I don't know if I should be honored or appalled that you hear my voice yelling at you silently! But since you've asked for help, I'm going to assume the former.
You didn't say, but are you feeling the same way that Hellkat indicated? Being played for a fool?
You also asked for another perspective. I'm not saying this is a good one, or the truth or something you should spend more than the time it takes to read it... okay?
Quote: Unfortunately, during my bad days, I really get stuck on this 'why' of the a, and 'why' he is unable/unwilling to understand the root cause of so much hurt in our lives.
What if the reason for his affair was good? Or what if it were bad? What if he doesn't have a reason? Or the absolute worst case scenario? What if he points to a behavior of yours that drove him away? Not one of these answers is going to bring you peace, honey.
I repeat: I AM NOT SAYING ANY OF THIS IS TRUE NOR SHOULD YOU CONSIDER HEADING DOWN THIS TUNNEL.
Okay, back to our program already in progress.
Slowly, something is ailing you, sweetie. Why is the "why" so important to you in your musings? I'm not beating you up--there are days when I really ask myself the same question. But since it appears that I'm not going to get an answer--or at least anytime soon--I really have to employ some thought stopping mechanisms to force me to change tracks.
You've listed some really wonderful positives, friend.
For some reason, the words of the counselor from my Parenting After Divorce class are tuning in to my frequency to share.
The happiest people are the ones who live in the present and spend little (if any) time focusing on the past.
It appears that you've still got an irritant that is preventing you from fully dismissing this A and forgiving him?
Slowly, one of my thought stopping mechanisms when I head down this cheeseless tunnel is to say, "Stop! You have already forgiven him for this! Now think of something else that's happier and more real!"
It's usually just enough to jar me into thinking about something else totally different. Like my friends. Or my weekend plans. Or some other problem that really needs my focus and attention.
If you had to guess, what would you say this little thing might be?
Sorry for the jarring words. They are not meant to buffet you when you're feeling low. I just want to point out an alternative perspective that may trigger some idea on why you're stuck here.
Big hugs. And may yoga calm you to serenity.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Quote: Now, from NG's perspective, this is an area he does not want to delve into 'proactively' - on one hand, he has told me that he just wants to forget the whole thing ever happened. On the other hand, he feels he is unable to justify his actions, but that over time, awareness and understanding will come naturally.
Slowly, this is probably coming from his sense of guilt. I would advise you NOT to push him on this. He's not ready to deal with his own guilt, and if you push him to do that, you will just push him away from you.
Quote: What if the reason for his affair was good? Or what if it were bad? What if he doesn't have a reason? Or the absolute worst case scenario? What if he points to a behavior of yours that drove him away? Not one of these answers is going to bring you peace, honey.
Bets makes an EXCELLENT point here....
Quote: For some reason, the words of the counselor from my Parenting After Divorce class are tuning in to my frequency to share.
The happiest people are the ones who live in the present and spend little (if any) time focusing on the past.
And here! I totally agree with what the C said to Betsey here -- the happiest people are indeed those who chose to live in the present.
You have listed some tremendous positives here, Slowly. I would give anything to be able to sit on the sofa with my SO and watch TV and hold hands!!! So would many others on the BB.
The bottom line is that the why's really aren't all that important; only the NOW is important. Will knowing the why's get you any closer to your goal? The why's really aren't about you anyway -- they are about him (whether part of it was your past behavior or not). I would suggest you consider some sort of 180 for yourself to help you get out of this rut, honey. Do something fun or nice or pampering or zaney for yourself.
Quote: Without a doubt, the biggest issue I struggle with is the 'why' - I can just hear Betsey, Pen and a whole host of others on the 'let it go', but it just keep tugging away at me
Slowly – like Betsey I’m not sure whether to be appalled or flattered …. but you do know me well. Yes, I would say "let it go".
