JV, I have read some of your sitch and I know it goes up and down (rollercoaster?). Just be careful about repeating things yourself, especially if they aren't working. I realize what worked for me may not work for everyone, but I believe the gentler and kinder we are the closer we can get to what we want.
It is normal to be suspicious. My H is on his day off today and he was home when I went home for lunch. He is usually gone by then. Now I know he is back with me and that's it, but I actually went into the bedroom and looked at the bed to see if anything was amiss. And I'm laughing at myself right now for that one. Old habits are hard to break. I'm wishing the best for you. PATIENCE
Quote: Last night when we were in bed, H said out of the blue, "I need for you to believe me that I did not go to Old Navy to see OW. I just wanted some new shirts, and I guess I just wasn't thinking." I thought that was kind of weird. He was talking about something that was brought up on Thursday or Friday I believe.
I just don't get it..have you asked him this. Why on earth would he shop at the same store where the woman he had an affair with works at? I would ask him this and let hin know it hurts you. Ask him how he would feel if you had an affair with a manager of your local grocery store but yet shopped there still. I think your husband would blow a gasket.
Last night there seemed to be some positives. But he knows it's time to butter you up for a day or two and then he can do what he wants. I have seen this from many of your posts that he has this tendency. Unless you are persistent I don't see him ever changing. He dfoesn't have to address his behavior anymore.....because he feels he is forgiven and all is forgoten. It will keep being like this unless you put a stop to it and let him know you won't tolerate it. Also unless you do speak up when things hurt you like the gift thing how will he ever honestly know how you feel. You tell him it is okay and that's what he hears. I noticed you said he told you last night that he would do what you wanted him to do. Was that as in leaving? And he was doing this while playing. Instead of seriously?
Hmmm--you could ask (attack?) him about it at the risk of making him feel defensive and wanting to get away from you. Or you could LET GO and let him do what he's going to do and you can go do what you want/need to do. It doesn't matter where he shops--he's a nut for telling you about it--but what difference does it really make in what is going on right now.
You seem closer to transitioning over to letting go of the rope--please don't get pulled back into being a victim and needing to confront everything. Asking him how he would feel if you had an A with the grocery store manager isn't going to get you any closer. He will never know how it feels unless it actually happens and I'm guessing he believes you would never do it. Maybe he needs to wonder a little about you. What was it about you that attracted him in the first place? Can you work on that? Do you want to be that person?
You can either make yourself crazy trying to second guess his every move or you can let go and get some peace. I think if we truly want to save our Ms we may have to do some things that might make others think we are crazy, like being nice to a man who has broken our hearts and try to understand his pain and guilt too. Otherwise, why would they hang around if we are just going to keep reminding them of what they did and how they hurt us? Now, if we don't want them around that is another thing. Sorry, Cally, I don't mean disrespect, I just don't agree. You might think I'm talking out my a$$ but that's ok. We are all just trying to help one another.
Hello, cally and molliew. Thanks again for your visits!
I never asked H why he just HAD to go to Old Navy. I have to agree with mollie on this one. Asking H why he did that or asking him how he would feel if I was the one doing this wouldn't get me any closer to my goals. BTW, mollie, H never told me he went -- I found out about it on my own when doing the laundry and noticing the new shirts from there. H said he was with (bf) at the time, and even though I like (bf), I don't trust him. If H was doing something he shouldn't be doing and (bf) knew about it, even though he has told H he envies what he has at home, I don't think (bf) would try to stop H or tell me anything.
When H said, "Whatever you decide to do, I'll do it," I think he was being sincere. His voice suggested to me that H was a bit afraid of what I might say. I'm not even really sure myself what I want to do so that's why I said nothing. I just know that I want to be taken seriously by H. I don't want to have to deliver an ultimatum because then I'm afraid I might not be ready to back it up just yet.
mollie, you're right about this friggin' rollercoaster! I am so nauseus !
Also, I DO need to be careful about not repeating the bad things myself -- the "old JV" habits of acting like I don't care if H seems to not care either. I DO NOT want to be "her" again .
