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TS

I'm glad I could be encouraging and supportive. I know I need it and I hope to be able to give back by being supportive to others.

I do agree that if your wife is dealing with depression there is nothing that you can do to alleviate the depression. That needs to be dealt with by her seeking professional help. And this is hard as I sometimes wonder if my H isn't also dealing with depression, but he will not seek help so there is nothing that I can do about it.
Nothing that is, but offer support and understanding.

However, TS, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and put my honest opinion out here. We all have done something to contribute to our marital problems and we all have areas of improvement when it comes to our R w/our spouses. As I'm reading your posts and the back forth between you and NY, I keep getting this sense that you feel like you have done nothing wrong. I felt like that in the beginning, I thought how could he do this to me, haven't I been loyal, committed and understanding? It took several months for me to see my contribution to the break down of our marriage. I still have a problem w/focusing blame on the OW but I'm starting to see things for what they really are (thanks to Mr. NY ). But it's hard to let go of it.

TS, I don't want to make you angry when I say this, but I think your trying very hard to justify that you are right and that you have done nothing wrong. Your hanging onto a lot of negativity. If you want it to work with your W, then you really have to let it go. I know you are hurting, but your wife needs your support right now. It seems a bit unfair, I know, but it's reality. If you want any chance of it working out, then you need to jump down from the "I did nothing wrong" throne and look at it as, we both made mistakes, how do we fix them. You don't have to identify your mistakes. You just need to listen to what it is your W tells you she had a problem with and then work with her to find a solution. And then she in turn does the same for you. But you may be the one doing all the work for awhile. You may have to make changes in yourself and not get any reciprocal changes in her for some time. That's were patience becomes a huge factor. (it's something I'm not very good at)

Well TS, I am learning that if we want our R to work, we need to put our feelings aside, be humble and admit our mistakes, and then be pro-active to make positive changes in ourselves. Our WAS need our support and understanding, anything less will just push them away.

I hope I haven't offended you in any way.
Keep trying....................................TJ

TessaJ,
No, no, you haven't offended me at all. We (WAS and myself) went to our MC yesterday and had an interesting session. I started by saying that I had gotten a chart from the book "After the Affair" (Spring), that lists Trust Enhancing Behaviors that we both need to work on. I suggest some trust enhancing behaviors, my WAS does the same and we list them on a chart we post in the bedroom. We check one box for each behavior we see in the other. I suggested "More hugs and kisses", "Tell me when you are proud of me and why", "Tell me when you think of Richard (OM) and what you are thinking of him" (not each and every thought), and others. She said she wanted me to listen to her more closely, look her in the eyes when she comes home and pay attention to what she is feeling, ask what is wrong if I (she) feels depressed or tired or worried. I had thought that I was doing it but apparently not enough. The MC seemed to think this was a good idea (improving my listening skills), so maybe there is something in what she is saying. I hate to say that because it makes that @*&%!!?!! NYSurvivor seem so smug; I can hear him laughing in triumph. Sometimes I wonder whose balls it was which were ripped from his body and stomped in the dust (please pardon my French). Anyway, yeah, I guess we both (my WAS and myself) have things to work on. Our MC gave us instructions for some exercises for "mirroring" (repeating back to the partner what the partner is saying without making any judgments in the voice), and the exercises were made up in the book "Getting the Love you Want" -- Harville Hendrix. Our MC seems to put a lot of value in the exercises; both my WAS and myself said they seemed kind of formulaic (repeating something without really believing it). The MC said that, yes, many people felt that way about them, but that learning a new skill is often like that.

Once again, thank you, thank you, thank you for your response and support.

I come off as a castrated smug? Oh, TS, I truly hope not. I pegged your wife's need just because that circumstance is so common and your description fit it to a T, so I thought it's probably applicable to your sitch. And it was, but there's no smug testosterone deprived laughter coming from me. Geez, I'm just happy it helped.

I ditto tessa's observation. It's not unusual for one partner to think everything's fine and normal with the relationship while the other strongly but silently disagrees. But that serves as a mark of how far away you two are in communicating with each other, and that's going to change. Both books you've mentioned, the Spring and Hendrix books, are great; it's cool that your MC is using them. I think the exercises in the Hendrix book should really serve to help bond the two of you.

Some time ago when it was explained to me by someone about how foreign a new behavior feels at first, they had me do this: clasp my hands together, intertwining the fingers, with one thumb on top of the other. Notice which thumb is on top. Now reverse the positions of the thumbs... and notice that it feels strange. But switch the positions back and forth a few times, and after a while it's not as strange feeling any more. And that's what it's like when you put on new behaviors.

New habits are formed by consciously repeating new behaviors, those bits and pieces that combine to form the new habit. Thought has to be given to it. After a while, they become ingrained and conscious thought to it need not be given.

I'm cautious about your request to know what she's thinking about the OM. Perhaps my concern is unfounded, yet it seems to me that she will probably think of him and miss him. After all, it is a loss to her and there were things she liked about him. Her thinking of him doesn't mean she wants to go running back to him, but there is a period of withdrawal she'll go through or is going through. More importantly, how do you plan on processing whatever information she yields as per your request, is a concern.

Hey TS,

Good to hear you making progress and figuring out where you both have issues to work on.

From what I've read, NY is neither smug nor would be laughing at you. He, and well and I, want happy ending for everyone, and try to give the best opinion that we can to reach that goal.

Remember, we are all in the same boat here, trying to ride out the roller coaster. Hmmm... Roller coaster on a boat.. interesting concept...

