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Hi there,

So I'm betting that you've hit the nail on the head with two big issues -- S9 and the stress associated with h's job.

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This is usually a daily thing in our home. Something will happen to set S9 off, whether it's his homework being a little too hard or S5 doing something to "irritate" him, and when this happens, I see H cringe, get angry, throw his hands up in frustration, or even cry. H has said to me that he loves S9 but sometimes he feels like he hates him. He hates when S9 acts the way he does, and he does not want to be around when S9 gets like that. H said a few times before, "Why can't S9 be like S5? S5 is so perfect. He doesn't complain, whine, scream, or do anything else that S9 does. Why can't S9 just be normal like his little brother?" I've told H that's just not a fair comparison at all and getting angry with S9 was not helping him get any better. H tries to be calmer with S9 now, but it's hard for him to be, so most times, H will get so fed up that he leaves the house.

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So I handle S9 all the time, and it can be very exhausting......I would hate to say that this is the main issue wearing on H, but it is huge.

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So...I don't have children so I'm not going to even pretend to understand the stress that this sort of thing has on a M.

Let me ask some things...do you and h tend to agree on how to handle S9? It sounds as though you do most of the "handling" -- have I read that correctly?

what if you tried something different? I found for myself and my h that ASKING him for his input on this we disagree over is HUGE to him...and then TAKING his ADVICE 100%. Have you tried this?

Have you tried LETTING h handle S9 solo? Not stepping in? I'm not say leave in a huff...but really doing a 180 as far as who takes control.

Perhaps h feels as though he doesn't have enough say in this area? (I have no idea if that is true...just throwing stuff out there).

Think about how you guys usually handle this and let's come up with some 180s.

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Another thing is H's job. It requires a TON of traveling.

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I used to try to soothe him, just listen to him, or do anything else I thought might help, but nothing ever seemed to work, so I guess I kind of gave up. I still hear what H has to say, but all I usually say to him now is "that sucks" or "sorry you have to deal with that."

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I know from my own sitch that job dissatisfaction can be HUGE for one's spouse.

Would h have the option of getting a different job?

does h have other dreams as far as a career?

pre-bomb my h quit his job with 2 weeks notice, bummed around for a few months and then decided to go to law school. It was quite a big (!!) change for us but I rolled with it and he is happier in law school than I could have imagined. I really think that being able to follow his dream made a huge difference in our sitch.

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I have read After the Affair. Maybe I should reread it. I've even asked H to read it. He said twice that he would, but he hasn't. I've also suggested counseling a few times to him, but he is not for it. I may have to just do it for myself.

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OK...my h hasn't picked up a book to my knowledge and we only went to 1 (awful) counseling session together. It's definitely not "required" and if he's not into it, it can hurt more than help.

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Kind of a dumb question here: Should I start packing H's things for him or leave them alone?

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Yikes. I would say a resounding NO to packing for him. Kind of a mixed message, right?

Sage

Hello, Sage.

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Let me ask some things...do you and h tend to agree on how to handle S9? It sounds as though you do most of the "handling" -- have I read that correctly?

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Yes, I'm the one who mostly deals with S9 mainly because of H working. H is not home often during daytime hours, but if he is, he will try to help with the kids especially S9 if and when S9 gets out of hand.

Do we tend to agree? Many times before, I would say no. H felt I was too easy and soft on him, and I felt H was way too harsh, a bit abusive (verbally). These disagreements would often cause arguments. When I would handle S9, and H didn't agree, H would say something like, "That's not going to teach him anything. He'll be doing the same crap tomorrow just like he always does. I'm sick of this s**t! He will never learn because he gets his way no matter what." When H would deal with S9, and I disagreed, I would complain about things H would say to S9. H would often yell and even sometimes swear when disciplining S9. H has spanked S9 many times and has never been happy about it. Not that spanking is something to be happy about - I just mean that H was always remorseful for having done it.

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what if you tried something different? I found for myself and my h that ASKING him for his input on this we disagree over is HUGE to him...and then TAKING his ADVICE 100%. Have you tried this?