Quote: ... Maybe he needs to wonder a little about you. What was it about you that attracted him in the first place? Can you work on that? Do you want to be that person?
Honestly, I don't know what specifically caught his eye. We met through mutual friends while going to a party one night. H said he was instantly attracted to me but never said specifically why (hmmm...my looks???). I, on the other hand, WAS NOT attracted to H at all ! He just wasn't my "type". I went for the clean-cut, all-American type of guys, and my H was far from that ! I could go on and on, but I won't ! I was looking the other way all the time, but H kept on pursuing. He NEVER gave up !
I guess it had to be us spending a LOT of time together doing things we both enjoyed back then. H has lost interest in doing those things and only seems to like gambling now. It's fun on occasion, but I don't enjoy doing it all the time when we have free time to ourselves. I have asked H for us to do other things, but we still always end up doing whatever will make him happy. If "moody H" saw me typing this, he would probably say, "Well we've done it YOUR way for the past 11 years!"......I always thought I was doing it OUR way, but......oh well. H never said anything.
Thanks again for your support and advice, ladies! I've got to go and tend to the kids now.
BTW, H just called and tonight is the final night the circus is in town. He talked about this yesterday and said he wanted to take the boys. He didn't ask if I wanted to go , but oh well. I let it go. But H DID just now ask me and he apologized for not asking me yesterday! How nice ! We're going to the circus!
Thanks for listening.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
Quote: It doesn't matter where he shops--he's a nut for telling you about it--but what difference does it really make in what is going on right now.
What difference does it make....the way I see it the man had an affair. he has a beautiful wife at home who takes care of his home and his children. Who also takes the best care of him as she can and tolerates a lot of CRAP from him. He agreed to stop talking to OW. Now agreed is the key word. If I am not mistaken that was JV's terms of staying with him is that he end it. Even after he agreed it was found out that he called OW even after he said he wouldn't. So to me it is a slap in the face for him to shop there if it brings him the chance to have contact with the OW when he is the one who agreed to end it.
Then you said.....
Quote: Asking him how he would feel if you had an A with the grocery store manager isn't going to get you any closer
Maybe not the greatest advice. But dang the way I see it is this way..he can gamble all hours of the night or day. Go where he wants, do what he wants. He can buy gifts for his sister when he can't for his wife. He can rip doors right off. He can tell JV that she is to blame for every ounce of the unhappiness he has had. Basically tell her she ruined his life. Tell her that he doesn't even want to have he just does it because he feels obligated. That is A LOT of very hurtful things to put someone else through. But let me mention one other thing the ultimate sin in marriage an affair and put her through that. In this case he just seems above himself. Like he can do whatever he wants and doesn't care about anyone but himself when it comes right down to it. So maybe it might be a good thing for JV I think to ask him even if it was just once how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. Let him even if for an instant try to walk one block in the heavy shoes she has been walking in. I Guess you are right and I don't get the butt kissing thing to a man that had an affair. It seems to be they would be the ones who would and should be doing all the making up. Yes I know in marriage it takes two to make things go wrong. But to commit the ultimate sin is just a cop out. I seen a really great show on Oprah on television that covered this topic. They had said what on earth have women become when they basically act like an affair is no big deal. Or worry constantly that they may run off with the other woman so they try to kiss butt and make nice. And just sit at home while they know they are out having sex with that other person. But be careful to greet them with a big kiss when they get home and be pleasant.They even said what is this teaching the future women of the world for those women who are raising daughters. They did have successful couples who did make it through an affair but let me tell you the men very much answered for what they did. The women did put demands on them and the men were willing to work on things and knew they had a lot to make up for. I don't mean to disrespect you either but it seems like that is what you are saying is make nice. let him do his thing even if it hurts you and takes time away from you.
