I wrote the following offline before reading your post Jennifer - it makes so much sense and I will take the advice.
I am posting what follows anyway as a reminder to myself of how to be self destructive and as a record of my feelings earlier this morning.
I have a husband who tells me he loves me every day, has expressed his regret, is aware that we need to talk about things and that his being in a different country is not helping to sort out our problems and instead of feeling happy and grateful for him making a vast leap I am frothing at the mouth with rage and self righteous indignation and mentally saying really offensive things to him. Instead of choosing inner peace I am deliberately choosing inner conflict. I know how to make myself happier by focusing on positive things and stopping negative thoughts but am unwilling to do it. Maybe it is because I have decreased the anti- depressants or because I am a self destructive idiot.
I have compiled a list of questions for my husband which starts as purely factual questions and descends rapidly into whys. Asking most of them would serve one purpose which would be to point out what a [censored] he’s been and make him feel more miserable and guilty than I assume he does already. As for the mainly ‘when’ questions I would like to ask them because: It would stop me from having to continue assuming certain things It would indicate (assuming he was going to be completely honest) that talking about his affair is not taboo It would begin to redress the balance of responsibility for the breakdown of our relationship which he has hitherto placed firmly on my shoulders and for which I feel very resentful
This is the first phase of questions I want to ask - just realised that why is the first 1. Why did OW go to your mothers exhibition? (this was five weeks after he came out of hospital where he had spent two weeks morphined up to the eyeballs – he lost sight, eyeball remains and I have no idea whether the very high morphine doses would contributed to depression. I do remember coming out of hospital after routine surgery 20 years ago and feeling very low. 2. What did you talk about 3. When did you next communicate 4. Who contacted who 5. Was there any part of your communication that you wouldn’t have had if I had been listening/reading. 6. When did Ows last relationship end (I know she had live in boyfriend who moved out after the exhibition meeting but H doesn’t know I know) 7. When did you tell OW you were going to leave me? 8. Did you say you were going to move in with her then? 9. Why did you tell me you weren’t having an affair ?
My assumed scenario is that he planned new life with her before he gave me any verbal indication that he was not happy, and that his behaviour was manipulative and he was waiting for me to explode so he could justify his departure – or thought I would leave.
He isn’t back till 26th April so I have plenty of time to reconsider.
Midip, your questions and your anger are so understandable. I just don't think that now is the time to ask them and express those feelings. Hang on to them, you'll get your chance further down the road. You've done so brilliantly so keep doing what you've been doing. I imagine the relationship is still much too fragile to weather the sort of strain that that sort of talk would cause.
Good luck getting your PMA up!
Courage and patience, Wendy
Me: 51 H: 52 T: 23 yrs M: 19 yrs S18, D16, S14 (special needs) PA: 2003/2004 Piecing: 2004 on Suspect H had EA: 8/2012-12/2012
I am thrilled to read of the positive strides in your relationship with H.. I'm so happy for you!!
I see in you a person who is not afraid to think through difficult things and to confront realities about herself. Your comment about "choosing inner conflict instead of inner peace" (or something like that) really struck me. If you can acknowledge that there is that conflict within you, you are well on your way towards choosing the actions that are best for you and your R.. Betsey (Underdog) posted something to me recently about building an arsenal. I had been thinking through some things are trying on different solutions for size and she mentioned that it might be an idea to just put that in the arsenal and, like a good soldier, recognize when (and if) that particular weapon was going to be useful for the war. You are working through questions that are important to you. Will the answers always be necessary to you? Is it necessary to have the answers right now? Put them in your DB Warfare file and decide when, where, or if they are going to be effective in winning you the battle for a whole and growing relationship.
I'm rambling, Midip. I guess I've missed talking to you! I've been getting advice lately that there has to come a point in my own relationship with my H. that I am allowed to use my voice again or identify my needs and have them met. You've buried your own needs for a long while in order to meet your H's needs. Your questions reveal needs that you have. There does need to come a point that your H. addresses these needs. Is the overriding theme your trust of him? Are there other ways he could demonstrate that he is once again trustworthy to you?
