You are spot on. It took me a while to realize those things (too long, almost 1.5 years). When I did, things started to get better with WAW and also I started to feel better within me. Anger and resentment are debilitating feelings and when you cannot shed them you give off a negative aura that repels and frightens the WASs.
I am in a very testing time right now. My parents have figured out that something is very wrong with me and WAW. I had tried to hide this sitch from them for so long but it was inevitable that the crap should become apparent to them eventually. I am trying to muster my strength to deal with it and so am lying low on the boards for now. Also have a lot of work emergencies. WAW is low as well but is planning a lot of GAL activities for herself including several out-of-town trips. That is good actually. I am exhausted with dealing with her and would like a break from the drama for a while.
This compassion thing is exhausting, folks.
BTW, for all who are dealing with a spouse who seems, at midlife to have lost a few key marbles and are blaming their ennui, malaise, discontent and unrest solely on you, I highly recommend the following book: Awakening at midlife by Kathleen Brehony (avaliable on Amazon).
I have found it an excellent read. It will help you see what the MLCer is experiencing and hopefully develop some understanding and perhaps even sympathy for them.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
Excellent points about the importance of attitude, NYSurvivor and UD. I find it very hard to keep the unconditional love and PMA going without great self-care going as well.
Sounds like a break from the sitch for both of you is timely.
I like the reading suggestion re the MLC topic. I've just ordered it! IMHO - one to avoid: Understanding the Mid-Life Crisis by Peter O'Connor - far too Jungian/psychoanalytic/mumbo jumbo. I got a bit out of Women in Midlife Crisis by Conway but I need more info, as I'm still wrestling a bit with not enough compassion. I feel a bit what you feel Bruce regarding the WAS dropping the ball - perhaps I'm too responsible, practical.
I've been using the concept of the 180 to 'gift' myself with time for self-care, GAL stuff, as W still tries to guilt/control me into not doing it. I think she'd be much more comfortable with her decision or with me in general if I didn't show as much positive change or seem as attractive to a potential other as I now do. Try to keep your self-care up UD, during this busy time.
Also, regarding your parents. My father has communicated to W twice two things: 1) he forgives her for the D and 2) that he still loves her like a daughter. The first time he did so, she got p/o'd, as she took it as being judgmental. This last time (this week), she softened and warmed toward me - maybe it lighted some guilt or communicated that she'd be welcome back. Anyway, try to communicate to your parents how fragile your sitch is, and how necessary it is for them to merely be supportive to you rather than seeking to have their needs met (releasing anger, punishing, etc...)
Thanks for your advice regarding how to handle the thing with my parents. I was planning to do exactly what you suggest and am relieved at it being reinforced.
To you and Bruce, a day does not pass when at least a few times I mentally berate my WAW for what she has done with the family. But, as I see more of her torment and the MLC unsettledness and unhappness in her, I feel like I am better off than her right now. I would not like to be in teh strange netherworld of psyche that she is in now. Reading about MLC helped me understand that. At the least, I now have a way to address my anger and anguish.
Gabriel, I actually liked most of O'Connor's book. I did not know anything about MLC and its psychological basis before I read that book. When I used to lurk on the MLC forum here and on midlifeclub.com I would see all the (mostly) women on there whose husbands had abandoned them in favor of much younger women and red sportscars and I just thought they were hurting from bad behavior of their MLC-WAHs. O'Connor explained why men do those kinds of things in their midlife. He does not condone the behavior however. Ultimately, whatever we may call it, it is irresponsible action and just jettisoning your relationship by walking away from all the problems with it. The Conways' book is more anecdotal and demonstrates that it can happen to anybody. But it lacked a rational framework that my scientific training demands. Brehony's book is somewhere in between. I must warn you that it is very Jungian also. From what I gather, most MLC books go back to Jung because he was the first perhaps to record his own experiences with MLC. I hear Gail Sheehy has a very good book on it, but I read that Brehony's is a more updated, slightly more heavily psychological book. Remarkably, while several thousands on us on this bb and elsewhere are at the receiving end of MLC, the psychology world seems to have little in the form of therapy to deal with this malady. Certainly, the tehrapists that my WAW went to and the MC that we went to made no mention of it. Both O'Connor and Brehony are psychologists and seem to be the very few who have written on it (both of them had MLCs).
Gabe, my WAW does not seem very enthusiastic about my GAL activity and PMA either. It irks her. It probably feels to her like "why is he all positive and happy while I am feeling like crap". It forces them to ask "is there something the matter with me internally that makes me unhappy? (God forbid!)". It is far more convenient to blame external factors, such as the LBS for their internal misery as well as the ongoing drama.