JV I think that is smart to wait for an ultimatum until you know you can back it. I guess by backing you mean in your heart or financially? Because financially he can't walk away and not help you and the kid's. If you can forgive him that is great for what he has done. Forgiving is a beautiful thing. But don't continue to allow him to destroy your ego. That is what I worry about most with you. Be the old JV you use to be instead of the one he has created in you. The one who is scared to speak her mind or say what she needs. You have every right to have your needs met also. Just because your a stay at home mom doesn't mean you are any less valuable. You are doing one the hardest jobs in America today. Believe me I know I was SAHM for 15 years. But start working on your needs and be consistent with them. You have one really great thing from what I read and that is your husband is so open to communicate. That is really a great thing to have in marriage. So use it to your advantage. Tell him excatly what you want and need. Let him know that you will consider leaving and finding happiness if he can't fulfill your needs. BUT also ask him what he expects from you and what needs he has. Tell him it is not one sided but that you realize you have faults. Ask him what has made him so angry. Is it that he wants you out there working? There are some men out there that build up such resentments for the wife that stays at home. Because they feel they have the financial load completely on them. If he comments about it was almost that way then baby came. Let him know hey hubby god gave up this little miracle I can't be sorry for such a blessing from god because it was a blessing that he gave us. All of our children were a blessing from him. That ought to make him think. Maybe you could start going to counseling and get the ball rolling and be an example to him. Maybe he wouldn't be as fearful of it if you did. Maybe that counselor could give you great advice on what to do about his depression and eating disorder. Whatever you tell a counselor is confidential. Because his mental health plays a big part in this.
I am not trying to be negative. I can just feel your pain in your words some times. I feel that pain with going through something similar. So my hackles are up for you. I hope you have a great time at the circus and that he will be in a positive mood.
Hi! I think I am somewhat in a similar sitch. H said that he broke off with OW on the 28/5/05. And is kinda self-pitying for his loss. OW works in the same company, so they do still see each other. H is trying to get another job in a foreign country to be alone for awhile....
I think you have some positives in your sitch. And I think you should hang in there and see how things goes...
Cally, you have totally valid feelings and thoughts in your post. This is the bottom line for me:
Yes, my H did commit the ultimate sin and I was devastated by it. My first H did it too and left and married her. However, human beings make mistakes and they often feel guilt and shame over them. I wanted my H to hurt just as bad as I did. After all I took very good care of him and continually told him when he wasn't meeting my needs and what I wanted from him. And, just as Michelle says, my continuing to let him know how he was failing me pushed him away to the point that I figured he just didn't care about me anymore. Then he felt I didn't care anymore and was hurt by that. Neither of us talked about this part. We both just assumed neither of us loved the other anymore and decided to D.
H went looking for the comfort of someone else. He told me this over and over. He did not love OW, he was looking for comfort. He didn't want to sleep alone and he didn't want to be alone. And at first, I was angry he was looking for comfort when I had none. I was angry at how he was trying to find someone to make him feel better and I had nothing! How could he be so uncarrying and unfeeling after all I had done for him. And why is this happening to ME AGAIN! What a victim I was. I was an emotional wreck, lost weight, became very depressed, could barely function. Crying all the time! Damn him for doing this to me!
He never moved in with OW but did get his own place. He started staying out and drinking alot. I moved into a new place, and forced myself to start a new life. It was hard and until I found DB I didn't know how I was going to get through. But when I did read DR I saw myself in there. I began to examine my contributions to the failing of my M and decided with or without him, I didn't want to be that person anymore. I stopped obsessing over him and what was wrong with him--doesn't matter, I can't change it but I can take it or leave it--my choice. Family and friends told me I was better off without him, why would I want someone who treated me that way. Hey, that's just one side of the story--they haven't heard his side.
We were S for a year. We decided to start over, leave the past in the past, begin spending time together and see what happened. The things my H told me that always stuck in my mind: Relax; let it happen naturally, let me be comfortable and stop "being a freak". Being a freak was when I would call him crying and anxious looking for reassurance. He really wanted me to be more secure and confident and stop looking to him for reassurance and entertainment. Wanted me to take care of some of my own needs.
And I really wanted this too. It is much more peaceful for me if I'm only worrying about me. I really want to be a kinder, gentler person--more positive and happy--not so judgemental.