Summary of rambling: I think you are doing great. I think your needs/questions are valid. Be careful with your timing/strategy for attempting to have that need met.
Courage and hugs to you.
~Alanah
"It seems to me that we often, almost sulkily, reject the good that God offers us because, at the moment, we expected some other good."
C.S. Lewis
Jennifer, I am so loving this outfit – think I’ll be winning an award at the DB BB fashion parade. I am currently only sporting the duct tape as he’s not here.
I sent him a loving letter for our 5th wedding anniversary (wood) an oak leaf and a little quote which I picked up somewhere along the way – ‘After storms, oaks put down stronger roots’. Sadly he still hasn’t received it as he had to go for an eye appointment in London. Doctor suggested removing eye – H is adamant that he wants to keep it. GMF (who gave him a very hard time about his departure soon after and said he couldn’t support H’s new relationship) met him after – eye hospital being on the wrong side of london for my personal comfort, and H reported favourably on the reunion.
I am still reading ‘Not Just Friends’ which I find compelling and interesting though mostly irrelevant. The ssuccess rate statistics for reuniting with a former sweetheart were rather shocking – 72% so feel I had a bit of a narrow escape there – though I am still of the opinion (assumption) that OW was an escape route from me rather than love, infatuation or anything else, whereas the examples of unfaithful partners in the book tend to still want to maintain the marriage.
Tuesday night I didn’t phone him – a) because he doesn’t ask me about me, b) I knew he’d be watching a soccer match and c) SIL phoned me for two hours! I sent him a text to say goodnight. Wed morning he left two phone messages – he had forgotten that it was our wedding anniversary (which didn’t offend me in the slightest as it is a fairly recent development and we have always ‘celebrated’ the day the clocks go back at the end of October). When I spoke to him on Wednesay evening he said he was feeling very insecure because I hadn’t phoned. Not sure that the penny has dropped with him that I have had a wee trauma of my own!
Snoopy snoops discovered a missing cheque book, a key for the front door (we had existed with one for three years and they are not cut locally) the neighbours’ spare key (which I noticed missing after his november visit) and a receipt for a bra. Hmmmmph. The front door key spells malice aforethought beyond a reasonable doubt to me.
Have just come back from the cinema seeing Million Dollar Baby, which, rather like Betseys tale of the paraplegic pastor made me realise how lucky I am – and also reminded me of another quote I read somewhere about God only giving you as much as you could take – this patience mallarky is turning me into a blithering idiot He obviously knows my limit!.
I've been thinking about asking H to take on financial responsibility for family (thanks to Wendy) when he is back full time. The day before his departure he asked me all sorts of questions like how much the mortgage was etc which clearly indicated that he had no idea. Also meal planning. I am not going to ask right now but I like the idea of separating the individual jobs involved in running a family.
Hello midip - Greetings from the same side of the pond I have been a lurker here, and sense a turning point.
Quote: I've been thinking about asking H to take on financial responsibility for family (thanks to Wendy) when he is back full time. The day before his departure he asked me all sorts of questions like how much the mortgage was etc which clearly indicated that he had no idea. Also meal planning. I am not going to ask right now but I like the idea of separating the individual jobs involved in running a family.
Sharing chores and errands was the best thing I got going since the bomb. I find fewer reasons to 'chase' for closure, he now knows what it feels like to 'own' a problem. Not that it was an easy transition, bcuz well, things are just not done the same way are they? But well worth the extra rolls of duct tape while he fumbles through the logistics of life.
He's asking the right questions, so let him process through it and offer to take financial responsibility for the family. You don't have to heap all that on him right now. If you are struggling to the point of needing him to take on responsibility now, then that might be a different conversation.
I just keep thinking that your M doesn't need any added strain at the moment.
Just stay present with it and don't get into all the details that can wait a little longer... remember, you want your honeymoon to last as long as possible, because inevitably it will end. Why end it sooner?