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There were times when H asked me, "What do you think I should do?" I usually suggested that H try to CALMLY talk to S9, calmly explain to him that there was no reason to react a certain way. If H wasn't getting anywhere with S9, then I told H to consider a time-out (when S9 was younger) or take certain privileges away. This is usually how I handle things. When I asked H what he thought I should do (which I have to admit wasn't that often), H would say he didn't know, that no matter what we did, S9 would never learn because we'd always end up giving in to him sooner or later.

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Have you tried LETTING h handle S9 solo? Not stepping in? I'm not say leave in a huff...but really doing a 180 as far as who takes control...Perhaps h feels as though he doesn't have enough say in this area?

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I used to interfere, but I haven't as much for a while now. H told me before that he didn't appreciate me going against his way of dealing with S9, so I have backed off considerably. It seems to have helped quite a bit at home, but when H takes S9 and S5 to go bowling, play miniature golf, etc, if H or S5 get a better score than S9, this always stirs something up in S9. H would call me from his cell and say, "I just wanted to let you know we're coming home already because SOMEONE can't behave. SOMEONE doesn't want anyone to outscore him. SOMEONE is acting like a little (you name it)." H complains that he just wants to have a good time with them both (and the baby when he gets older). He feels he can with S5, but S9 always seems to ruin it for them all. I've suggested that he only take S5 out to do things and maybe S9 will get the picture, but H says he doesn't want to do that.

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I know from my own sitch that job dissatisfaction can be HUGE for one's spouse...Would h have the option of getting a different job?...does h have other dreams as far as a career?

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I know that my H HATES his current job. He has taken employment tests for PG&E and an oil refinery nearby. He passed the tests for PG&E, but they will keep him on file for 1 year and notify him if any positions become available. Unfortunately, he did not pass the oil refinery's test. He felt it was because of the personal questions he had to answer such as "are you the type who can sit still or are you antsy?"...H cannot sit still. H is currently preparing for an employment test with Chevron.

His dream career? I think H would like to have his own small business. A small coffee shop or a pizza place. I think he would really like to do the pizza place. H used to work at numerous pizza restaurants when we first started dating. He would mix up his own creations for pizza sauce or pasta, and they were really quite good! H has been hesitant on looking into this. Is he a bit scared? Possibly. It would be a BIG change.

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Yikes. I would say a resounding NO to packing for him. Kind of a mixed message, right?

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You're right. My mind is a little clearer today. I don't know what I was really thinking when I asked that! Thank you, Sage.

Thanks for listening.

I hope you don’t mind my butting in…But I was reading your thread and wanted to say that at this point your H’s indecision on moving out is exactly that…INDECISION. My H had come to me in Jan & told me that he was moving out (I know now that it was because he was planning a trip to OK to see OW) so I couldn’t say anything other than I had hoped that he wouldn’t. For weeks he was planning his departure. It was perfect timing because his sister was moving out of a makeshift apt in his mothers house in a few weeks. So for weeks he was helping sister out at her new place, painting his apartment. So as I saw the days drawing near, I tried to stay out of his way and not question anything he was doing. Then the day I thought he was actually leaving was the day he was taking his trip. We had a heart to heart before him leaving and then we he came home from trip he came HOME. He has since threatened that he is leaving, but hasn’t. So to make a long story short, even tho H is planning his departure, it doesn’t mean that he is actually going to do it. Don’t you dare mention it. Don’t pack for him. I did that when I kicked H out when first finding out about OW. I actually packed his things. You know if he is not happy then he should pack his OWN things, not you do it for him. I am not sure from reading your posts that H is actually going to leave. Just a guess on my part.

Not knowing your entire sitch, forgive me for asking, has H ended it with OW? Mine still has not, and it appears to still be going strong. I am at odds as to what to do, but intend to just hold tight for a few days until I can clearly make up my mind.

Sun

Hi, Sun. You weren't butting in. I appreciate any and all thoughts.

I don't think there is anymore contact going on between my H and OW, but I can't say for sure. He did call her after telling me he wasn't going to, and he said after she knew about me, then she would call him from a blocked ID number. I have checked his phone less and less in the past few weeks and have seen an incoming call from a blocked ID a couple of times. I never asked him about them. It could be OW or it could be a customer. I don't know. I WANT to know, but I won't ask.

