I think the BIGGEST key to not getting baited is to see it for what it really is. BAIT. Countless times I've fell into conversations because I thought he really wanted to talk about our R or because he would throw something hurtful out there. Once you realize it is a test of sorts and that he is just throwing some bait out there to see how you'd react, it is easier to resist.
My H did it heavily at first and still does it to some extent. I've heard lots of comments lately about how he needs a new bed, about how he has to get his own place and move out of his cousins, heck every time he refers to his cousins house as "home" I want to explode.
Instead, I've learned to see it as bait and to just continue with whatever I was speaking about ignoring the fact that he even said anything at all.
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Generally, you do not want to instigate OR talks when you are at the last resort, when you come off begging and pleading. And you don't want to get baited, if your partner is trying to take things on a downward spin.
If you are in a place where you think you can talk about improvement in the relationship....give it a shot.
Example......My partner and I had been sailing along very smoothly for a good 6 months or more, and then had a blowout. We recently discussed our pursuer/distancer issues......and it is not like this thing started out the right way. But he was able to come up with an idea that when we are in the thick of the stress, gives me comfort AND him space.
He had to have space first to get to this point.
If one of your issues for your W is that you never initiate these things and never try to improve the relatonship from that angle......it may be a sign of love for her when you try.
Test the waters. If it works....great. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't mean it's over......it's just good information for the future.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Quote: Alright you two....now it's time for a *VERY* serious question - what if having OR talks is a 180 for me?
For much of my M, I resisted R talks - or at least made them difficult by defending myself and being "logical" against her emotions and feelings.
So - for *me* - the willingness to have an R talk IS a 180 I wish to emphasize - not only for the knowledge I gain about her inner emotional turmoil and what she's "thinking" - but also for mysef as this is a "change" I'm making for myself.
Does that make sense? IOW, for me, having R talks - IS a change I'm making for myself.
A further benefit for me in having R talks when she brings them up, is that it allows me to demonstrate to her and to myself that the old reasoning self is dead and replaced by the new/old "understanding" person (James - do note that I've changed "Always Agree" "Always Understand!). So, by having R talks, I can "act" a change that I've made for me that she *likes*.
So.....thoughts? Is it still in my best interest to avoid R talks when she brings them up - or, in my case, since they represent "change" on several fronts/active and liked 180s - ought I embrace the chances to have these talks?
FWIW, I have not instigated any R talks for several months now - merely waiting until she brings them up and cheerfully and readily going with and proving to *myself* that I can listen and be understanding....
Thoughts from you two are very much appreciated - along with everyone else.
Same thing for me TJ. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place because that is the main 180 I am doing. I try not to talk about R, but "us" issues that do not seem to frustrate/anger W and I keep them short and sweet. I still am trying to find the right words to AA and always understand. One of my biggest problems is word choice. I just ordered the 5 languages of love book, and Men are from Mars.. So I hope they help as much as DR.
ok - this is a concept I'm not very clear on. Are you saying when you're doing the LRT you should avoid ALL relationship talks? I've been (mostly) doing the LRT on my H for about 2 months and a couple of nights ago he said to me "we never talk about our R". So I did - telling him I didn't want the divorce, but I wouldn't stop him if that's what he needed to do to be happy.
And then he told me he's having an affair.
He got me good with that one! Talk about a way to shoot your spouse down in flames.
So in future should I try to avoid any R talks?
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him discover it in himself. Galileo Galilei
Hi flip....I'm sorry to hear about his little anouncement....
there are no always and nevers....
When you're in the LRT, it means don't pursue....because you've been pursuing and it is not only not working, it's making things worse. OR talks in that light, tend to do the same thing. Often, the spouse will try to trigger that reaction, by 'baiting' you into the talk and into the reaction to convince themselves your changes haven't stuck.
How did you react to his news?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
I was relatively calm! Didn't shout or cry at first. I told him I wasn't surprised (which is true).
Bad DBing - I told him I was disappointed in him. I told him he was acting like someone who had no idea what marriage is about. I said I thought we had discussed and understood that you solve your marriage prolems within the M and not by going to someone else.
Good DBing - I validated some of his feelings. When I finally started to cry (when I told him I missed his D8, my SD) I left the room. I didn't ask very many Qs about the OW. I generally skirted around D talk and didn't agree to anything. The next day, before he left abroad, I was pleasant and didn't bring up the R or affair at all.
I suppose the fact is, whenever we talk about the R, it's hard and I find out bad things, but I'm always left feeling I'm glad I know - knowledge is a useful thing. I've always really struggled with the whole concept of how to not give the indication that you want the D, but also not pressurise them to stay and show you're getting on with your life.
Should I just pretend I'm all for the D, but do no work for it? Right now, H has done nothing really to further the D, I believe he's hoping I'll take charge and do it all. So I'm just sitting tight. Under UK law he can';t file for 2 years, so he has to persuade me to file. he's said he's in no hurry, so I'm going to take him at his word!
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him discover it in himself. Galileo Galilei
Do nothing but the GET A LIFE....go on with your life....
be pleasant...be yourself make yourself happy don't do anything for the divorce DO NOT PURSUE him be less available be less predictable don't explain or justify yourself don't date, but do let him wonder
again...don't explain or justify yourself... don't keep doing everything for him (laundry, etc), but don't explain or justify yourself
if you find yourself emotional and feel like breaking down.........and you will...........have a backup plan..........don't let him see you sweat........have your gameface on!
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
Thanks! I'll write that down and keep it with me at all times.
But if he ever comes right out and asks me if I want to work on the marriage, what should I say? Should I lie and say no, or say yes and accept him going colder? Or does it depend on me interpreting the reasons for him asking?
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him discover it in himself. Galileo Galilei