Thanks for your inputs, my friend.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
I see the benefits of the book. Thanks for pointing out that role of Jung. I've wondered, tho, about whether there is much overlap b/t men and women in MLC.
I took a gander at a BB forum that is for women going thru MLC themselves - Women in MLC - and was spooked by it.
Lots and lots of doublespeak and contradicting. A few posts by LBS pointed out that a lack of core values or ethics led to their WAWs wild, self-centered behavior/choices. To me, it just sounds like a major identity crisis.
What was chilling to me was how convinced these women were that their husbands were yesterday's news and that their husbands were set in their ways, with no chance for change. This, despite their own free reign with quite extreme changes in their own behavior. Also, almost a mockery over the LBS's attempts to keep a candle light (I see much more wisdom on non-pursuit, GAL, and mystery now!).
The other feature that struck me was the notably admission of depression or still not being happy despite D, affairs, changes, with no duh! moment leading to a realization that maybe they had made a mistake.
Finally, there was an epidemic quality to the MLC, with women noting that they had a friend doing s/t similar.
There is way more planning, focus, and discipline in DBing, folks, with the backbone of this approach being solution-focus therapy. I think I'll reread that portion of DB/DR again tonight.
Quote: I like this debate guys. If you wish to shift over to my thread to continue it so we dont impose on Kevin you are welcome. In the end, you will find that we are all probably in agreement, just with different shades of reasoning.
I'm going to do just that, UD. But first I am going to answer Bruce's reply here!
Quote: There will be no reasoning here
To some point, we can always reason away other's behavior. But do we want to excuse it? Not entirely. Do we want to forgive them? That's up to the individual's own set of ethics and beliefs. Do we want to change ourselves for the sake of personal growth? I, for one, answer YES.
As my s17 stated to me, I am being overanalytic in hopes of making logical sense out of illogical actions. But I have done that in all areas of my life. If I don't get a job position, I look over all the possibilities of why, and make changes for the next opportunity. Still, I have no clue why I didn't get that one I really wanted, but I can focus on my changes to get the next one.
So now, I have the choice to look over all his behaviors and mine to make any necessary changes to my own approach and behaviors for the next R (w/ex or not!)
On the debate of MLC, even if the WAS is not in a full blown crisis; what would be the ill effects of using that knowledge in dealing w/them? UD, would you use a different approach in your situation if your w was not in MLC.
As for the signs I have seen in my ex: 1. Bought a Harley 2. Started hanging out w/single friends more regularly. 3. "All I ever do is work to help out others, I do nothing for myself" 4. "Single guys have more fun" 5. My oldest son's father passes due to lung cancer; ex is just plan 'weirded out' over this. (realization of immortality?) Asks for a div on the way home from the funeral. (He 'forgot' this comment later!) 6. Went through a couple of appearance changes. For 6 months he grew a beard, quit smoking, etc. Then 'someone' made a comment and he changed over to clean cut and new wardrobe. (he blamed me for the comment.) 7. Tried to fight for custody of our s8 and gave up when he realized it would interfere in his lifestyle. 8. Extremely possessive. (HIS house, HIS bike, HIS job, etc) 9. Bouts of extreme depression, talk of runnning away, etc.
So, I don't know, could these be reasoned away to some other problem or disorder? Would I want to use a different approach? Or am I not looking deep enough into my own reactions to the changes he made?
I have noticed in the past that I have reacted in anger (which just gets him angry and set in denial), done my share of pleading and begging (this puts him in withdrawal), and to some point distanced myself from him (and then he pursued!) (I'm talking about an emotional distance here, not the physical distance.) But it all seems like we just keep going in circles until one of us changes the action/reaction.
Sorry, UD, took over your thread and just rambling away this morning! T
PS. I'm reading Chapman, and have my Conway book back now!
Kidding. Clearly we are the most reasonable people we know. Oh.
In the case of trauma, psychosis, addiction there is substantial evidence to indicate and support people are often not "in their right mind" and have trouble with reasoning, decision making, reality and perception.
But in the case of the WAS where they make definitive decisions to withdraw physically and emotionally, move out, file for and pursure D to its conclusion, I do not perceive an individual who is "not in their right mind."
Clearly, as you indicate, we can control our actions and reactions and hope to alter the dynamic. Often as not, the change we hope for does not occur or as noted by many others, the changes are perceived as not permanent or too little. But inevitably, we can and must feel better about ourselves in order to feel better about a partner and a relationship.
