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Hi, cally.

Thanks for the (((((((((hugs))))))))) . Right back at ya .

Looks like I was starting my post as you finished yours. I get sidetracked and have to stop from time to time .

I'm feeling a little better this morning but still a bit disoriented at the same time.

I agree. I have to keep GAL without him. The more I do, the better I will feel about myself.

About his cell phone, he brought it in last night, and this morning I saw that he left it on like he has been since post-bomb. His bill will be coming in about a week, but I've been doing very well not looking at it. I don't think I want to either.

The drinking -- yes, I know "moody" people tend to do that to self-medicate themselves. He says he does but doesn't feel like drinking all the time. So hopefully if I can keep up my PMA when he's got his, this may fade a little at a time.

Thanks again, cally. Your support means so very much.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

JV.....I was going to say the same thing. About him saying the right things because maybe he feels you are pulling away and have enough of the crap he is dishing out. So he plays nice says the right things then goes back to the same old way. I don't think he like you independent at all. Some men are that way. I guess that is why I think that would be a great 180 for you to be very independent and go out and just do things you love to do without him. Don't worry about him not wanting to do these things for now. Don't let it stop you. Just like the vacation he is talking about. I would find out the date that is good for him and make the reservations. If he don't go in the long run then just take the kid's and go yourself. I would start doing lots of things and just going out and having fun. Let him see you won't be held back by him anymore. But most of all do it for you and your sanity.

Just like Saturday if he don't go that's his loss. Just enjoy your day and try to smile as much as possible.

What will happen next to set me off?

Yesterday morning, H came into the living room with a shirt in his hand I hadn't seen before. H asked me, "What do you think of this shirt? XXXXXX (the business acquaintance H worked with over the weekend) gave it to me for going door to door." I said it looked nice even though I wasn't used to seeing H in a shirt like it. It wasn't his usual style.

Well, today I was hanging some of H's clothes in his closet when I saw that same shirt, and I lapsed back into "insecure JV" when I saw the brand label -- it was from Old Navy... ....remember? OW works there.

I began crying again and shaking nervously. I started thinking maybe when H got into town from Oregon the other day, he stopped to see OW, and that's how he got that shirt. I mean seriously, H has NEVER brought home a shirt that any friend just gave to him.

I think there is just TOO much of a coincidence there. Maybe H keeps telling me to leave him because he knows that he is doing something to hurt me.

I feel like such a doormat. I want an explanation. I feel like he is continuing to go about his "secret life" when he leaves the house and keeps me here because it's "cheaper to keep her".



JV

JV....Instead od worrying which will drive you crazy...could you contact this person who gave it to him and tell him how thoughtful it was. Or say something like husband liked the shirt so you were wondering where he got it. Or maybe take a trip to the GAP by you and see if they sell that shirt??

JV Or I would ask him about this. Holding it in and worrying will only make it worse. He did stray so should at least expect that you may question him from time to time. I mean how would he act if you did this to him?

I hope you get the answers you deserve?

Have you thought about if you do find out his affair is still on going? Would you be able to stay with him still? Is it best not knowing or do feel you want to know.

I am terrible about knowing. For me personally I wouldn't want to be in the dark. My ex husband cheated on me which is the reason we divorced. Well, there was other reasons to. But him cheating was at the top of the list. Men can be very good liars.

Well....more DID happen to push me over the edge.

I went to put a load of laundry into the washer and saw that there were wet clothes in it, so I put them into the dryer. I assumed they were the clothes that H took with him over the weekend; he usually puts his dirty laundry from such trips into the washer and many times forgets about putting them into the dryer.

When they were done drying and I began folding, I came across 2 more pair of boxers H never had before and 2 new shirts from where else? Right -- Old Navy . I KNOW there is NO way H got these from XXXXXX.

I wasn't mad. Just really hurt. Really hurt, and tired of all of this.

H came home shortly after my discovery with the boys and S5's friend. He took S9 out of class early to take them bowling. I couldn't look at him or even talk to him. H was talking to me but I don't even think he noticed I wasn't really paying attention.

A little bit later, I was putting more clothes away in our room when H came in there and said that they were leaving now. I didn't acknowledge him so he said, "Ok?" I said uh huh. H asked what's wrong now, ....... and I told him this wasn't the best time since there was somebody else here (S5's friend). H said no, just tell him, so I did.

I told H I'm tired of feeling like a friggin' doormat. He asked what I meant by that. I told him I'm tired of feeling like he is always keeping things from me. I feel like he's continuing to do what he wants when he sets foot out the door knowing that I'm sitting at home. I told H, "So....you win. You've been wishing for me to leave you, so you win. I'm done living like this with you."

