Why can't the people we love work on this aspect of the relationship without making us feel as if something is wrong with us.
That "feeling" you get is a result of the way you two communicate. For us, the books did nothing but counseling did wonders in this area. We now mutually acknowledge that we are different without judgment. It may take some counseling to challenge your W's belief that "being horny is a bad thing" so she can accept you for the fact that you have a higher drive. You might need to be challenged to believe that "having no drive" is not a disease to be cured.
As you work through this, and start fixing everything else that's wrong, the true extent of her libido problem will reveal itself. Once this happened to us, we were able to have a much happier marriage with a lot more sex even though my W still doesn't feel desire until 5 minutes into foreplay. We just acknowledged that "this is our system" and figured out ways to work with it instead of fighting it.
If you live in Dallas, you might want to look at the counseling center at Unity church off 75 & Meadow Rd. I'm have no experience with them but both of the head counsellors there have been certified with the Schnarch crucible techniques above and beyond the minimum requirements. BTW. David Schnarch wrote Passionate Marriage...a highly recommended book on this site. Reading it will alleviate a lot of your anxiety.
good luck.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
What are some things that would wake her up to what you are saying?
It sounds as if she has just become too comfy with her life. What would get her attention?
The obvious answer is "divorce", but surely there are other ways to underscore what you are trying to tell her without taking such a drastic step. Sometimes people need to see ACTION and not words. I know my husband hears me say words all the time, but when I back it up with an action, suddenly it's very clear to him. Crazy.
Good luck and my only other advice is to say your piece EARLY and OFTEN. Every time you feel resentment creeping up on you wrt your sex life, bring it up and say it to her. Yeah it'll ruin the moment and you'll feel like a heel, but true progress will only happen when the two of you are able to haul yourselves out of your ruts. It sounds like she's really entrenched in hers, so you may need to give her an extra 'boost'.
I believe I can understand where your W may be coming from on the "how you talk to her part". Here's why....I grew up in a home w/a Dad who constantly sounded very condescending to both my mother and I. Our opinions didn't matter, his way was the only way to do things...he was the authority on EVERYTHING. It wasn't WHAT he said to us, it was HOW he said it....it was that tone of voice, that "my GOD can you really be that stupid!", or very patronizing, scolding type of a voice. Now, please don't think I'm saying this is what you are doing....but now, if my H uses a similar tone of voice w/me I can turn into a "B" instantly!!! My hackles go up and I'm ready to attack!!! Which is not my normal persona LOL.
I've seen my mother endure this behavior for well, my entire life. I've even brought this behavior to my father's attention...but he doesn't change it...much, for short periods of time he will, when I bring it to his attention...but it's never permanent.
So....IF you were doing anything similar to this, it's hurtful, degrading, demeaning etc. It might take her some time to believe that the change in your behavior is a permanent change.
I've even experienced my LDH talking to me in a similar manner once in awhile...naturally this gets my hackles up and between my being angry at being talked down to and him not understanding why I blew up at something he said...we could go round and round. I have now since explained to him that I have a bit of a Pavlovian response to a certain "tone" of voice that he sometimes would use w/me and explained why I would sometimes react in a knee-jerk reaction to him. He is MUCH better now about being aware and tries very hard not to speak to me in a patronizing manner.
I also noticed that your W just doesn't seem to really understand that there is a BIG problem (at least in your POV) w/your M. She thinks everything is hunky dory....so did my H, he was blind to the problems too....I tried EVERYTHING to get through to him....but you know what worked? Telling him that if we didn't seek counseling we wouldn't be having another anniversary...and meaning it.
He even stated in our session just last week that when I said that to him....he knew we must have a BIG problem and began to really take me seriously. Have you at this point set any boundaries w/consequences...or have you tried talking to her but really haven't set any consequences yet which might provoke her to take you seriously and really look at your R w/you?
Can you give us some examples of approaches have you taken? When you've tried talking to her what have you said...just some examples.
Sorry, this was so long-winded...had a bunch to throw in there
Damn, defending CeMar is getting to be like a second job for me
Quote:
If you really believe that MOST of the LD problem is physical (and I believe you are referring to the LDW as you usually do) you HIGHLY underestimate a woman's mind/emotions.
I AGREE with CeMar. I need to preface this, that my extensive research is based on a statistical sample of 1. It can’t be all in the mind, now I’m sure that in some cases it is strictly physical and in some it is strictly mental. I have become convinced that for many people on here the answer has a large predominately physical aspect to it. Many of the relationship issues come from the resentment built up by the physical aspects of things.
Many of the ‘symptoms’, like desire after arousal, could be linked to physical problems. For my sitch, I have been asking, (begging, threatening an ultimatum?) for my W to go see a doctor and have specific things check. I think her problem truly believing that there is a problem, and specifically asking the doctor to see if there is a medical solution.
The way I look at it, if you have a migraine headache and go see the doctor, if you don’t say Doctor, I’m here because of my headache don’t expect him to relieve your pain, or even realize you have a headache. If they don’t find the headache it doesn’t mean that it isn’t there. Furthermore if you still have a headache a week later, if you don’t call the doctor and tell them about it, don’t expect it to get better with more time.
I do understand what you are saying. I still stand behind my statement to CeMar however...basically because....he's not even trying to win over her mind. And of course I make that statement based on the limited information and writing that he does here.