He moved back in with me once he was sure I could handle having him around and not clinging to him and watching his every move. He is a very social person and cannot come home from work and sit around. He has to be doing something and being with people. He rarely comes right home after work. Sometimes I just leave him a plate of dinner for when he gets home. I know this is how he is and I know he loves to have me there when he gets home to share his day with. I accept that--not everyone would, but that is my choice.
I no longer initiate the R talks where I tell him what he isn't doing. I let him know I appreciate him and he's my favorite person. Not with words but with actions. I write notes on the napkin of his breakfast sandwich and sometimes leave notes on the bathroom mirror. He doesn't say anything but I know he likes it, cuz I know him. Through this process I've come to know him better than I have in the 11 years I've been with him. And I know me better too.
Ok, this is getting too long now--but I won't be the victim anymore and I will take responsibility for my contributions to our M. I will forgive him and myself and move on. I can't go back and change anything and neither can he. I know he regrets some of what he has done and is happy we are back together. Me too, and that's good enough for me right now.
molly, what a great post. I needed to read that today, it made me see a different side of why our spouses or SO's seek others out. Another thing, you and H had a good basis for a R...that is why he came back. The OW was a sounding board and a quick fix...she made him feel good temporarily. But I think they will usually come back if they know the R was a good one...your H just wasn't in a good place and wanted comfort. Thanks for sharing that.
I understand and agree with both of you, cally and mollie. I feel like I am someplace in-between both views. I want my M to work, and I am willing to let H be who he is, but I also want my needs met -- the ones that "depend" on H to be fulfilled. Mainly, I want the love and consideration I feel H should have for me. Yes, I know he cares, but I feel like the majority of his actions show me no consideration, and that makes me question his true love for me. Does that make any sense?
I love my H, and I want to be with him, but even when I have told him how certain actions make me feel (the bad ones) and he continues to do them, I really begin to wonder why I'm even trying. Then I remind myself that H is also severely depressed and just can't think right, so how can I feel like giving up?
I also think about how H has told me in a roundabout way that I have ruined his life. I suppose he may have started feeling this way when I became pregnant with S9. I know it's all irrelevant now, but I feel like H has been harboring all this resentment for way too long (nearly 10 years), and what if he just can't ever let it go? I ask myself, "Do I want to live with that for the rest of my life if H can't forgive ME ?"
Ok, I was going to journal about yesterday, but H will be leaving for AZ later today and will be gone for 2 or 3 weeks, so I need to get busy on getting his things together for him since he asked me if I could. He should be on his way home right now from a service call.
I'll be back !
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
Yesterday.....hmmm.....I guess I could say that it was all over the map . So where to start?
Ok.....After H picked up the boys from school, he said he was going to several card rooms/casinos to fill out applications to be hired as a dealer....(sigh). Not what I want, but what can I say or do about it? H IS the breadwinner, and I have to respect that like I always have. So he left just before 2pm and said he would be back in time to take S9 to Tae Kwon Do at 6pm. After S9's class which lasts 1 hour, we would head out to see the Circus Chimera.
H got back at about 5:30pm and had on a different shirt. H said, "Look. I stopped off at Old Navy and bought myself a couple new tank tops. What do you think?".......OLD NAVY AGAIN !!!!......I swear I felt like I had a tennis ball stuck in my throat . H looked at me, showed me the Old Navy bag and said, "The receipt's in the bag so you can see that I went to the one here in town and not to the one in the mall."........I don't think I ever mentioned this -- we have an Old Navy here in town, OW works at the one in the next town which is only 10 minutes from us, and until yesterday, H has been going to the one where OW works. Geeeezzzzzz, is H FINALLY getting it??!! I have tried to tell him this I don't know how many times ("there IS an Old Navy HERE, you know?" -- I never said it angrily to H though ), and he NEVER listened before!......So H asked if I wanted to take a look at the receipt to see that he was telling the truth, and I said no. I REALLY did want to, but if I told H that, I know he probably would've become defensive and "moody".
