Good to see you back! You are a great presence, especially on this particular forum.
M, I think your changes in terms of dress, physical shape/health, and PMA will all help to pull him along eventually. Unfortunately, the WAS' depression is their personal task to face. My W is wrestling with the same, and hopefully will be successful. I truly appreciate your commitment to him, but it probably needs to be expressed by focusing on yourself and working in a disciplined, unrelenting manner to improve yourself, and through yourself, your R. It is that enhancement to the space between the two of you that will help entice H to grow with you.
I enjoyed watching S5 go thru his swimming lessons this early eve. W was sitting with a row of mothers when I arrived, but she smiled and acnowledged my arrival. I sat a few rows back and over on the bleachers, and was amazed at S5's improvements - he's like a little fish now. W looked back several times to comment and point s/t out to me. I stayed relaxed and positive and walked out with them after helping to towel him off after the class. W seemed to get guarded when a young woman walked by us while I was looking in that direction at S5's antics. So some hypervigilance about other women remains. Yet she made eye contact with me, and probably could see that I remained relaxed and focused on her as I said goodbye to her.
Another nice 10 min exchange over the phone later this eve as I called to say goodnight. Was able to compliment her assertiveness at work, and touch base in a friendly manner about the house and our furniture. Overall, communication is WAY up vs. during the past few years in the M.
Yes W is getting back into things she once did but at the same time there may be a part of her that will use that in the future to put you 2 doing it (running...lol) together.
You never know. But at least she is starting to do things that are nothing to do with being obsessed with work
Keep looking at that positives You are headed in the right direction.
Just wanted to check in and let you know that I found your new thread (I'm #12...I'm #12...or whatever! ).
Sounds like things are moving in the right direction for you and turning positive! Yay! Good 'tude on the D thing, too. It's not a done deal yet, and even if the papers get signed, it's still not "done"!
Gabriel: Thanks for the direction. Isn't amazing how the smallest things make you appreciate the world around you? A smile, polite exchange, eye contact, etc... I wonder if it is when these little things are noticed and appreciated that the WAS starts to get the hint that we are serious and committed to the marriage? I know that he was able to take me for granted because I was so completely devoted to him. I think he is starting to wonder how I am, what I'm doing... Last night he stopped by to pick up some personal stuff and drop S12 off at home. We didn't really talk about anything. I was cool and casual. I think once I really feel relaxed around him, we will get to the place we need to be and be able to start "dating." At least he has agreed to do that. I have a weird question. Have you always been so self-reflective and intuned with your relationship(s)? The reason I ask is that your advice seems to go much deeper than just something you were forced to learn because of your marital problems. Were you the communicator? I truly hope your wife will come to appreciate how patient and devoted you are. M
I was wondering if you feel like your W has some degree of MLC. I've been reading over in the Mlc forum and found a lot of descriptions tha fit my W. There is also some helpful stuff about how to handle the sitch as a LBS.
Forgot to mention last night that while on the phone w/me, S5 spilled a glass of milk all over the floor, and W barked at him "S5, you spilled crap all over the floor!" She has lungs made for an actor and her words can sound incredibly harsh (I know cause I was the recipient for many years). She abruptly got off the phone, so I hung up. S5 called me back within 2 min, tearful and asking why I hung up. I sensed that he wanted to keep talking with me in part b/c it was 'safer' with me on the line. W cusses like a sailor when angry, and I hope that her language/volume toward him isn't worse than what I heard. I think S5 is using me as safety net.
Today, I got the sense that W may be doing the same. She called me up to ask if I'd have S5 overnight Thur so she can go to a jazz musician show w/ a girlfriend. Maybe she realized she needs more frequent breaks from him?
Bulldogr, I don't think she's in a fullblown MLC. Though s/t like it is very possible. I do think many younger women who have been overcontrolled, especially by their own unfulfilled mothers, often find themselves asking "who am I?" far past their teens. Rightly so, I think W needs to answer part of this question. Tho my opinion is that its a bit chickensh!t to be doing so at the cost of a child and one's spouse. Yet, she's staying way more consistent and responsible than many WASs described on this BB, just needing to get her self work done.
M wrote:
Quote: Have you always been so self-reflective and intuned with your relationship(s)? The reason I ask is that your advice seems to go much deeper than just something you were forced to learn because of your marital problems.
I am very reflective, but I do need to be more spontaneously sharing and expressive. W experienced it as me being aloof or condescending. I've learned thru DBing to let her stuff be her stuff and to stay relaxed and confident, thus more expressive.
Quote: Were you the communicator?