H asked what brought all this on, so I showed him the stuff from Old Navy and the shirt that XXXXXX supposedly gave to him. He said that XXXXXX did give him that shirt, and yes, he did go to Old Navy but not to go see OW. He said he stopped there with (bf) before they left to Oregon.

H also said that he didn't feel or think he was treating me like a doormat. He added that he feels like one, too. I told H that he should figure out where to go. I told him to talk to (mutual friend) again to see if he could stay there.

I also told H I feel like he is only here because he's afraid to hurt me by telling me he wants to leave. H said, "What if I'm afraid of just leaving?" I said that, too. H said, "I'm still here because I thought it was right. I thought I could try to make myself want to be here." I told H then you probably shouldn't be here.

H asked, "What about selling the house and moving to AZ?" I said I didn't think that would be a good idea. Things are so not right, and I would hate to go there knowing that. I told H I would be so upset if we had moved all that way and things somehow got worse or never better. H said, "Well, how about just renting out the house and if things don't work out, we can come back, you move back into the house, and I'll have to find a place?"

I was shaking my head "no" and said, "You seem to be so concerned with "cashing in" on the house.....I don't want this kind of relationship anymore. I hate feeling like I'm in this alone. Like I'm in a loveless marriage." H said, "(sigh).....I'm sorry, JV. I've been trying."

I told H that maybe it's best that he go. H asked, "Is that the right thing to do?" I said I don't know. I just know this isn't right. H said, "But what about my family?" I said I don't know. I just feel like I have nothing to give him, like I can never make him feel happy again. H said he doesn't think he'll ever be happy no matter what happens.

H also said this was kind of weird timing. H said he was thinking earlier of going to a quiet spot like the library to write me a letter.

During the whole convo, H was rubbing my legs and hugging them and me from time to time. He rested his head in my lap a few times. I couldn't touch him.

I asked H to go now with the boys so I could check on the baby. I didn't need for them to see that I had been crying. Before he did, H said, "I need you to know and believe me that I did not go to Old Navy to see OW. That is so over, and I thought I made it clear. I swear on everything." I didn't say anything.

Towards the end, H asked, "Let me ask you something....Do you know if you still love me or not? Just tell me the truth." I hesitated for awhile, and H asked again. I told H yes, that I know I still do, but I'm ready to let him go. He didn't say anything after that but he gave me a few small kisses on the lips and around my face.

Then he said, "You know, if you really wanted to catch me in a lie, you should have said something like, "Hey, Old Navy is having a big sale this weekend, " to get me to say, "Really? Let's go. I haven't been there in a long time," then pointed out the shirts to me....I'm not saying I'm lying. I'm just saying you should've went about it a different way."...... ...... Then they left.

So here I am, and I actually feel very calm. Drained but calm.

I don't know what's going to happen when he gets back with the boys, but I am expecting him to leave. Maybe it IS for the best. BTW, when I said this in the convo with H, he said, "But what if I leave and I feel like it was the biggest mistake, and then I want to come back?" I think he wanted an answer from me to know if I would accept him back, but I just remained silent.

Thanks for listening to this fallen DBer.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

JV.......I think you did good and were able to get a lot off your chest. I think that is why you feel calm. It hurts so bad to hold this stuff in.

So his story is that before he went on his trip he went clothes shopping with his friend? Does he normally shop for himself? Why on earth would he shop at Old Navy if that is where the OW works? And then when he got to Oregon some guy he was working with there happened to buy him an Old Navy shirt from the Oregon Gap? Maybe ask his best friend if they went shopping together.


JV......((((((((((((hugs)))))))))) Try to keep your chin up. Maybe he needed to hear these things. Maybe this will let him see he needs to change. You are tired of being treated this way. And maybe most of all it may make him see that he needs help badly. I think he desperately needed to know that you loved him. To me that speaks volumes that he said that. But also he knows that even though you love him doesn't mean you will tolerate being a door mat.

There is a great post over on the sex starved marriage forum that was started by a poster named CSW. There are a lot of people on this board that give really good advice to people who have had an affair in their marriage. CSW is going trhough something similar. Maybe you could stop by there sometime.

Thank you again, cally. I will check out the thread you mentioned. ((((((((((HUGS))))))))))

I know some here may disagree with the way I handled the sitch earlier. It probably wasn't considered good DBing, but I do feel so much better letting go of it all and knowing that H knows exactly how I feel now.

After he took the kids bowling and mini-golfing, they came back and H made them all something to eat before taking S5's friend home. The baby was napping so I was laying on the couch for a moment. H came into the living room and laid down with me. He kissed my neck a few times, and I rubbed his back a bit.