Pretty much up until this point, H has been very indecisive. Even after telling him to be out by this Sunday, my H has said things like "if I leave" and "I haven't decided yet." But he hasn't said any of that since finding out he can stay with a friend rent-free for 5 months. The "ILY"s have stopped coming from H, too, since then. H has called the house or my cell just to talk to the kids.

I know nothing is final, but it sure does seem to be heading that way. My H will be home in about 4 or 5 hours. Will he be packing his things then? I sure hope not.

Thanks again for the insight and advice, Sun. I've read your sitch, too, and I feel you. Hang in there and I'll do the same.

Thanks for listening.

Hello there. Tonight's update:

The boys are at my MIL's. They went there to color eggs with Grandma as they do every year. H called her to let her know he would be picking the boys up around 7:30pm. H gets there, but the boys wanted to stay the night, so he let them.

H got home after 8pm. He told me the kids wanted to stay with MIL, blah blah blah. H said he was there at his mom's for 40 minutes or so (this is RARE - he never likes to be there for more than 10 or 15 minutes). His voice became very shaky. I asked what was wrong, and H said MIL was making him feel guilty. I said, "What do you mean?....Did you tell her?" H said he told her about everything (his A, his unhappiness and confusion, etc) like a month and a half ago. H asked her not to say anything to me about it. I asked how was MIL making him feel guilty. H said she felt it was very important for us to show up at his grandparents' house for Easter. H's grandmother's health has been going downhill rapidly over this past year. Among many things, her kidneys are failing. MIL feels that H's grandmother may not have too much time left. Also, MIL expressed her deep concern for how this (possible D) will affect the kids. H said she kept saying things like "this is YOUR FAMILY, what is wrong with you?, can't you work on it (M)?, etc, etc." H said his mom was nearly in tears. He didn't tell me what he said to her, if anything, but he said he left before the kids could see him cry. I didn't know what to say. I was pretty much silent. I was thinking, "Thank you, MIL!" Sorry. It just felt somewhat good that somebody else was able to say something to H, but now I'm feeling that was bad. It probably just put more pressure on H. I'm sure that wasn't MIL's intention.

H was here for about an hour. I ran to the store to get more Pedialyte for the baby. He left to go play cards shortly after I returned and said I could call him if I needed. H said he's going to take S9 and S5 to play mini-golf and bowling tomorrow (the boys' favorite things to do). H gave me a couple of hugs before leaving. He asked me to wait up for him.....Ummm, I'll try, but if anyone out there is familiar with poker playing, you and I both know how long he could be gone.

Thanks for listening.

weird feeling, isn't it? You want someone to say something to them. like your MIL did. But then you know it puts pressure on them. Recently my MIL said something to my H but he got pised about it. I was not told what the convo was. Plus if it comes from family, its pressure and they are biased. I kept hoping one of his friends would say something,but then i realized that H couldn't have possibly told them much or else he would look like a total buttwipe.If it came from somwone they respected, a peer, a friend, maybe .But from family or us, nope.

Sportster - Thanks for stopping by, and I hear ya loud and clear. I know what my mom would say to H if she knew about all this, but at least it was his mom putting it nicely! I wish I knew what H told our mutual friend who he is considering moving in with. Probably not much.

It's almost 6am here. I just fed the baby. H got home around 1:30am from playing cards. I had fallen asleep on the couch while watching some TV. H was on his phone when he walked in. I asked who he was talking to, and he said so-and-so (another friend). H always has the volume on his cell on high, so I can almost always hear the voice and sometimes the convo going on. I got up and went to bed. H followed behind, still on his phone. I was in bed already, H was getting ready to get in too, and I could hear (friend) say, "So...can you talk right now?" H said, "Umm...not really." Then I hear (friend) say, "Well, all I'm going to say is this.....", then H turned the volume down for about 20 seconds, turns it back up, and said, "Yeah. Alright. I'll talk to you later." Ok, obviously it was something H did not want me to hear. I don't know for sure, but I think this friend (who has been friends with H for over 13 years) might know about what has happened. There were times after the A when H and I would be talking while (friend) was there, and before anything got heated, H would say right in front of him, "I don't want to talk about this in front of (friend)." This happened enough for (friend) to be able to catch on that something may be wrong with us. Like I said, they've been friends for a long time, and H would probably consider him to be his best friend. This friend has told my H (who then told me) in the past 6 months that he envies what H has at home. A GREAT wife , great kids, a nice home, etc. He told H that he would kill to have what he has. There was one time, not too long ago, when this friend actually told me with H right there how he felt. He said, "You do him good, JV, and he's the luckiest SOB there is." Wow, I wonder what was going through H's mind at that time since he had already started the A then.