No D yet. (Recall - Nagasaki was May 22). No sign that WAW is going to file. Keeping fingers crossed.
Things are moving along in my sitch. The physical space has been reduced and has held steady for the past few weeks. Several baby steps in recent days indicate some movement of the tectonic plates but there has been no siginicant upheaval yet and so I am trying to not draw too many conclusions. The baby steps are: 1. WAW came over and I was doing laundry. She folded some of my clothes for me. This has not happened since bomb in '03. 2. WAW regularly makes me tea when I go over to her place to pick up D3. She seems disappointed when I decline. 3. WAW has been looking around the (fomerly our) house (where I now live) and making comments about things. This has not happened for a year. 4. WAW offered to give me a ride to the airport this weekend. Am heading off to Boston for a meeting. 5. D3 said this weekend "I want a baby sister" (go D3, I love daughters) to which WAW said "not right now, D3". 6. Usual Sunday evening pickup time - D3 said "Bye dada, mommy and I are going to play". WAW said "Dada is coming too, D3". I had not inidicated either way. So Sunday evening time together has become the routine now. We went out to our favorite restaurant to eat (I think WAW was missing it) and WAW vented a lot on work and her colleagues and I listened and validated. Things were good. 7. WAW told a mutual friend (who has been firmly on my side for the past couple of years) that she thinks that "this year will be better".
GAL - Have moved into higher gear on training for the marathon. We did 14 miles this weekend. It was hot and humid here and the last two miles were just run in the mind. Chicago marathon is run in cooler weather, so this period of training in the heat should stand us in good stead.
PMA has stayed steadily high. WAW's PMA has been quite good as well. I think that in these two years I have gone from: Year 1- bumbling, blubbering idiot to Year 2- slightly unhinged love-lorn imbecile to Year 3 - self-assured, confident, can-do spirited, validating, empathizing homo sapiens
I am happy where I am. I am filling my time usefully, am managing my own affairs well, have very few needs (hmmm... in most parts of my anatomy that is) and am able to view WAW as the one that is lost and myself in control. If I were to grade myself on my performance through this test in my life, I would have given myself a D for year 1, C for year 2 and a solid B for this starting year 3.
OK, now to address world hunger.....
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
I want to respond to the debate initiated by Bruce and dejavu but I will once I get caught up at work.
Let me record here something I have noticed which is very DB-relevant. I have, over the past couple of months, done one thing every weekend that amounts to a small change but it has kept the sitch moving in a steady fashion. They are all very small, but they seem to make my WAW notice: 1. Bought new clothes and have been using them. The colors are a bit bolder than I have worn in the past. 2. Bought my D3 some little things that were cute and unusual for me to buy her. 3. Trimmed hedges and made the lawn look good. 4. Upped the cleanliness of the house. 5. Bought a cool cell phone (my WAW thinks of me as set in my ways and somewhat of a curmudgeon). 6. Bought a cool new digital camera that has some nifty features. WAW thinks that I am not much a gadget person, so this is a change for me. 7. Fixed minor repairs around the house in timely fashion. She noticed. 8. Have left "Awakening at midlife" lying around in full view of W. She has been giving it curious glances. 9. Have started wearing work-out clothes when she comes. Have been working out and am better toned recently.
Small things, I am doing one thing every weekend, however small. I have also been asking for slight changes in D3's schedule saying I have this and that to do. Most times I tell her what I have to do but at least it gives her the impression that my life is full. I am going to do this every weekend. Some planned small purchase that makes a slight mark on W's psyche.
This weekend will be : one more house plant.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
The changes you observed and the physical ones you listed are great. I'd encourage you to do such things to see how they please you as well.
If there's one important lesson in all this mess for me, it is that my W fell in love with me when I was better as being really 'me', and out of love with me when I became very distracted by the outside. I'm noticing more attraction from her now that I'm doing things more for me again, re-discovering myself if you would.
Be sure those things are for you. If she gets pulled back to you b/c of changes you enjoy, then both of you will be happy, and the R will have much better odds to be longterm.
I agree w/Gabriel, everything looks positive for the time and becoming a complete individual is better for any R.
Sounds like you had a very nice weekend. I like the interchange w/d3 about a little sister. And your w didn't totally blow it off as being in impossibility.
I'm going to do just that, UD. But first I am going to answer Bruce's reply here! 
(He 'forgot' this comment later!)