A few moments later, H whispered, "I don't know what to do, JV........Do you want me to leave?" I was very hesitant to answer. I felt like saying yes and no. H asked again and said that if I did then he would. I let out a sigh and said, "No....I don't WANT you to leave." H said, "Do you want to keep feeling like a doormat?" I said, "NO, I don't WANT that either." Then H whispered, "Well I know this probably isn't the right time for this, but can we have please?".........Well, I'm almost ashamed to say that I couldn't refuse . It HAS been awhile since we last had , and what better way to release built-up stress ?

Afterwards, we went back into the living room, and I started helping S9 with his homework. I looked over at H and noticed he was looking at me then he asked, "Are you ok with what just happened?" I said yes, I was just fine.

H left to take S5's friend home then came back to take S9 to Tae Kwon Do. H called a few minutes after leaving again and said, "I wanted to let you know that after I drop S9 off, I'm going to (mutual friend)'s to talk to him, but I'll be on time to pick up S9 when he gets out, ok?" I said ok, thank you.

I figured he was going to talk to (mf) about moving in with him as I suggested.

H came back to the house earlier so I said I thought he was going to (mf)'s, and H said he wasn't home. Then he left to get S9.

When they got home, H took a shower and when he was done, he said he had an appointment at 8:30pm at the tattoo parlor a few streets away. H told me about the tats he wanted to get and asked what I thought about them. I told him they sounded cool. H said, "Alright. You can call me on my cell if you want to. I'll have it on me." Then he came over to me, put his forehead against mine, gave me an eskimo kiss then a small one on the lips.

H called me about 30 minutes after he left and said the tattoo guy was still working on the previous customer, so it would be about another 35 minutes until he would start on H, and H's tats would take about an hour and a half to do. H said, "I was going to come back home for a bit, but I figured I'd just wait. These guys are pretty cool in here." H told me to call him if I wanted to, and he would call me when he left there to see if I wanted him to stop for anything.

So........I said what I felt I had to say to H. I know he heard me, and I'm hoping he is taking me VERY seriously. Like I told H, I don't WANT him to leave, but I don't WANT to have this type of R any longer.

I'm still expecting H to talk to (mf) and leave. THIS expectation is the only kind I would want to be crushed. But I am preparing myself for H to leave this time so I can be ready for it.

Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

JV You said......

Quote:

---

A few moments later, H whispered, "I don't know what to do, JV........Do you want me to leave?" I was very hesitant to answer. I felt like saying yes and no. H asked again and said that if I did then he would. I let out a sigh and said, "No....I don't WANT you to leave." H said, "Do you want to keep feeling like a doormat?" I said, "NO, I don't WANT that either." Then H whispered, "Well I know this probably isn't the right time for this, but can we have please?".........Well, I'm almost ashamed to say that I couldn't refuse . It HAS been awhile since we last had , and what better way to release built-up stress ?

---

To an outsider looking in this sounds soooooooo manipulative of your husband. I don't want to be negative but really this is my opinion as an outsider reading what you wrote.

Him......Do you want me to leave?
Him Again.....Do you want me to leave if you do I will.
You...No I don't WANT you to leave.
Him....Do you want to keep feeling like a door mat?

Okay stop here. That was such a rude thing to say. It's almost like he was admitting he knows he treats you that way.

Then okay he says...do you want sex?
You.....yes

The way I look at it he thinks he can treat you anyway and can manipulate you back into his arms any time he wants no matter what he does and how he treats you. If I am right he knows you are close to not tolerating his behavior anymore. But he saw he can manipulate the situation and now he will act as if all is okay. Because if you think about it okay he knows your crying and distraught and hurting very much right now. His arrogant ass gets a tattoo and tells you how he thinks he will hang around there because they are cool people. He is out again and you are at home hurting. It just angers me because clearly his proirities aren't in check right now. He only thinks about himself.

JV -- Sorry all this is going on. I think you did really well with what sounds like a painful interaction.

Your h's questioning of you (want me to leave? want to keep feeling like a doormat?) was interesting to me. IMHO, he wasnt suggesting that you ARE a doormat...more that you are feeling like one -- there is a difference, right?

I also think that his "you could have tried to catch me in a lie..." was interesting as well -- because it showed (me, at least) that you weren't trying to trap him AND he wasn't trying to lie.

Isn't it possible that the two of you are both trying and scared and each pretty gun shy?

I'm not saying go into this blindly at all but is it all possible that h's desire to move to AZ might be a way for you both to feel as though you're starting over? I can't recall what the draw is for him there but if it's a lifestyle change (better job, less stress, something more in line with life goals) maybe consider it? Or at least consider what his desire to do that might mean in terms of where his head is at?

Not much help here but support

Sage

JV Here was an interesting web site......http://www.mentalhealth.com/book/p40-ma01.html