Well, I was the one who was moody after knowing about his Old Navy trip. Not really moody, just quiet and distant trying to keep myself from crumbling due to the insecurity H's shopping trip brought upon me. H sensed it and said, "What's wrong? I told you I went to the one here. JV, I didn't go to the mall!" I said, "I know what you told me. I heard you." H said then what's the matter, and I told him I was just caught offguard by this, but I'll be alright. Then H said, "Hmm..........Maybe you should do what you said then." I knew he was referring to when I said "why don't we go our separate ways?..." the other day. This really irritated me ! The way he said it made me feel like he was telling me, "If you can't deal with this, then you should go." I know -- I'm probably ASSuming, but I didn't like it one bit.
I told H, "Maybe YOU should go along with what I said since you can't seem to give me one OUNCE of understanding." H looked at me and said, "I'm sorry, JV. Ok? I'm sorry. I won't ever go there again even though I went to the one here, but you know I used to go shopping there all the time before. S9, let's get going!"
They left then H called me a few minutes later. H said, "Look. I'm really sorry about going to Old Navy. I didn't think it would hurt you that I went to the one here, but if it does then I won't go anymore." I told H, "H, I can't tell you where and where not to shop. I know you like going there, and so do I sometimes. Just tell me next time before you do go so I know what to expect." H said, "Does it REALLY bother you that much that I go there? I told you I'm not going to the other one anymore. What is it? Does it just bring back bad thoughts about what happened?" I said, "Yes. It does. But if you want to go, it would help me if you told me you were going first. Call me up and say, "Hey! I'm going to Old Navy. Wanna come?" or "I'm just letting you know I'm going to Old Navy"." H said, "(sigh)...Alright. Ok. I'm sorry."......Now, the "sigh" worried me. Could H perceive me asking this of him as controlling? ....(sigh).....I am REALLY trying here! And I did thank and tell H how much I appreciated his upfront honesty about going there in the first place.
Welllll....I wasn't too proud of myself while H was gone because I DID look at his receipt . "Insecure JV" just caused herself more worries . Remember how I wrote H left the house before 2pm? Well, the time on the receipt was after 3pm. H told me he went to Old Navy right after he left the house....so I guess it takes him an HOUR to pick out a black and a white tank top?! Then since he returned home at 5:30pm, I guess he made it to San Pablo, Emeryville, Brooks, Pacheco then got home all in 2 1/2 hours???!!!......I hate saying this, but I do believe my H was lying to me . I didn't say a word about it though....(sigh).
So MIL gets here at 6:45pm to stay with the baby, and H, S5, and I head out to pick up S9. Then after getting him, we went to the circus. The kids had never been there before (too bad there weren't animals in this one -- oh well ), and they were really excited !
We get there, and by this time, I'm over my insecurities.....until a VERY well-endowed woman passes right in front of us. I kind of glance over at H and notice that HE'S noticing then quickly looks away . I know -- he's a man, and men look. It just really hurt, and I find myself in quiet distant mode again. But I did manage to have a nice time for the kids' sake. Even with someone else's little kids behind us hitting the back of our seats, playing with mine and S9's hair with their toy, and spilling a snow cone on S9's lap... ...Kids ! But you would think their parents would have done something more than just saying, "Stop it!" Geez....oh well!
All in all, we had a good time, and we thanked H for taking us out. H had a fun time, too .
As we were heading to the truck when it was over, I had some small discomfort in my chest. Heartburn maybe? I've never had anything like it before. I had leftover chicken that I barbecued the other night for dinner and some corn-on-the-cob. When we were at the circus, we all shared some popcorn then S9 and I shared a caramel apple. Whenever I would breathe in, my chest felt a bit tight.
H was starting to freak out a bit, but I told him I was alright. I just needed to sit down and relax. He asked me if I wanted to go to the hospital, but I said no, I'd be fine, and I was after a few moments.
We got home, and H got the kids into bed. We thanked MIL for staying with the baby then she left. I went into the room to change and H came in there. H was really acting scared and worried. I assured him I was ok and maybe it was just heartburn or something. I don't know since I've never experienced it before. H laid on his back on the bed and said while looking at the ceiling, "I really don't like the way that felt.....If something happened to you, I really don't know what I'd do. If something happened to you, I'd really be deep in it.....Don't get sick on me or worse, JV, please." I told H to stop worrying, and everything was going to be fine.
