Let me address Wes first. My opinion is many people try to quantify, measure, label the WAS's behavior, because as I said, we do not understand it. Maybe trying better to understand their behavior will offer some insight, perhaps no relief from their selfish behavior, but some insight.
In the case of being poison or dangerous to the WAS, then they would avoid us completely. And in the beginning of the situation, this was the case. XW wanted little to do with me, staying away from the house before she moved out, not calling as regular, certainly not engaging in ANY conversation. And in Wes's case, his XW clearly does not find much reason to stay away or not talk to him.
I think by continuing to be friendly, upbeat, moving forward, we mitigate the fear factor. They find reason to call or be around. Will this lead to a revived or expanded R? Who knows? But we know what the alternative brings.
Quote: listen, validate, empathize, be patient, treat the WAS well, GAL, give space, be gentle, change ourselves for the better, do not assign blame, wish the best for them, support them through their hard times, etc.
This is the summation of what it should be about.
As for religion, this was something XW discarded after the "bomb", separation, D. I once told her people were praying for her and she said, "You know how I feel about religion."
ILY's, in my mind, are pressure and a definite NO, unless you find an ideal situation or opportunity and expect nothing in return.
It really is about having no expectations.
In the intial pursuit of a new person, we can once again use Wes as an example, we would not likely say ILY, so it seems to follow we would not say this to the WAS in words, but in actions.
Whatever the reason, we let the M and R slip away and the WAS slipped away. I've asked myself before, do I reach the point where she should want to return that I no longer want her to be an intimate part of my life?
Quote: listen, validate, empathize, be patient, treat the WAS well, GAL, give space, be gentle, change ourselves for the better, do not assign blame, wish the best for them, support them through their hard times, etc.
This is the ultimate goal. And for many of us, if we could have done this before there were problems in the R/M we wouldn't be here.
But, other than GAL, and changing ourselves for the better, it is a very self limiting goal. The WAS is the person we married for better of worse, we are sticking w/them through the worst, but are they anywhere around for us? (This tends to put me in selfish mode to expect that and of course, there are 'no expectations')
As I try to label and understand my ex's behaviors; it does gain me some insight to the whole problem. An example w/my s, if I didn't know he was delayed; my life would be much harder as the things that work w/a "normal" child do not work w/him. So I have had to let go of that expectations, and keep trying to find what works.
We can't let the MLC behavior take over our lives though. Therefore the efforts we put into our own lives have to benefit us and work on our own happiness and PMA.
I am rambling here and not debating or arguing the issue this morning. Whether our M dissolved due to MLC or constipation, it still happened. Our views of the current sitch may or may not help resolve the problems, but it can put our mind more at ease in our efforts. All I can hope for is to be able to move onto a happier place in my life, w/ or w/o ex. T
Thanks for checkin in. Why am I not posting on my thread? I dont know. I am exhausted mentally and little physically and I have had a couple curve balls to dodge for the past week and a lot of deadlines at work that I am laboring through. I NEED A VACATION. And heaven knows I am sick of taking vacations on my own or with D3. I have done this for the past two years (since D3 was D1). Not much of a vacation, when you are changing diapers 10 times a day, huh? (Obvious disclaimer- D3 is the light of my life, but you know what I mean, I just want to at least have a warm body next to me when I am catching a Seinfeld rerun or watching the Daily Show). Well, I am just very tired right now but I know this too will pass. The training for the marathon is good, it fills my lonely times, gets me outside for long periods of time, and gets me to sleep instantly when I hit the sack. But it also takes a toll on my energy level for other things. So, that is where I am, just exhausted. I am going to be at a meeting in Boston for a few days. Still work, but maybe getting away from here will make my spirits rebound. I have been in these low energy periods many times during the last two years and something or other comes along and jogs me out of it, so I guess I will just go with the flow.
My WAW and I are getting along fine. I see some baby steps but I am not going to react to them with too much hope or enthusiasm or raise my expectations. I have been there many times before and every time I have expectations and do a "what gives" talk, she does a quick draw of the D guns. Sort of like that standoff between James Coburn and the drunken dude in my second favorite Western (The Mag. 7). First favorite Western - The Good, Bad and the Ugly. Love the music, love Clint Eastwood, Eli Wallach, Lee Van Cleef (boy, were they good!). Anyhoo, I digress......
Yeah, I guess, as this post indicates, I am just tired and drifting. Actually I notice that many of us on this forum that I am keeping track of are sort of drifting and off course lately - Bruce, Kevin, me, Wes, dejavu, Gabe, Jo. All of us are off-equilibrium right now it seems like. Or maybe I am just projecting my own sense of desultoriness on everybody. Bah, I am too tired even to look for appropriate emoticons (Oops, wrong choice).
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
I hear you about the solo vacations. Are there any opportunities to go somewhere with an adults group? Sounds like you're longing for intimacy, so would 'lighter' fare help with that - dinner out w/ a friend, convos, etc...?
Nicely done continuing with the running. I've got to adjust my sleep/wake cycle, maybe running would help. Since I gave up coffee, I think having a coke at lunch is too much - keeping me up at night. Even with exercise.
The stabilty or sense of peace will come from within us - our own realization that we will be okay and are doing fine. I am so looking forward to getting back into the house, but I realize that this will be all the more sweet after a 2 month longer delay (Oct). Then, projects and improvements, stamping 'me' and my tastes everywhere will help with that GAL impression - for me and W.
Just wanted to note that I'm reading Midlife Crisis at 30 by Macko & Rubin. It has a lot of stories of young women trying to do it all succumbing to this pattern. Theres a great chapter on male perspective/experience with this as well. Very helpful.
Hmm..an MLC book that I have not read?!! I am slacker arent I? Amazon.com, here I come...
All:
Just want to record some baby steps from my WAW: 1. When she comes over she lies down in my bed (used to be our bed ) and plays with D3. 2. Accidental touching is routine now and neither she nor I care to feel anything is strange about it. 3. WAW actually bought me two pairs of running socks at the mall for me last night! She said she was out buying (up a storm) clothes for herself and she picked me up a couple. First non-occasion gift in 2 years folks! Her LL is gift-giving. What's with that? 4. She offered to give me a ride to the airport tomorrow (I did not ask).... 5. Continues to make me tea when I go over to her place to pick up D3 and offers breakfast-type things. Totally
Many concrete baby steps here. OK, what do I do? I am just going to maintain my position and wait for what? Any suggestions? In the past every time she has made baby steps, when I have reacted and put pressure, kaboom, you know the routine......I want to hear words of reconnection, from my WAW, not actions. Am I being stupid?
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
How have you reacted to baby steps in the past? You don't want to do it that way.
Are you sure her LL isn't acts of service, because she seems to be giving you that. I think all the things you have listed are great. I guess I'd stay relaxed, positive, happy, confident and not make any advances. It sounds like to me that she is actually progressing rather than just staying in one spot with the R. I'd let her move at her pace. I sincerely believe that you don't necessarily have to have some sort of R talk at this point or suddenly shower her with acts of service or whatever. She's getting there....just be patient and go with the flow. You know..when you first fell in love with each other I doubt very seriously it was preceded with a R talk. One of these days down the road you might find that things spontaneously happen.
When she's on the bed do you get on there too to play with your daughter? Or just watch? Just curious. I probably wouldn't/couldn't restrain myself (as you know). Just be patient UD. It's all good.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
(Oops, wrong choice).
) and plays with D3.