Yes, it is valid for others to think and do things differently from me. It is not valid for them to be rude and disrespectful of me and my time.
You're talking about boundaries now, not expectations.
We each have expectations of the other that if something comes up and one of us can't make it, we will call and let the other person know.
Yet, if for some reason she doesn't call to let you know she needs to cancel, what happens with your feelings? Again, this isn't so much an 'expectation' as it is a courtesy.
That is my responsibility as their nurse to meet those expectations. In turn, I have expectations of them... I expected my H to live up to his responsibilities as a H. I expected him to keep the promises that he made to me. He in turn expected the same from me.
In a relationship, be it a nurse/patient' or 'wife/husband' relationship, there are certain expectations, yes, in that we expect a certain amount of reciprocation of some kind and in that, having the things we need met. There are also boundaries wherein we will not tolerate abuse and disrespect.
Understand the difference however between these universal expectations contrasted with the specific expectations that people post about: he didn't call yesterday, she should've been friendlier, she didn't say "blah, blah", he didn't do this or that. Things that have to do with projecting one's imagined fantasy of an idealized relationship, what they feel should be said, done and how by the other. Imagine if in the nurse/patient relationship, the expectations were more like "The nurse should've attended to me first", "The nurse should smiled more at me to put me at ease", "the nurse didn't call when she said she would".
Eliminating expectations is not the answer to marital problems. Openly communicating expectations to each other, keeping those expectations reasonable, being honest w/each other when expectations are not being met, and being courteous and respectful of one another are needed to keep a marriage together.
Nothing is "the" answer to relationship problems. You're glossing over the very real consequences I've posted stemming from expectations. Communicating expectations is not the answer either. Expectations, I repeat, are a form of control, they are an idealization of a fantasy, they send the message that the partner is not loved for themselves.
I still think it is reasonable to expect my H to call at some point in time, whether before or after, if he has to cancel plans.
Let's say that what is reasonable is for your husband to call as a courtesy, but what is not needed is for you to expect him to do so.
I'll explain that. Yes, it is a mature, reasonable act for someone, as a courtesy, to inform the other as to the change in plans to meet up or whatever. However, should they fail to do so, this should not cause for us an emotional reaction stemming from an unrealized expectation on our part. They may have perfectly valid reasons why they didn't notify us in time. Or maybe, that's just the way they are. Yes, if this is an habitual behavior (not calling when canceling), then it needs to be addressed because it's crossing a boundary, as that's about a disrespect issue for someone else's time.
A responsible, prudent, tactful person does not need for another to expect him or her to act within a certain parameter, they just will. You don't need to have another person in order to act responsibly, right? If we presume to 'expect' of them, we are stamping ourselves, our thinking, our ways, on top of them. Since this is not needed, where does it come from? A need for things to be done by others according to our vision of the world.
Don't you see the next step people get into with their expectations? The courtesy call is made, for example, but not received well because it doesn't meet the expectation of the receiver: it comes too late, it's not the acceptable media, it doesn't have the right words being said, the apology was non-existent or insufficient, etc and etc. There can always, always be something where the expectation was not met. And, expectations will usually always not be met.
I think it is reasonable to expect him to call if he says he will, or e-mail if he says he will, etc. However, if he doesn't call, e-mail, etc. then it is reasonable of me to feel disappointed but to give him the benefit of the doubt that there is a good reason why he couldn't. It is not reasonable of me to get angry, emotional, upset, etc. Thus my responsibility is for my reaction to the disappointment. His responsibility was to live up to his word.
People don't always live up to their word. It's up to you if you wish to feel disappointed over something like that, and think that's reasonable. You're giving yourself justification to feel bad.
While it's OK to feel bad, I can tell you that, in absence of getting disappointed, to have no emotional feeling about not getting an email or call when promised is much more liberating than it is to even have any sense of disappointment over that kind of event. Save your feeling bad for those events that truly earn it.
It's also good practice, as one releases expectations in one are of life, as other areas are similarly affected. So, when I went out on a date over the weekend and she was half an hour late, oh yes she was, it didn't affect me. It tried to, but I wouldn't let it. I felt my old self saying all sorts of things in my head for a minute that had to do with resentment about someone being late and not calling, and I had to shuck it. Whatever her reasons were for being late, I don't know. When she showed up, I was all smiles. She apologized for being late, I nodded my head to let her know I heard her, and moved on. I didn't ask why she was late, I didn't ask why she didn't call, I reasoned that she was in traffic and had her reasons and it's not fodder for a topic of contention.