We went into the living room and watched some TV before heading to bed for the night. H gave me a little goodnight kiss but didn't initiate cuddling which I was hoping for, so I initiated it, and without hesitation, H scooted closer to me and held my hand.
This morning, H was telling me to just take it easy all day. I kept telling him I was fine and not to worry. H said, "Just please take it easy, alright?.....I'm sorry, JV. I'm so sorry for everything." I hugged him and told him I was fine, and that what happened last night was not his fault. It wasn't caused by anything he did. H didn't say anything, but I could feel he was close to crying . I reassured H some more then he left to go handle the service call an hour and a half away from us.
H called me when he was on his way home to see how I was doing then we talked about his day. He asked me to get his bags together for AZ, and I said I would.
When H got here, he took a shower then loaded the car. We talked a bit before he left. H wants me to go buy the boys new bikes. They'll love that ! H also said he wants me to get back to walking the treadmill everyday with which I agreed. I HAVE been slacking off lately . H said, "I'm not saying that to get on you about it. I'm saying it because ILY, JV." He told me to take it easy while he's gone and try not to get too stressed out about anything anymore. H said, "Leave the hair-loss to me. That's my job!"
H also said that when he gets back, he wants to make plans for us to take the kids to Disneyland. AAAANNND H said he is NOT going to drink for at least 60 days ! I know this is going to be so hard for him especially since (bf -- who likes drinking whenever he can) is going to be in AZ with him. But I am going to have faith in H . He hasn't been purging lately either .
H gave the kids hugs and kisses before he left, and he gave me a hug, too, but no kiss. He walked to the door, and I said, "Hey! Can I have a kiss goodbye?" H said, "Yeah, of course." I went to him and got a very nice one ! I told H to be careful then he left.
H just called about 30 minutes ago while stopping for gas. He asked again how I was feeling, and I told him fine, thank you. We chatted for a bit then H said he was going and told me "ILY". I told him "ILY, too."
Whew......I know, I know! I rule when it comes to long posts !
So....H will be gone for at least 2 weeks. I'll do like I have been and just give him lots of space while he's gone, but I think I will try to call him a couple times to let H know I'm thinking of him. If H is looking for more admiration and/or attention, I think I should try this but not overdo it either. When he gets home, and hopefully nothing negative will happen right before he does, I'll act like old times when I would greet H as he was walking through the door with the biggest cheese imaginable! I remember how those moments felt for both of us -- we LOVED them so much. The kisses and touching were so incredible !.....(sigh)....I really miss that.
Thanks for listening, and hopefully you all made it through this post ok .
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
But he knows it's time to butter you up for a day or two and then he can do what he wants. I have seen this from many of your posts that he has this tendency. Unless you are persistent I don't see him ever changing. He dfoesn't have to address his behavior anymore.....because he feels he is forgiven and all is forgoten. It will keep being like this unless you put a stop to it and let him know you won't tolerate it. Also unless you do speak up when things hurt you like the gift thing how will he ever honestly know how you feel. You tell him it is okay and that's what he hears. I noticed you said he told you last night that he would do what you wanted him to do. Was that as in leaving? 
And he was doing this while playing. Instead of seriously? 
!
! I could go on and on, but I won't 
! I was looking the other way all the time, but H kept on pursuing. He NEVER gave up 
, but oh well. I let it go. But H DID just now ask me and he apologized for not asking me yesterday! How nice 
he just does it because he feels obligated. That is A LOT of very hurtful things to put someone else through. But let me mention one other thing the ultimate sin in marriage an affair and put her through that. In this case he just seems above himself. Like he can do whatever he wants and doesn't care about anyone but himself when it comes right down to it. So maybe it might be a good thing for JV I think to ask him even if it was just once how he would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. Let him even if for an instant try to walk one block in the heavy shoes she has been walking in.
-- I never said it angrily to H though 
! I know this is going to be so hard for him especially since (bf -- who likes drinking whenever he can) is going to be in AZ with him. But I am going to have faith in H