He could very well be trying things...but we here on the BB have no idea what he's tried or not tried. I truly do believe HE at the very least underestimates the power winning over a person's mind, especially a woman's mind (because I can't speak from the male perspective LOL.)
I have had guys tell me (sorry to sound conceited here) how gorgeous I am, or what a great body I have etc....and don't get me wrong, it's certainly nice to know these things....but that's only part of the sexual equation. A woman's mind is a complicated thing (yes, I admit that).
I can be complimented up one side and down the other about how I look...but if I'm treated like I'm some sort of an idiot, or like I'm just eye-candy...but don't listen to her, she doesn't know what she's talking about. You can guarantee...I'm not going to want to be having any type of sex with a guy like that.
I have dated & dumped men who did this to me. Yes, I'm a very pretty woman...I will go ahead and toot my own horn on this, but I also have a very quick quick brain and a sharp wit. While I do want to know my partner finds me physically attractive...I also need to know that he feels I contribute more than just sexual body parts to our R.
Unfortunately, I have a suspicion that this is how CeMar's W could be feeling. If she feels that all he wants from her is sex, that's likely to be a BIG turnoff.
Any other ladies want to chime in on this one? Shoot me down? Prop me up?
GEL, I’m not one of the other ladies, but I’m with you on this.
When we were in college, W had a roommate who was absolutely drop-dead gorgeous. Guys drooled when she walked by. Profs drooled when she walked by. One of the tenor sax players in the stage band had a running bet with the director (head of the music department) about whether he could get this girl to go out with him. We’re talking killer good looks here.
This girl had a collection of diamond jewelry that you would have to see to believe. She had a closet full of designer clothes. Everything from would be suitors. She sprayed VERY expensive perfume around the room for air freshener and told STBW, “The sh!thead loves me.” She had gifts, she had dinners, she had guys falling at her feet to give her anything she wanted or do anything she liked. And guess whom she liked…, me. She tried her best to get me.
“Why” you ask? She wasn’t drawn to me for my looks – I was pretty skinny and gawky back then. It wasn’t because I showered her with compliments – I didn’t. It wasn’t money or anything else I could give her – there were plenty of guys with a lot more money than I had who were more than willing to spend it on her. It was because I wasn’t interested in hitting on her. It was because I was interested in STBW and treated the roommate as a person rather than a sex object and potential conquest. This isn’t speculation on my part; she said this to W. She said that I was the only guy there who treated her like a person.
This is a long-winded way of saying that catering to her every whim in the hopes of getting laid ain’t gonna do it. She needs to be engaged as a person. And it’s up to you to figure out how to do that.
I agree that women's minds have to be engaged in order for their bodies to follow. Many times I've been downright disgusted by guys who just wanted to get a piece..
Otoh, there is a wide range of what constitutes "engaging one's mind" and it is a different threshold for all women. I think I need much less mental stimulation or "romance" if you want to call it that than other women. I am more body-driven and if I am attracted to a man, I will find a reason to find him mentally engaging. But I am VERY easily turned off by a bad personality, and no amount of physical stimulation will get me past that hump and perhaps that is where I differ from the HD guys. Who knows.
WB, that was a crazy story. People do seem to go after what they cannot have, don't they.
Honeypot, dreaming of what she has not been able to have for months now (and counting..)
Let me make another suggestion. I saw Dave make a suggestion - I have one as well. Since I read that you were at church and found a book in your church library, I'll make the assumption that you're a Christian. Based upon that assumption, let me strongly recommend Christian Family Services in Garland. You can find them here. I have personal experience with them and give them an unequivocal thumbs up. I can't say enough good about them - they literally saved my M. Please feel free to contact me offline at wildebube at hotmail dot com if you would like more details outside of the public forum.
That is a very good suggestion, and yes, my worship minister at church told me about the Christian Services in Garland. I suggested to my wife that we go. Her reply was that someone else (counseler) telling her to have sex was not going to make her want to have sex. I have thought about just going myself, but this would be just like reading the books. If I am the only one wanting things to improve in this area, how is it going to help? To relply to the other previous posts- I should be doing plenty to win over my wife's mind. My mother says I do way too much for her (W). I sometime's agree, but isn't that what you are supposed to do for your spouse? Do things for them, make them feel like you care? for them and the kids? I agree with the previous post about her being too comfortable with the way things are. I think she thinks that I will do what I have been doing for 12 years (all the good stuff), whether she decides to have more sex or not. We had a big discussion over our marriage before we bought our house two years ago. I did not want to get into a house until we had our relationship worked out. She thought that I was holding the house over her head, but I just did not want to add more stuff that would have to be handled if we ended up getting divorced. We got away for the weekend and did alot of talking. We were going to work on this and that. Once we got into the house, everything went back to the way it was before. I am willing to do whatever I need to do, but I have got to be getting something back from her that tells me it is not all for nothing. I am not an old guy yet (no offense to any older guys), I am not ready to be put out to pasture, I still want an intimate, love filled relationship where it is me and my wife against the world and not each other.
God is love, love is blind, Ray Charles is blind......so there.
Quote: I have thought about just going myself, but this would be just like reading the books. If I am the only one wanting things to improve in this area, how is it going to help?
ONE of you has to change. Both of you are not going to change simultaneously. I strongly urge you to go by yourself. And for your W's info, NO therapist is just going to tell you to have sex. GO, Andy. When you start changing and being more effective, she will likely get curious. Somebody has got to move the first log in this logjam. YOU'RE the one who wants change, so start changing.
