Well, as you can see I changed my display name. More on that in a minute. Last night when I got home, I had some flowers for her. All day yesterday, when reading this forum, I could not help but think- How would I feel if we were not married anymore? As bad as I feel sometimes when we are not having enough sex (in my opinion), I would feel much worse not being around the woman I love. So, what can I do to try and make things better and not depend on the sex so much for me to feel the closeness I want with her. I got home, and she loved the flowers and we ate dinner. As soon as the kids were done, she started a conversation about the book (SSM). She said that she was not done with it yet, but had been reading it yesterday and found some things that stood out to her. We had a good discussion and since she had started the conversation, I was able to talk to her about some things and she heard me, instead of feeling like I had brought it up again and was bugging her....again. I should be receiving the UL book today and look forward to reading it. I would like to be able to manage my feelings better when I start feeling hurt or slighted by something she says. When I feel that way, I throw up my defense which is becoming distant and pissed off, which causes her to lash out with her hurtful words (which is her defense). If I could break that cycle before it begins, I think we will get somewhere.
I changed my display name just in case my wife decides to investigate this website. She knows of it, but not that i have been posting here. I don't think it would be a disaster for her to see what I have written, but I don't want anything to throw us off the track right now. So I am now nightrunner (I usually have to do my running at night, so I have time to do other stuff during the day). Thanks again to all for the advice.
God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind......so there.
I would like to be able to manage my feelings better when I start feeling hurt or slighted by something she says. When I feel that way, I throw up my defense which is becoming distant and pissed off, which causes her to lash out with her hurtful words (which is her defense). If I could break that cycle before it begins, I think we will get somewhere.
Excellent!!!
I'm happy that you are taking an upbeat approach to this with the flowers and stuff. SSM is a good icebreaker to see how willing she is to participate. If you can turn the repair itself into something to connect over - by reading together and talking about things in a nice way, then that's great. If she doesn't want to do that, then simply respect that decision...it means nothing other than the fact that she doesn't want to discuss it with you...and that's fine (to a degree).
Part of PM and hopefully UL is a concept called "differentiation" which has to do with the stuff you are already striving for...keeping cool, fearlessly disclosing yourself, emotional independence, knowing and defending your self (values, preferences, etc). A lot of us misinterpreted PM (at least I did) and seemed to become isolationist/autonomous without fulling recognizing how our own marital systems worked. That's where the counseling helped.
You mentioned some "cause and effect" behaviors in your M. It's great when you recognize how each of you respond and that type of thinking is what you need to be focused on. Ignore the bedroom for now...have discussions about the stuff you are saying here. Talk with your W about how interesting it is that you respond with defensiveness and she responds with (fill in the blank). Check out Gottman who is the expert on interpersonal communication. I read Relationship Cure by Gottman and it, along with PM were the only 2 that helped. I might check out UL but I'm just not into self-help these days....and that's a good thing.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: I should be receiving the UL book today and look forward to reading it. I would like to be able to manage my feelings better when I start feeling hurt or slighted by something she says. When I feel that way, I throw up my defense which is becoming distant and pissed off, which causes her to lash out with her hurtful words (which is her defense). If I could break that cycle before it begins, I think we will get somewhere.
I think this is what the book helps with the most. You pick one of those times when she says something that really feels like she's socked you in the gut and you "unpack" it (to use one of those workshop buzzwords). I would do this alone, and I would write it out-- the book gives 15 questions to ask about the event/feeling. You're looking for that place where the fishhook is stuck in you. Then you trace the line back to the pole and see who's holding the pole. It's not her; the initial wound happened before you knew her.
The defensive thing is maddening. In the right (read: wrong) mood, my bf becomes defensive faster than anyone I've ever known. I resist becoming defensive in response to him... at first... then I cave, too. Usually the convos are really about nothing... maybe about the way I asked him about something. But they "hook" me and make me furious for hours. I know my father related this way, too. You just couldn't get next to him. If you tried to get next to him (metaphorically speaking), he would just turn to confront you... over the smallest things. Talking to him was exhausting... just like talking to my bf, when he's in this mood.
I'm curious... what did she find helpful about the SSM book?
P.S. PM is Passionate Marriage, a book by Schnarch. Go to his website www.passionatemarriage.com for an overview.
One of the main things was when the book mentioned that some LD people who said they did not think about sex actually did have short, fleeting moments that they just dismissed. My wife said that she did have these, but instead of acting on them, she just ignored them because she was either busy, had a headache ,or just being lazy. She also learned a little more about the fact that I was just not wanting her to spread her legs, but wanted more closeness. She is not done with it yet, and I hope she gets more out of it. I recognize that these are baby steps, and it will take much longer than the three months of great marriage in a 12 year marriage. I think my biggest thing to learn is patience, but man, that is not easy for me. I am a fixer, and when I see a problem, I go right for the solution. I need to mellow out more.
God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind......so there.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
You guys who say "when I see something that needs 'fixing,' I like to go right for the solution," need to get a new idea of what a "solution" might be. Going right to sept 10 of a 10-step list of tasks might not be going for the "solution." The PROCESS might be the solution.
Let's say, for example, you and your W decide to learn to dance in order to be closer. What if you, as a fix-it person, could just wrinkle your nose and turn you and W into Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers? Which would bring you closer: a) suddenly knowing how to dance beautifully, or b) taking 10 weeks of lessons together.
In fixing some problems, process is everything. The end, when you get there, doesn't even matter anymore, because you've learned and grown so much from the process itself.
Maybe you don't have to become more mellow. Maybe you can just learn to focus on each step and see each step as a piece of the solution... like building a cathedral thoughtfully instead of just slapping those bricks down, one on top of the other.
Well.....had a big step tonight. Had a big discussion over dinner (the kids went over and ate at their friends house). She was able to get some stuff off of her chest about why she treats me the way she does. Past experiences before we were married left her with a big wall that has been there for our entire marriage. Maybe now she can work on knocking it down. Step one.
God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind......so there.
I am stoked! But also not wanting to get too excited. I still have to become more patient and not expect everything at once. I got UL yesterday and will start reading it today. Hopefully, it will help me figure out how to squash those feelings I get, when she says something or doesn't do someting, that really have nothing to do with her, that make my mind go off on some trip about what might happen, or how she might be feeling, without really knowing. But, again, I am very pleased with last nights discussion.
God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind......so there.
