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2-4 years? If marriage was your W's goal, do you think she would have given you 2-4 years of trancendental sex after you got married? Don't you think that the sex would have dried up long before the 2-4 year mark? Something besides bait and switch is going on, CeMar.

Have you read Sex Starved Marriage? If you haven't, you should get ahold of a copy, pronto. SSM explains about what you percieve to be bait and switch and the LD partners aversion to sex is not personal.

Your posts indicate that you are willing to try any sexual position or any kinky technique to please your W. It sounds like you know your sex manuals backwards and forwards. A willingness to hear from her that you could be doing things outside your realm of possibility to turn her on could go a long way to rekindling that fire that you so fondly remember.

CeMar,

Have you asked her if she wants that oral sex?

I ask that simply because If you're giving her something she really doesn't want why are you doing that? You make it sound like just because you are willing to give her oral sex that she should want it. I mean seriously....have you asked her if she likes/wants that?

Your attitude and hostility is absolutely horrible CeMar. This is going to sound blunt and possibly mean but here's the truth as you come across to me on this BB....you have an air of entitlement about you like "I do this for you, so you SHOULD WANT to do this for me!!!! and if you don't WANT to freely do this for me then you are completely rejecting me and therefore you are worthless!"

I really don't say this to be mean to you, although I do get reallllly tired of you attitude.....this is really how you come across to me CeMar. Here's some more reality for you....if ANY man came across to me the way you are.....I WOULDN'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH HIM PERIOD! You make me feel as though unless she gives you absolutely everything you ask for that you won't be happy...she couldn't do some of the things on your list and you be content...she would have to do absolutely everything.....then my guess is, you'd find something else that wasn't good enough about her.

Can you imagine living with someone who viewed you as "not good enough"? What would that do to your self esteem? Your self-worth?....your motivation to even try?

I may get completely blasted off the board for being so blunt with you, but this is one woman's perspective of how YOU come across. I don't know you in a face-to-face manner and I can pick up on this CeMar....I repeat...how do you think you come across to your W?!

GEL

GEL,
I agree with you wholeheartedly!!

Ce, I don't buy that Mrs. Cemar's considerable libido went up in vapors over nothing. I agree with GEL that your attitude is adding to the problem and that you need to address your attitude before you try to move forward with sexual issues. Once you have addressed your attitude, you may have a clearer picture of what Mrs. CeMar is dealing with.

nightrunner:

Most nights I try NOT to initate anymore. I feel bad when I do initate and she is to tired. There is only so much humiliation a guy can take. So far I have had sex twice this year, both initiated by me. She has not initiated sex in over 8 years. Does she feel constant pressure to ML, no. I don't initiate that much anymore. I have gone for several months waiting for her to make ANY kind of move, sex, affection, whatever. It never happens. She pretty much is assexual. She has a big time problem with desire before arrousal. So if I stopped any initiation with her, it could go forever and she would be fine with that. Her life is about her children and her job, I just am not important. Afterall, sex and affection are for "Young" couples according to her. We are now in the "Mature" love group, or the people that don't get any.

CeMar...

Get the medical things fixed, the hypothyroid and the Perimenopause.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW THAT HITS. At 45 I was moderately horney daily. At 50 I was scaring myself by my needs and desires. I dont think a guy can even appreciate how the female system changes.

I trust you are of similar age. Have you noticed any age related issues? Can you "rise to the occaision" with ease as you did before? Or is your need to be desired by her a crisis within yourself?

Ce,
What is it you want from us on this BB? Everyone here has given you sound advice on how to move forward with your sitch. Most of us have agreed that you have a tough sitch. I give up, Ce. Nothing any of us will say to you is going to make any difference in your life. We have all done our share of complaining and venting here. All of us have reported some change in our sitches due to the changes we are making within ourselves. Everyone but you, Ce. You are still posting the same post you were almost a year ago when I joined the board. Don't you get tired of the same old blah, blah blah?

We now return this thread to doglover....

Well, summer vacation is coming up, and in the fall, and whole new group of Yale frat boys will take over CeMar's thread.

Actually...

I'm beginning to wonder if CeMar isn't a troll (and not in the live under the bridge kind of a way)....considering he absolutely NEVER changes and he keeps us all running in the same circle. He keeps us addressing the same thing, over and over and over again.....yet he DOES nothing. So as far as I can tell, he's getting his jollies by getting people frustrated with him, his stuborness and his inaction. I'm really beginning to wonder if he's just playing with all of us.

CeMar, "IF" you aren't just playing with all of us and you really do have such a problem in your marriage we here on the BB cannot help you, you won't let us. The only way out of your rut is counseling. If you choose not to use any of the tools people have given you, and you choose not to take the route of counseling/therapy....then you only have yourself to blame for your situation, because "IF" you don't do anything other than read books and don't take action you are in essence saying that you are ok with your situation because you aren't ACTIVELY DOING what it takes to make change happen.

GEL - signing off on CeMar...and returning this threat to it's original poster (sorry for the hijack....CeMar has a way of doing that.)