I was better able to think of big picture than W, but we both had communication problems, escalating easily. Now I serve as the steady one, and let her express safely and confidently move her toward feeling understood, which has led her to de-escalate very quickly every time. I think this particular change has her very intrigued!
Quote: I truly hope your wife will come to appreciate how patient and devoted you are.
Actually Gabriel I think she already knows you are a good father or she wouldn't ask for so much of your imput. H rarely asks for mine.
If she didn't trust your parenting and didn't acknowledge your fatherhood role with S5, then she wouldn't be co-parenting with you.
I can understand her frustration as it's very scary being a single mother sometimes, feeling like you are responsible for the whole world and that no one will ever ask how your day has been.
I think it's also worse if there's only 1 child as with a first child, you aren't so experienced, you have a lot of expectations of your first born and if he stays an only child, he isn't off playing with his siblings, he's demanding 100% of your attention all the time.
I actually think it's easier with 4 than with 1 (having had 4 and now just caring for 1, I know) and my dd prefers it when her sisters are here.
I also understand your S5's fear. I think you did well not to get angry over her swearing at him.
I appreciate your ability to give some possibilities from her perspective. I see how stressed and worried she might be about being a 'single' parent. And I like how she's coming to me to coparent with her.
Yesterday I watched S5 for a bit longer, as W had committed herself to another eve meeting at work, and it made no sense for him to have to sit thru it with her when he could be enjoying himself with me. I made us a nice dinner after a visit to the library for a few movies and some books. S5 really seems to enjoy my reading to him - I think we both miss that nightly pasttime that we shared since his first several months of age.
At dropoff, W asked if I wanted to keep our kitchen table, noting "it looks so nice in here." She also asked if I wanted our dishware (we received the dishware as wedding gifts). She seemed hurt when I said no to both, especially about the dishes. I reversed myself in a brief email this am, noting my need to be financially frugal for now. W commented on a student she knows I'm doing research with, noting how 'insane' the student is, and insinuating that she's a tramp. I wanted to say, "That 'little floozy' just earned me another $1000 in summer support for me and S5!" but decided not to. I just noted that I know both her parents had their parental rights terminated in her early childhood, and imagined how she must have gone thru some rough stuff for that to have happened. W acted taken-aback at hearing that and didn't say anymore.
I'm been struggling with resentment toward W over the past 24 hrs. Last night, when she mentioned she and S5 were traveling to Cape Canaveral to see NASA, I didn't act "as-if" happy for them, merely noting that he would be missing his tball game on Sat (was hoping to go). This a.m. I was grumpy at pickup, and I washed/wiped off a layer of mousse from his hair that W had slathered on the little guy. She noticed and rushed to the kitchen. I did this 'cause her mousse jobs leave him looking like plastic man, and when it flaks off, it looks like he has a major case of dandruff. I know she'll take this as me picking on her, but I didn't point it out to her, she merely noticed. I tried to explain this in the same early email today.
Went to lift weights and run 3 miles late last night. Probably need to get to bed earlier to raise that PMA, and to adjust my behavior and thinking for today. I'm looking forward to IC at noon today - first time in 4 weeks.
You know, dude, you are allowed to be grumpy from time to time. It's okay. You are dealing with some pretty rough crap right now. Don't be so hard on yourself.
Gabe: Far be it for me to give advice since I am such a newbie, but I agree with Martha. You are entitled to get frustrated, resentful, angry, etc... I wonder if she doesn't take advantage of your conciliatory nature and act all put out when you disagree with her. You seem to be bending over backwards to accommadate her needs, what about your needs? Now, I understand the motivation. I find myself doing things and saying things I would not, but for the fact that I want my husband to see me in a positive light. Sometimes I wish I could hold a mirror up to him and say, "Pay attention to what you are doing! You can't always be worried about you and your needs. There are three other people in this family!" But I know it won't get me anywhere. So, I smile and take it until something really important happens and then I will take a stand. Sometimes it seems so unfair that we are the one's that behave in an honorable manner, but I guess the alternative would be to give up and I will NEVER do that. Not right now anyway. Keep doing whatever it takes, Gabriel. You are a credit to both men and women out there and in here suffering from a broken heart. M
W looked back several times to comment and point s/t out to me. I stayed relaxed and positive and walked out with them after helping to towel him off after the class. W seemed to get guarded when a young woman walked by us while I was looking in that direction at S5's antics. So some hypervigilance about other women remains. Yet she made eye contact with me, and probably could see that I remained relaxed and focused on her as I said goodbye to her. 