Take Care.

Got an Issue I Have to Work Out

My spouse and I have been working on her 10-year affair for about 6 weeks. My first reaction was shock, anger, pain. Since that time I think we have made some progress in rebuilding our marriage - going to a good MC, talking between ourselves about what the affair means to both of us, communicating to each other what we would like to see more of from the other partner. One thing that my spouse did during the affair that really broke trust with me was talking about our sexual problems with her lover, and not sharing the problems with me. Finding out this was almost as painful as imaging my spouse and her former lover in the physical sexual activity. I have resolved that my spouse and I must have no important secrets between us -- put up Walls and open Windows, from the description that Shirley Glass uses in her book "Not 'Just Friends'". We have been discussing her sharing her experiences with one of her female friends and after thinking about it and discussing it with her, decided that that was alright with me. Last week, she told she had already told one of her friends that we were in MC. When my spouse told me that, I wanted to tell her I thought that was a breaking of trust, because she had not talked about it with me beforehand; also that person she told is one of her more nosy friends who can let things slip out in open conversation without realizing what she is doing. This problem of mine might seem minor, compared to many of the more severe problems which come up in these pages. However, I am always looking for cracks in the trust we are starting to rebuild, and to me this is definitely a small one that can expand.

SO, what does anyone think?

Choose your battles wisely. Is that really a breaking of trust (sounds more like a privacy issue)? W can't be expected to live having to check everything with you first. If telling a nosy coworker about the MC was to you a breaking of trust, talk to her about how you feel in a non-accusatory manner, validating and understanding what she's thinking. Don't bring up old issues or grudges! If to her it wasn't a matter of breaking trust, accept that her viewpoint and rationale is just as valid as yours, even if you don't necessarily agree with her perspective.

The best resolution is one where neither partner agrees to do or not do something that makes them feel like they've "lost" or as if they're a child. Work towards that.

Good Post in SI

Is anyone interested in what goes on in other Infidelity sites? Here is a good one from SI:

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=53653.&AP=1

Are We Being Too Hard on the WS?

This posting has opinions from all sides; some say yes, most say most of us enter into marriage with unreasonable expectations (the mate is going to solve all our problems, our mate is going to have ESP and know just what to say and do to please us, etc.).

That was my situation; when we were first married I didn't think it was necessary to begin or continue working on communication if my W was not sharing things with me. After her affair, we are working on repairing trust and communication through some structures that our MC has provided, from the Hendrix book "Getting the Love you Want." Also (and this may or may not be true for anyone, in my case it is true) several posters experience that the WS will display and feel more guilt and remorse for her/himself than you could possibly imagine on your own. At first, that is what happened with us. My WS was almost as devastated as I was. She cried with me, said she was sorry she hurt me, said she still thought we had a good marriage and wanted to work to rebuild.

This particular post does not contain any of the expressions (M***F***ing Whore Skank Slut Homewrecking Trash) that some people think fill all of the posts at the SI site. In any case, I think the post has some good points and think others would find it useful (it's a little dated - April 28).

Getting the Love you Want - Hendrix

My WS and I started a communication exercise that Harville Hendrix has created in his book "Getting the Love You Want". It's interesting that my WS is the one who had the impetus to begin the exercise; she is the one who suggested we complete it. I am thinking hopefully that shows some interest on her part to work on restoring our relationship. The exercise consists of each partner making up a list of components they think are important in their relationship "We have a very good sex life", "We worship together", "We are financially secure", etc. The partners then rate the items and check them if one of the partners thinks the item needs to be worked on. I put down "We are sexually faithful". I marked it "1" (most important), and I marked it that we need to work on it. I am wondering how my WS is reacting to that, since we are going to post the list in our house and read it to each other every day. I guess I didn't want to mention the elephant in the living room, but it is there just the same. I don't expect any reply to this post, since no one has replied to this site for several weeks, but I just needed to write this down to clear my mind.

Well, it's been two months since I posted anything, I think. I have been following DMF and NYSURVIVOR. Sorry about the Dodgers (HAR, HAR, HAR!), although the way the Padres are going, who knows. NY, I am sorry for the finalized D; it seems you are moving on. You know I don't believe there is any future in your pursuing your WAS, so why should I press the point.

I went to my 40th (!?) HS reunion last week in MI. Some classmates were easy to recognize, and some were not, which I understand is common at reunions. I sat at table with a blonde goddess from our HS class whom I had fantasized about in HS but never had the nerve to approach (I never had the nerve in HS to approach anyone). I thought I noticed her looking at me with curiosity (?), interest (?), but was there with my WS and wasn't really interested at the time so didn't think anything about that. My WS and I had a nice time there; the town is a nice resort place in Northern MI. Now I am in the office fantasizing about the blonde; I even googled her and found a picture which I saved to my MY PICTURES. Before the bomb dropped, I wouldn't have thought about this, but it seems that my WS's infidelity has somehow, to me, legitimized by fantasizing about other women. My reconnecting with my WS is going very well; we are seeing an MC whom we both like and he says we are making progress. I still have the doubts about my WS's fidelity; after all, I had thought we had no secrets before the bomb dropped. I am still going forward on faith. I think I will just see where this fantasizing goes. If it doesn't go away after a few weeks, in the interest of rebuilding trust, I guess I will bring it up in counseling. Anyway, I am just thinking aloud here. I am not expecting any response from the board, but I need to clear my mind.