One question for you....and I'm going to preface this with, this probably won't come out the way I mean it, so this isn't condescending or judgemental....but, how long are you going to give this before you do bring things like this up?
Here's my reason for asking you that...it's possible your W doesn't realize she's not giving at all towards trying to actually save your M. She's making you do all the work. She's making YOU pay for your past mistakes. It is completely possible she's unaware of how she's truly behaving right now....sometimes you have to call people out on the carpet before they snap out of it. A C's office is often the safest place to do this....because they can mediate and make sure what you say isn't misunderstood....my H and I have used this (well ok, I've used this).
You do have every right to ask questions...asking questions doesn't mean your asking her for sex. The pace of your recovery in therapy is often going to be dictated by the risks you are willing to take...or not take at the time. So you do have control over setting some of the speed...if you don't feel it's the right time to broach these issues, don't...just keep in mind, you do have the right to ask questions...perhaps they will get your W thinking.
Quote: She says she may not ever want to be intimate again, and she may truly feel that way....right now. But I cannot impress upon you enough the impact the emotional connection can have on the physical one.
ID, I just want to second what GEL said. After my EA and our separation, my W said the very same thing. In fact, she made it abundantly clear that she wanted nothing more to do with me. She very bluntly told me that she was staying with me for D(then)7 and for the financial security, and that she would be gone when when D got out of high school.
At the time, I also bluntly told her, “OK, that gives me 11 years to change your mind.” We’re still not where I would like to be, but our R and our SL are better than they have ever been. I’ve more than proven myself to her and she has no intention of going anywhere. Don’t give up the ship.
Oh GEL God help me if I were to say or imply that she wasn't trying. I have been there done that. She always becomes incredibly defensive and tells me that I just expect her to change her feelings overnight and that I am impatient and that I just want sex. She goes on and on. She says that it takes her a very long time to forgive people. I don't really buy or understand this. She is certainly not perfect, and yet I am willing to forgive, forget and move on. Not her. She is a grudge holder.
I do think that her effort in this is about 50% and the C also realizes this. The C has told me that couples with much bigger issues than ours have overcome their odds because both parties really want the relationship to work. C was directly implying that my wife is not fully committed to doing so. Hopefully C will feret this out and make an issue of it in the next month or so. I really think this needs to happen for this to work.
W is definitely making me pay for my past mistakes and has made me feel like this since the whole thing started. It's this attitude along with the flat out rejection that have made me start to feel resentful over the last couple of months.
Thinking back, I have discussed our SR. Back when we first started C. W said she isn't like me and said that women aren't like men! She doesn't do anything alone and says that she doesn't really think about sex. My conclusion is she is LD or ND...
Ok...sounds to me that she's probably learned this behavior. No, women aren't like men....but we DO have sexual urges. Also, when she says it takes her a long time to forgive...that's a choice she makes. You can choose to forgive someone for something you feel they've done to you...now forgetting it, that can take some time...this is true. She needs to learn the difference...that, I feel IS something you can bring up in you C session....and if you feel it appropriate you can take her oooomph of the "all you want is sex" issue by saying .... you don't even want to think about sex right now with her....because YOU want to work on your R first
Now, I know you're resentful and angry...believe me what you are going through, these feelings....they are perfectly natural and to be expected. What YOU have to work at is trying to work through those feelings too....DON'T let that come out at her, that's fuel for her fire right now.
Feel free to bounce anything off me you wish...I promise to give you honest feedback ;-)
Wild, That sounds incredibly difficult. If W admitted to me that she was just staying for $ and kids, I would bail asap. Maybe I'M not as committed as I should be right now. I sure tried like hell when the s--- hit the fan. Lately I've just been feeling that I have a lot to offer, a lot of love to give and that I'm tired of feeling sad all the time.
GEL, Thanks! I really like the concept of forgiving someone for something as a choice that can be made right now and forgetting about it over time. I don't know how W would answer to this, but perhaps I will discuss it at our next session. I have mentioned in C that I wouldn't even consider sex with W right now because of the state of things. I don't think she even heard it.
I really do try to be happy around her. She has said that's what she wants to see, but who in the heck is going to be happy about this situation? Even C said I shouldn't feel happy right now. I am trying.
Thanks for all your support. Our next C session in Tues. I work this weekend so not much will happen. I will update next week...
I don't think anyone would tell you that you should "feel" happy about this situation, that would just be asking far too much of anyone in your situation....but acting "as if" does have it's merits. It can be a self-fulfilling prophecy...where you act "as if" until you aren't acting anymore and the situation is the way you want it to be.
It's hard to do I know, but it truly does have it's merits. And forgiveness IS a choice...just as holding a grudge IS a choice. I'll be interested to hear what you C says.
I have read your thread, and I have a couple of questions for you.
Are you positive that her affair is over?
Other than being mean about her sloppiness, have you abused her, or have you had an affair of any sort?
The reason I ask these questions is simply because I smell a dead pig in barnyard.
The whole grudge thing reeks of entitlement, and entitlement is almost always deeper rooted than it seems on the surface.
Also, your counselor doesn't determine when your marriage is over - just because they are frustrated with the lack of progress. That is for you and your wife to determine.
Just because your wife "agreed not to talk to her friend", doesn't mean that she didn't lie. If she had an inappropriate relationship, there is a very good possibility that she took it 'underground' upon discovery. Her actions are that of a wayward spouse. I hope that she isn't.
For your sake, and for the kids, you need to back off with the desperate behavior (needy/grabby/feely) immediately. Get yourself calm cool and collected, and snoop. Keep your mouth shut about what you find out. Your wife has a right to privacy, but not to secrecy inside of your marriage. Private is a fart in the bathroom, there is no place for secrets in a marriage.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
A computer keylogger and cellphone call records are a good place to start.
If you are the more computer savvy in the family, a quick check of history files is also a good place to look.
Where does she spend her time?
Please understand, I am not saying that she is still in the affair. I am saying that she doesn't readily plug into the 'typical' ssm pattern.
How did she act when the she claimed the affair was over?
If the builder was married, was his wife told of the involvement?
Need more info :-)
The more details you can give folks here about your situation, the better able to help they are.
As for her telling you the truth about her affair, you can bet your last dollar that you were NOT told the whole truth.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
NOP, Thinking about it all, I really think it was only an EA. When we talk, it is fairly apparent that this is the case. Contact was by cell phone and she has stopped that.
I really do think our issues go way back to before we were married and have largely resulted from me being HD and her LD. The discrepancy has lead to anger on my part, rejection from her, me hurting her and her withdrawal. It's amazing that our SL led to these things, but I really think this is the heart of the issue.
I printed and let her read the recent post from Shortchanged on How a HD husband feels with a LD wife, since his post really illustrates how I feel. She read it and said she understands.
The completely disheartening thing is that she said that she didn't think she would ever be able to make me happy. She didn't think she could meet such an expectation. I responded that I didn't think it should be something expected, or a chore or a duty, but something she should mutually want to share with me. I sense that we are miles apart here and really feel doomed in a way. I love my kids and I do love her, but how can I live the rest of my life this way. She knows that the current situation (no sex whatsoever) which has lasted the past year cannot continue. At the same time, she doesn't want pressure to change her feelings. That left me feeling in limbo. I felt I really needed some kind of time frame that things would either turn around, or we would part. We settled on next Spring. If things haven't improved by then, we agreed that they probably aren't going to. I just hate the way this all makes me feel. As Shortchanged notes in his post, it would be so easy to please someone like me and yet the idea of it seems so insurmountable to her. I am left feeling extremely depressed...