We had an excellent time together and hopefully we'll see more of each other. Had any negativity taken root in me, disappointment that she didn't call, frustration that I had been sitting there for half an hour waiting, resentment that I was on time, she wasn't, and I could've left later than I did to arrive there, it might have influenced or tainted some of what I said or did or how I behaved that evening. Instead, I had the most excellent time and her starting off the evening by being late was forgotten until this post, and certainly was not the highlight of my night. In fact, I doubt the highlight of my night would've been reached had I shown any negativity. The highlight was beyond my... ahem... expectations ;-)
NY - I am preparing my rebuttal (spelling?). I see your view on certain points but other points I still have a differing opinion. However, I cannot seem to get my thoughts together. I've been up for almost 24 hours and I'm having difficulty getting my thoughts from my head to the post. (These 3am - 3pm are kicking my behind)
Imagine if in the nurse/patient relationship, the expectations were more like "The nurse should've attended to me first", "The nurse should smiled more at me to put me at ease", "the nurse didn't call when she said she would".
Welcome to my world, I don't have to imagine this. In certain peope these expectations do exist. I would classify these as unreasonable and idealistic.
But I'll get my thoughts together and have my rebuttal ready..........TJ
P.S I don't want you to think I am argueing with you. I enjoy being able to express differing ideas, thoughts, opinions and perspectives with others pleasantly and respectfully........
I just wanted to say that your posts have really helped me. For the longest time I had stopped posting and working in any systematic way on my M. In fact I was absolutely sure that I could not stand my H and wanted out.
However, the one thing that I kept doing was reading everyone's posts and yours in particular really helped me clarify what i wanted and in a way, inspired me to work on my M again. The feelings you express, the tensions you face are things I can really empathise with.
I havent had a chance to catch up this week on your situation but my prayers and good wishes are with you.
To begin with: Yes, I agree that when applying the principles of DBing it is absolutely necessary to eliminate expectations. As in a previous post of mine I said I was having difficulty with that. I've been trying and doing a pretty good job of it the last couple days. I was pleasantly surprised yesterday.......but that's another topic.
Anyway..............................In the context of life outside of DBing. Mr Webster defines expect as: 1: look forward 2: consider probable or one's due.
According to this definition one could argue that to expect something is to have the idea that one is due something. I think of this as an entitlement attitude. The "I deserve" attitude. Someone should do this for me because I deserve it. Or expecting a behavior or service from someone just because I think they should do it. These types of expectations are unreasonable and unfair and idealistic.
However there is more to expectations than just a simple definition of feeling one is due something.
Another definition is to look forward to something or to consider something is probable. There is nothing wrong with looking forward to something or considering that something will probably happen. We all look forward to things. Whether it's just the end of the work week or it is plans that we have made with someone. It is not at all controlling to expect to go out with someone Saturday night when the two people have made plans to go out. The expectation is not a controlling behavior. But if that date had to be broken, the reaction to that is what can be controlling.
For example, if my husband and I decide that we're going to eat dinner together at home and I'm going to prepare it. Well he has the expectation that there is going to be dinner when he gets here. I have the expectation that he is going to be here at the agreed upon time. Neither of us are trying to control the other by expecting what we agreed upon. But lets say my expectation is not met. My husband doesn't arrive at the agreed upon time, in fact, several hours go by and I haven't heard from him. Now, I have a choice. I can be disappointed and get upset or I can choose to be understanding, that there is a valid reason why he didn't make it. I could react in several different ways:
Controlling reaction #1 - When husband does get home or contacts me I can pick a fight, argue w/him, cry, throw a temper tantrum, make accusations, etc.
Controlling reaction #2 - I can keep dinner waiting on the stove, wait until he gets there to eat and then complain about how the food is ruined and I'm going to be up late cleaning up.
Controlling reaction #3 - I eat my dinner and the dog eats very well that night too. So husband finally gets there after being stuck in metro traffic in 90 degree weather w/no air conditioning and a dead cell phone. The one thing he was looking forward to was that steak dinner and now he is stuck w/a cold sandwich or cereal.
- OR - I can choose to not let the unmet expectation bother me and make the best of it. I can go ahead and eat my dinner - hey, it's just me, what a good opportunity to relax w/a nice steak dinner in front of the TV with total control of the remote. I can enjoy the me time. Then I can make him a plate to warm up when he gets home, clean up the kitchen and then go about my business until he makes it home. Then greet him warmly, allow him to get comfortable while I warm his plate up. After all he just had a long day with a horrendous commute home. That's using the opportunity to show him a loving and understanding wife.
So the expectation was looking forward to plans that husband and I had made. There's nothing controlling in that. But as I illustrated, my response to a change in those plans can be controlling or I can choose to be flexible and understanding and not let the unmet expectation bother me.
I most likely would have been expecting a phone call if he couldn't make it or would be late. I am expecting that phone call because based upon his past behaviors that is something he would probably do. (Remember, I'm still talking about a relationship that is not in a situation requiring DBing). Expecting it is not controlling him because he is still free to make the call or not. My reaction to not getting it can be. Again, I can choose to be upset and angry about it and make it known to him. Or I can choose to be understanding and realize that there are many valid reasons why he didn't call. The most obvious one, the cell phone is dead or out of service area.
So anticipating the phone call is not a controlling behavior, it is the reaction to that expectation not being met that can be controlling. Whether I choose to be upset about it or I choose to not be upset about it.