Anyway, H got in bed and asked if he could hold me. I said yes. After a minute, H said weepily, "I'm sorry, JV.....I'm so sorry for everything I've put you through. You're so perfect - " I said that I am NOT perfect. H continued on saying that I deserve someone so much better than him, he was quiet for a minute, then he said "ILY". I said it, too. I was falling back asleep, but I think I heard H say that he has to go to AZ on Monday, and he's not sure how long he will be gone.

So now it's Saturday. H said he would be out by Sunday. I have no idea what is going to happen. All I know is that for the past couple of days, he seemed to act like he was ready to go, but after this early morning, I don't know which way he will go.

Thanks for listening, everyone.

Chances are if he said he was out by Easter Sunday, and today is saturday, and he hasn't moved anything, he isn't going anywhere. And he has to to got to Arizona to boot? Nah, he ain't leavin. Not this coming week anyway.

What you said about your H's friend saying nice things about you struck a cord with me. But in my case, my H seemed to always see the bad in things, and once during our first divorce, his best friend told him he would kill to have a Sporster at home, and that H should think about what he is giving up.. Well, years later H asscuses me of sleeping with this guy, and quotes what he said. I started to notice if anyone (male) would say anything nice about me to h, that person would not be his friend for long. Example: Before this divorce we used to go to bike events with this other couple from H's work. When they found out, about the D , the guys says to h, his wife is gonna be pissed, she loves Sportster.
They did invite me to dinner but since they were H's friends (and cause of what has happened in the past)I jokingly said "I think H got custody of you in the seperation agreement". Well, any time I asked H about him/her after that, he says he still talks to friend occasionally, but he is getting weird, blah blah blah. Yea, right. I think H doesn't want them to know what reason he is giving for divorce cause then they really would rake him over the coals! Plus he is involved with OW who also works there, and I have my suspicions that he has told her a different story all along about he wanted out.

Do you still want him to leave? I's say keep doing what you are doing cause he isn't going anywhere in a hurry appearently. And if you want him to stay this seems to be helping that.

No, I really never wanted H to leave, but instead of begging, pleading, crying for him to stay, I did tell him that he should go if he's not happy here and I would understand. I haven't been acting too cheery lately (I am trying though) and have been just going through my daily routine. I'm trying not to be bothered by anything.

Well, earlier before H, S9, and S5 left for their day out together, H said that a friend is having a farewell get-together at his place tonight (he's moving to Hawaii). H asked if I wanted to go. I said I wasn't sure, I'd have to see about a sitter for the kids. H said that he didn't want to go unless I went with him.

So, I've made arrangements for S9 and S5 to go to MIL's again tonight, and my parents will watch the baby. I called H on his cell about 45 minutes ago to tell him this. I said I just wanted to tell him that the kids were taken care of if he still wanted to go to (friend)'s house. H asked if I was going with him, and I said if he wanted me to. H kind of let out a sigh and said tersely, "I don't know." Then his tone got a lot more aggravated and he said, "Two days ago, I thought I was moving out, and now, I just don't know. I could care less about going to (friend)'s tonight....I have to go to AZ in 3 days. I want to get this resolved. I don't want to cry or have a breakdown. I want to have a conversation with you later when I get back, ok?" I said ok then we said bye. Like I said, H sounded aggravated, almost angry.

H hasn't packed anything, but he is a procrastinator most of the time, so it wouldn't surprise me if he did it all right before he planned on leaving. Right now, I think he'd only take his clothes and the bare necessities anyway.

I'm afraid of what may be said during our convo. I know, I'm thinking and/or expecting the worst right now, and I probably shouldn't do that. Or should I? I feel totally unprepared for this upcoming convo.

Any and all advice on how to possibly prepare myself for this would be deeply appreciated. Thank you.

My advice....LISTEN to what he is saying, his thoughts his feelings. MY H never tells me how he feels, so I would welcome that. Even if it hurts. Be understanding and affirming.

I have my fingers crossed for ya...
Sun