Midip, I think Jennifer gave you some really good advice. Take things slow, OK? I sense that slowing things down might be another 180 for you....maybe?!
It seems that your H. is genuine in his desire to come back and to contribute in a meaningful way to your relationship. Would it be helpful to you to write a big list of all the things you would like to ask H. to do, priorize them, and then seal them in a time capsule for awhile? To borrow the analogy that you used on my thread where you likened your H. being back to a can of worms awaiting dissection, remember to just deal with one worm at a time!!
When does your H. get back from his eye appt. in London? Will it have stirred up feelings of loss for him?
Courage, Midip....
~Alanah
"It seems to me that we often, almost sulkily, reject the good that God offers us because, at the moment, we expected some other good."
C.S. Lewis
I didn't mean I was going to ask him right away - just planning ahead and looking at what I would like and as am not naturally gifted at looking and doing what he would like always find this quite necessary.
I have two wonderful things to report about my H. 1. he replaced broken dishwasher in London and then told me. 2. He asked D13 what she wanted for b-day and bought it - it was a jacket she had loosely described.
I am so impressed. Is he a secret DBer?
He continues to send loving texts and we speak every day. He was pretty glum yesterday as he had spent weekend alone - in the snow - whereas I had been to a rioutous birthday bash on saturday night and didn't get home till bedtime on Sunday - having danced and sung and eaten and drunk and sat by pool in the sun in great company.
Thanks for asking about his eye Alanah (I mustn't forget about it). The loss continues to be very difficult for him.
A long, and probably boring post in which we see poor little Midip still bowed under the BAB (betrayed, abandoned, blamed) banner. my real life friends now think I should be cock a hoop to have my marriage back when in fact I am feeling more glum so will put my feelings out even if they are rather petty in the light of others.
H has sent a few texts expressing loneliness, isolation whilst he has been in the North – 2 weeks! And nasty Midip thinks she has experienced 6 months loneliness and isolation with little emotional support other than by phone and internet, and wonders if H is aware of how devastating I found it. nice Midip sympathises and reminds him that he will soon be home. His neediness frightens me.
He tells me he loves me every day by text and by phone. On Tuesday he told me he had sent me a letter, and also said that I might not speak to him again after I got it – so have been rather intriqued and rather scared to find out what it said. He also said it wasn’t in any way meant to be definitive or intractable.
Letter arrived today with carved heart with H 4 W made by his own fair hand.
I feel disloyal in throwing his letter out for public perusal – even paraphrased . And just before Jennifer coshes me over the head, will say that I know he is opening up his feelings and is showing willing in every way for which I am grateful (but it still made me sad, angry, and wanting to argue lots of points) I guess I have to validate what I can and ignore what I can’t agree with?
So here is the brief paraphrase with my comments/feelings in blue.
P1. Comment on my debauched weekend. P2. Emotional state of sadness balanced by overwhelming happiness which leads to frequent tears. P3. Fear that talking about what went wrong is opening old wounds but aware that it’s a wonderful opportunity for regeneration. P4. Surprise that I hadn’t seen the situation the same straighforward way he does. (At the point of his departure all I knew was that he was leaving because: I was horrible I had no compassion He used to think my hardness and coldness were funny but doesn’t any more He was sexually frustrated I was a control freak I was bossy I had destroyed his self esteem I criticised everything he did (actually maybe its not surprising he left but these things are all debatable and he had not ever mentioned being unhappy before. He vehemently denied that he was having an affair. P5. The part of the DR that he read made marital problems cliched and typical. (don’t know how much he read) list of negative feelings about marriage – being taken for granted, breakdown of communication, presumption that I wasn’t interested, sexual rejection, monotony of parenthood and household chores, fear of middle age, being trapped in a world you didn’t want and big enemy ego. P6. Foolish for not discussing feelings during 16 years BUT he truly sensed me hating him. Outlines the pursuer distancer dynamic. Accepts that it is probably not worse than any other relationship and that many people stay in miserable marriages. (this was not at all my perception of our marriage – nor anyone I knows perception, including our children) P7 Accident had