In fact, anticipating events or expecting something to happen is necessary to be prepared. The dinner example above - If in that example I hadn't been expecting a nice dinner at home w/my husband then I wouldn't have been prepared for it. You could argue that I have to prepare something for myself anyway, so I shouldn't have been expecting him to eat with me. Well true, but I wouldn't have been prepared to make a nice dinner for him, meaning something that he really likes. Planning a dinner and not expecting my husband to be there could have ended up in a dinner of sauer kraut and hot dogs. My husband detests sauer kraut so it wouldn't have been a nice dinner for him.
Using an example outside of personal relationships. I go to work and one of the patients that I am assigned to is confused and has been making attempts to get up by herself but is too weak to stand alone. Based upon her past behaviors I have the expectation that she will keep repeating this. That expectation is good because it keeps me on the alert. I know that I had better be keeping a close watch on her and providing as much supervision and diversional activities as I possibly can.
Nothing is "the" answer to relationship problems. You're glossing over the very real consequences I've posted stemming from expectations. Communicating expectations is not the answer either. Expectations, I repeat, are a form of control, they are an idealization of a fantasy, they send the message that the partner is not loved for themselves.
I didn't say that any one thing is an answer to relationship problems. But each person in a relationship has certain needs that have to be met for that relationship to thrive. It is expected that the husband will meet the wife's needs and the wife will meet the husband's needs. When those needs are met outside of the relationship, affairs happen.
The needs that I expect my husband to meet, where met by him at one time and those that he expects me to meet where also met by me at one time. That's why we ended up together in the first place. Both him and I expected that the other would continue to meet those needs through out the relationship. So meeting those needs became our expectations. Generally the expectations people have of their spouses are actions and behaviors that meet their needs in the relationship.
Having expectations of my husband is not about controlling him, it's about getting what I need out of the relationship. And the same is true for him. To put it like this it sounds very selfish. But the reality is for a person to thrive in a relationship they need to get certain things out of it. So by communicating those needs and expectations to each other, we can learn what makes the other person thrive. When one is thriving in a relationship they are much more willing and able to put the work into making the relationship successful. How can I know what meets my husbands needs and expectations if he doesn't communicate that to me and how can he know the same about me if I don't communicate it to him. The reality is we don't know. We can guess, we can assume, or we can try to figure it out. But we do not know for sure unless we openly communicate what our wants, needs, desires, and expectations are. I will say again, some expectations are completely unreasonable and yes they need to be eliminated. But there are many reasonable expectations that when met by the spouse can give the other person so much of what they need out of a relationship.
My husband does not have to meet my expectations for me to love him. In fact, those actions and behaviors that I anticipate from him and look forward to are actions and behaviors that make me feel loved by him. It makes me feel like, hey, you know what, I am important to him. And I know, through conversations with my husband, that the actions and behaviors he expects from me are those that make him feel loved and important.
I am not glossing over any consequences that you have posted. As I said in the beginning of this post, I agree that when one is in a situation in which they are DBing, it is absolutely necessary to eliminate expectations. However, I believe that reasonable expectations are a normal part of a healthy relationship. Reasonable expectations in a healthy relationship are actions and behaviors that one anticipates and looks forward to from their spouse that makes that one feel loved and important.
I will say it again expectations are not a form of control. I may anticipate or look forward or expect someone to do or not do something but I am not controlling them. That person has the freedom to meet that expectation or not meet it. It is how I react to that expectation being met or not met that can be controlling. (As I’ve illustrated in previous examples).
Wow!! That was quite a rebuttal. I'll need to read it closer later on. I know my H and I struggled with the same issues in our M.
How are things going with the job? The hours sound brutal but I assume you're working 3 days a week. I received 2 e-mails from recruiters today plus the two contacts last week. I hope that means the job market is turning around.
How's the rest of your GALing going? Are you still taking piano lessons?
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I can only tell you what works. It's up to you if you want to try it or not. For the record, what I'm posting isn't my opinion, it's based on reading and research. I also try not to get involved with intellectual discussions that aren't going to lead anywhere.
Now this is going to sound tough on you, and maybe it is, but do you think the tendency to argue, or the tendency to not be open to new information, new thinking, was perhaps one of the areas in which the marriage suffered as a consequence?
Quote: Now this is going to sound tough on you, and maybe it is, but do you think the tendency to argue, or the tendency to not be open to new information, new thinking, was perhaps one of the areas in which the marriage suffered as a consequence?
This is an unfair statement for you to make. You do not know enough about me to say that I have a tendency to argue or not be open to new information. The fact is that I read what you had to say, processed it and decided that I did not agree with all of it. That does not make me close-minded. The fact that I stated my opinion on what you posted does not make me argumentative.
As far as my marriage is concerned, my husband and I have often discussed differing ideas and information. Sometimes I saw things his way, sometimes he saw things my way and other times we just respected each other for our differing veiw points. There was no argueing and no hurt feelings.
I'll need to read it closer later on. I know my H and I struggled with the same issues in our M.