Now before you start throwing things at me let me say quickly I understand the need for a “why”, I really do. Like me and others, you have an analytical mind that probes for root causes – mainly because we think understanding the cause of a problem will keep it from being repeated. While that is certainly true in many cases, I’m not sure it works for affairs. I personally don’t think affairs start for any one particular reason – they’re a multi-faceted phenomenon. And something else, Slowly – NG could have another affair for an entirely different reason if it came to that.
Speaking for myself, I’ve decided to analyse why I chose to participate in an affair isn’t really that productive. Will understanding why I entered one affair prevent me from entering the next? I doubt it – because the reasoning could easily change. I could enter affair one because I wasn’t paying attention to a friendship and let it get out of hand, and enter affair two because I’m feeling neglected in my marriage. What works proactively against future affairs for me is realizing the effects of affairs, and the pain they cause. I don’t want to cause, or feel, such pain again.
I could easily see NG feeling the same way – saying “I’m not quite sure why this happened, but I am sure I never want to subject Slowly (or myself) to such misery again”.
Quote: He's not ready to deal with his own guilt, and if you push him to do that, you will just push him away from you.
How true is that sentence...!!... our h deffinetily dont want to deal with guilty issue... but, inside of them be sure they had thught about their confution, hurts they caused, and behavior... My c use to comment me that men use to live by sceneraios... by the contrary, we tends to look forward, all the points and angles of our lives as a whole unit...!!... So, when they are in the scenarios of a unit familly, together, happy, the feel so confortable, but is that in a minute, when they passed the door and be in another snecearios, they analyze and enjoy that scene without thinking in the other one... Thats why is so simple for them to have an A... is true that affair use to came in a trouble M, but the M has trouble bc they are not working or focusing in M to work... Never pretend to receive from him an explanation of why... bayme he can give you the typical: Ow wanst the cause, but the consencuence... bc this explanation make them feel less guilty... My h use to tell me he doesnt want to hurt anyone... maybe it is true, but he hurts and damage a relation bc his incapcity or negative of looking inside of them... In my case, supposelly my h is going finally to C... so time will tell me if he is receiving a propper advices and tools...!! All i can tell you that after sking myself and myself, again and again, why... i feel better feeling more each day that it is not bc me... that isnt bc OW value more or deserves him more... is bc him and i cant do nothing different of working on myself and my marriage to resolve his own confution and crisis... I need to acept i hadnt close that door (my c use to talk me about a door we need to close to work on future and release past there).. i still feel insecure about his moves, but i hope time gives me more and more peace... and yes... i am more calm and in pace than a year before...!!... Excuse my english, im spanish... and good luck with that furniture remodelation... an issue i am wishing a lot to do, but i have no money to do it by myself... Andrea
I don't want to hijack slowly's post, just a little input- I think you are absolutely right! Its not about the why but about understanding that their decision caused such pain and destruction in the M and resolving not to go there again.
Thanks for the insight! This is my H's feeling I think.
A difficult topic and not an easy one to just let go of. I find Betsey's questions and Pen's observations very useful – could be extended to many other ‘issues’ in our journeys.
If I understand the assumption here, it is if you knew the "why." then you would somehow feel more secure in being able to recognize any early warning sign. Or better yet, ensure that none of the 'why criteria' ever surface again in this millennium – and that “the spouse” would be contributing to the security of the M by being able to tell you the “why” the a. happened – taking all active steps to avoid those whys again.
I liked Betsey’s questions – but I’d ask you one further:
- What would you be doing differently if you knew the why?
- And perhaps more importantly, what do you believe you would be feeling differently if you knew the why? (Particularly in regards to Betsey’s questions)
I think we seize on the “why” question as some sort of security blanket, as if getting that one elusive piece of the puzzle will help everything come together, and we can R-E-L-A-X, because we can get it all under control. We know the why’s, so we fortify our M by ensuring they no longer creep in.
But as Pen points out, the “why” in this particular case may have no bearing on any future situation. Ugh, I know – but it is worth letting this sink in. Seeking the ‘why’ may not be the insurance card you’re really looking for.
