Quote: If you have ever suffered from depression you will understand. It's like sitting around knowing you are hungry, knowing you would love a steak but settling for a peanut butter sandwich because it is easier.
Oh, gawd, don't get us all started on the STEAK ANALOGIES again today!
You did a much better job explaining this. Thanks.
Sorry if my post wasn't what some of you wanted to hear. Call me a jerk, but if my W busted my ass over an MB preference, I wouldn't be any more motivated to have sex with her. I'd simply be more motivated to cover my tracks better.
The one thing my counselor taught us to do is discern feelings from behaviors and to learn what things are part of the relational system vs. an individual's system. If he's unwilling to listen to you, or share what his preferences are, etc., then that's something to bust his ass over because it's a retreat from intimacy rather than an approach.
But take Cathy's post to heart and respect the fact that your H has "feelings" that are driving this behavior. Try to understand his feelings but also share yours in a way that's not threatening. Say "I can understand why you like that...it just makes me feel like (fill in the blank)". Then leave it up to him to change his behavior or not.
Does this make sense?
BTW. Though it may seem like it, I'm not siding with him. My C says that I shouldn't even be on this site without asking my W to participate because I'm being "intimate" here rather than in my marriage. She really isn't telling me to bring my W to this site, she just saying that I should be sharing my feelings with her instead of here which would negate my need for this site.
Again, I haven't read the history but it shouldn't matter because these pretty much big-picture guiding principles.
- Dave
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
For me it wasn't that he was MB'ing...or looking at porn. The thing that tripped my trigger is his choice of website and local. He is choosing to view women in his area....sorry, for me that REALLY crosses a line.
I'm a pretty open-minded person. But the fact that he's choosing to look at women he could actually pursue in person for me would be a HUGE THREAT!
Can you try to put a spin on that so I can understand where he may be coming from?
Quote: discern feelings from behaviors and to learn what things are part of the relational system vs.
I think that is one of the most important things I have learned...behind every action is an emotion. The action isn't going to stop until the emotion is identified and dealt with.
I'm not saying overlook his actions, especially if they disrespect you and your marriage. I just think that once we internalize the idea that a behavior in someone may not be representative of what that person is actually feeling.
GEL, I can certainly understand why him looking so close to home would be upsetting. It could be a sign that he is on the verge of looking outside the marriage AND himself to find answers for his problems. That is not a good thing.
I do know that the 'idea' that these women are close may be something that turns him on and that, that 'idea' may be all that is at play here. He may not have any intentions of ever contacting any of them. Only he knows that and only he knows what is driving his desire to look.
He is playing with fire and doing damge to his marriage and his wife. I just still feel it would be counter-productive for cally not take into consideration that there might be a reason behind his behavior that has nothing to do with her at all....his desire for her, his love for her or anything. Cathy
Cathy, again, nailed it. In the past I found it more exciting to think that there are actually people within 1 mile of me that I could be with it. It's as much fantasy as (as my C puts it) this site fuels the (not necessarily sexual) fantasies of people on this site...only, the people on this site are fantasizing about a better marriage, having a spouse who is as HD as some of the people on this board, or having the same successes as people on this board. Self help books that contain case-studies are just as terrible at fueling fantasies.
Again, this comes from my C who puts 4 sub-categories of marital systems. Intimacy, Sex, Household, Parenting and that the autonomous behavior (repeat...*behaviour*) inside any of these systems should be avoided and that both parties need to always invite the other person into a particular pursuit. Ok, this is heavy stuff... you cant just throw this at your spouse and expect them to get it. I just wanted to share some of the thousands of dollars in therapy we got.
So Gel, in your situation, he might just be fantasizing...or he might be really be looking. Who knows? These are his feelings. So why don't you ask him what he is feeling? Ask him if he is really looking to hook up with someone else. I know this would be tough but you have to learn to do it without being accusatory, defensive, scared, angry, sarcastic, etc. Just play it cool and listen. Hell, ask him to show you which women he likes so far. This is the intimacy system in overdrive to probe into your spouses hidden desires. Very powerful, connection-building stuff if you can keep your cool and he can hang with it. It would be completely unrealistic for us to expect our spouse to *solely* be attracted to us. Just keep remembering PM and realize that his decision to stay with you is his decision.