positive effect on his feelings We had a fantastic life, wonderful children etc. 2 problems – crap sex life and having to do building work for other people. He decided he was going to do something positve about both. (he was working max 3 days a week for other people for 3 years and by anyone in the worlds standards we had idyllic life and one that he above all of us had chosen, I had a list of reservations about living in an isolated house in a foreign country as long as my arm). P8. Came out of hospital and everything perfect – passionate sex – for two weeks. P9. Doesn’t know what went wrong after that – no passionate sex and doing building work. (and here is where I know I started being angry – his mum gave him a fair wodge of dosh so he didn’t have to go to work – but he told me that it made him feel ‘manly’ or words to that effect and I wanted him to take it easy - yes controlling but also he was unable to do the slightest thing at home, even to the point of sitting at the meal table with family yet able to put in a 10 hour day for someone else and all the time saying losing an eye is no big deal. I am very confused about this period as it is two weeks between feeling happy and meeting OW). Marital hell – horrid children, money worries , one eye, etc etc. Confession that perhaps due to traumatised state saw it as ‘me or you’ situation and everything reasonable shut down and he had to escape permanently. Unfortunate to ‘end up’ in another relationship so quickly. (as if it happened after he left – cannot go with that for a moment). After he left I was very angry with him (now theres a big surprise – 4 children, paying guests, dog, 4 cats, 10 hens, duck, goat, vast isolated ruin and non – negotiable I’m leaving) and the angrier I was the more he was convinced that he was justified (now here’s a funny thing that I dbd by accident rather than design for the first month, e-mail was our only contact, and had two slip ups one by e-mail which was a heart-felt list of all the ways he had failed our marriage but repeatedly validating his good points (huge eff up ending asking if he was mad or complete bstd and one in person where I told him how totally devastated I was. After that I was so careful about everything I said and did and couldn’t have done it better retrospectively.) P10. Pre christmas visit changed everything – resolve stood fast till last minute – after that each time he saw me he fell in love with me more and more (there were no visits between pre-christmas and him taking ‘day off’ from skiing holiday with OW to tell me he wanted to come back – this is fact not imagination, 8 weeks of virtual silence) . Suddenly could see only love, kindness, strength etc etc. Adores me. (at the risk of sounding downright churlish do not want adoration.)
So this is how I feel: I love/am in love with a man who has knocked me unconscious and thrown me overboard and I have sunk to the bottom of the sea. I have woken up and have been swimming toward the surface (weathering the rocks that man threw to stop my ascent) but just before I could take a breath of air he decided it looked like fun (he dived in despite Ms nympho big tits sitting on board) and instead of two making it easier to get to the surface, one of us is still the stronger swimmer and the baggage is pulling me down.. I am worn out and want to be rescued. I don’t want to live my life rescuing. This is sums up my feeilings as an individual. As a parent of 4 I am screaming and thrashing. I refuse to be parent to 5 again!
It all seems like crappy laughable rubbish reading it through. He has not taken responsibility for leeaving and setting up with OW, he has not taken responsibility for four childrens emotional welfare (they have not lived with tower of strength, they have endured a depressed woman who managed to tke them to school and feed them – nothing else – and I know he has seen it as a better option. I feel less valued as a human being as ever. Wine/ or is it whine whine whine whine.
It is so confusing when in my heart I love him, in my head I can do without him – Yet it is my head that rules compassion/empathy and my heart wants revenge. Wish I could grow up. Wish I could tell him how I feel. OW is no more than a jar or resecu remedy. But the betrayal is now everything. I hav spent 45 years accepting that heart rules head and it is very difficult to make that big transition.
I've been getting advice lately that there has to come a point in my own relationship with my H. that I am allowed to use my voice again or identify my needs and have them met. You've buried your own needs for a long while in order to meet your H's needs. Your questions reveal needs that you have. There does need to come a point that your H. addresses these needs. Is the overriding theme your trust of him? Are there other ways he could demonstrate that he is once again trustworthy to you? 
I have been a lurker here, and sense a turning point. 