nothing to do with you. Or she could be a little upset that you took her stuff down. I think that was very responsible of you to perform your duties even though there was sure to be backlash. Maybe she expected special privledges--like you would kiss her butt--since she thinks you are still hung up on her. That show of strength might have gone over badly in the short term but might pay dividends later. Good for you.
Gabe, the honest truth (in my opinion) is that a lot of those feelings of love are gone. They are not buried. Love is a conscience decision and needs work to maintain it. I've been divorced before this and believe me there is no love (none) for my 1st wife. I didn't work to preserve any. Our presence on this board and thinking about the R is what maintains our love. Our ex's aren't working on it...so the love is bound to "wither on the vine". My feeling is that at one point in time we had attributes that attracted our spouses to us and led to love. We need to show them those things that are attractive and slowly build up love through loving actions. Love isn't just going to suddenly spring from within like it's been held back by a dam. It's more likely that the dam is nearly empty and we need to fill it to overflowing to get the love back. None of us know how much feelings our ex's have for us. They aren't going to tell us except accidentally through actions and occasional stray comments.
So basically we have to show them our best side. The one that was attractive to them and hope that we become irresistable. But I feel that at some point in all this we have to have the opportunity to work on restoring the love. Can we really do that with limited interaction?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
). Also, when I called to say goodnight to S5, I mentioned that I was going to be on the evening news (interviewed about the Kansas serial killer) and she asked what time/channel. Overall tho, I'm continuing to feel a cooling off of W toward me that started over the phone during her vacation, and have wondered if she's successfully killed off any remaining feelings toward me.