Now also realize that you can and should tell him that you feel threatened by it and it makes you uncomfortable. But don't tell him not to do it. That's been the magic for us this year. We no longer tell each other to be, act, say, or do something...we state preference and wait (and sometimes wait and wait and wait). All this stuff my C taught us just stinks of PM...it's just that she knows how to be more practical with it. She (the C) also knows that communication is the key to it all.
Here's something to remind yourself of. You have zero entitlement to his feelings (ok, thats a bit harsh but I have to use that as a mantra sometimes to be empathetic to my W). Again, I'm not defending his behavior...I'm using it as an example to help you discourage his autonomous behavior and prevent you from inadvertently encouraging it. Yes, attacking him will only push him further towards autonomous behavior. Drawing yourself into his world might draw him back into yours...or maybe not, but it's the right thing to do.
I know it's hard...god, do I know it's hard. Just keep telling yourself that everything he does is because *he* decided to. Throw out all the crap you've heard on TV about "how spouses should behave etc." Hell, even throw out the wedding vows for a moment and just accept that you both are individually choosing to be with each other *today*. Is this making sense?
Only you are the master of your destiny (wow that sounds cheesy). I whined to my C that my sex life wasn't hot. She said "then make it hot". But how do I make it hot when my W doesn't want to participate? Bring your issue to her...say "I'd really like some hot sex tonight (swoon)" or "I'd like you to initiate this week" etc. If your spouse isn't in the mood, then (according to my C), make them aware that you are going to pursue one of the 4 systems (in this case sex) autonomously. Then MB. Pretty freaky right?...I nearly fell off of the C's sofa when she said this.
Anyway, I wish I could inject everyone on this site with the stuff I've learned. Like learning anything new, it's clunky at first before it becomes second-nature.
Geez, despite having a full tank in the sex department, I've been feeling low on the intimacy tank. I should have told my W this tonight...she asked why I was grumpy...I just didn't realize it until now. It explains why I was feeling compelled to go out to a bar tonight...human interaction...working out of the house has definitely affected our system because of my lack of connection with co-workers...hmm wierd. I guess I can still learn stuff by posting here.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Thanks for responding, but...."So Gel, in your situation, he might just be fantasizing", it's not my situation, it's Cally's I was merely asking to get some clarification on how someone could do this and their spouse should try to not be threatened by their actions.
For me, I would still have a BIG problem with this. It's still one thing to surf the web and MB to pictures your find there, even if they are real everyday attainable women....for me however it's still a completely different thing to register on a website and surf their local area for women. Sorry, don't mean to be stubborn about this.
I believe I do understand what you are saying, I just really do feel that if he's doing this then if he hasn't already gone outside of the marriage that possibility is something he's considering.
Thanks for trying to clarify it for me though, I appreciate that
If I caught MrsNOP cruising 'naked local singles' on a website, there would be some serious conversations going on.
If I thought she was in secret, laying in the bed getting off to porn instead of me, I would have an issue with that.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: If I thought she was in secret, laying in the bed getting off to porn instead of me, I would have an issue with that.
Hmmmm, never bothered my ex husband I did it with him laying in the bed one night...no porn involved, just loads of frustration. The man just kept on reading. Sure fire sign that someone is just not interested in you when a man will let that happen.
I agree though about a conversation being needed. It's a sign of trouble no matter what is motivating his actions.
Ever the dissenter, I have to say that I don't think marriage means that you own your spouse's body. Having a monogamous agreement is a whole lot different than saying, "I get to decide whether or not you can touch your own body." It seems to me that more R problems are created by this attitude than are solved by it.
I did it with him laying in the bed one night...no porn involved, just loads of frustration. The man just kept on reading. Sure fire sign that someone is just not interested in you when a man will let that happen.