Go back to the “what would you be doing differently” question – and ask: what is really keeping you from doing this? Is it fear? Is it adherence to the thought that without the “why” I can’t complete the picture, and therefore can never quite feel secure? I also guess that part of it is wanting H. to do some of that processing, hoping he will do his share in the protection of the M. My guess is that he probably does, just not in the manner or ‘language’ you would use or understand. Just because he seems to avoid it with you, doesn’t mean he’s avoiding it within himself.
Oh none of this easy – I just find it useful to ask myself ‘why’ I am seeking a particular bit of elusive information, and what would I really do with it if I got it. Then I ask if I can’t just decide to behave as if I had the information I thought I so desperately needed anyways. Or if I can’t get it, what can I do to move ahead in a positive manner anyways – trying desperately not to cling to some assumption that makes me stuck somewhere. As you know, I’m a big fan of questions – and I find that the more I ask of myself, the more I uncover and find that there really is very little I need to know from outside myself.
And still I know the hardest words for me to embrace have been: let it go.
Wow, wow, wow! Just look at the insight that awaits dear Slowly when she logs back in!
Pen, your insight is incredible--and not just for Slowly's sitch or affairs. Life in general.
But H2H started something that is a really effective reminder:
Quote: Seeking the ‘why’ may not be the insurance card you’re really looking for.
Yes, because as Pen elaborated, we do things for a variety of reasons, right? The more complex the problem, the more reasons enter the equation.
That being said, I like this:
Quote: Go back to the “what would you be doing differently” question – and ask: what is really keeping you from doing this? Is it fear? Is it adherence to the thought that without the “why” I can’t complete the picture, and therefore can never quite feel secure? I also guess that part of it is wanting H. to do some of that processing, hoping he will do his share in the protection of the M. My guess is that he probably does, just not in the manner or ‘language’ you would use or understand. Just because he seems to avoid it with you, doesn’t mean he’s avoiding it within himself.
Excellent! Others rarely do processing in our style. I mean, my friends here sure have one up on my other friends as to how I tick, but even so, we are all wired differently.
Doggone it, H2H, your comment made my day!
Quote: As you know, I’m a big fan of questions – and I find that the more I ask of myself, the more I uncover and find that there really is very little I need to know from outside myself.
Now, see the big difference from a year ago? I'm so proud of you!
I've learned to embrace the questions: they are the answers, Slowly. You will never, ever eradicate them from your ever increasing list. Now that I've thoroughly depressed you, what are you doing to GAL and move yourself forward with joy and less contemplation?
Slowly, I'm offering you a big hug, because you've started a dialogue that is important enough to keep addressing. Not just for you, but for all of us. You're a wise and insightful lady. (H2H, I love you too! And your questions more!)
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
How can I possibly feel alone with so much support here? You all are the best antidote to flagging PMA, I must say.
Well, it has been a busy afternoon here too, furniture guys came and did their stuff, and I'm utterly delighted with the new set-up. NG happened to call while they were here, and was of course curious about the additional noise in the house, I just told him it is a surprise So yes, he has entered into the spirit of the game, and is texting me guesses every few minutes. Tomorrow nite should be interesting.
I promise I will respond to all your observations, you know I need my 'processing time' away from the boards, right But something I read earlier has been playing on my mind all afternoon, and I believe for me, the issues of 'why' are wrapped up in just what I expect of NG, of myself and of our relationship. Here's what Ellie had to say to zbaby44
Quote: I'm reminded of a friend of my H's - let's call him M. Birthdays really matter to M - but his wife is Swedish and comes from a rather emotionally cold family with some rigid ideas - one of which apparently is that birthday celebrations are for wimps.
It bothered M that his W didn't make a big deal of his birthday. One year H and M happened to be on a ski trip together over M's birthday, and my H baked M a cake. M was so grateful
Now, every year we bake a cake for M on his birthday, and M bakes a cake for my H on his (I bake one for my H too, so we have a LOT of cake!).
My point being - M's wife will probably never understand why M needs to have a birthday cake. But his good friends now meet that need for him, so it is no longer a sore point in his matrriage. In fact, we have fun trying to outdo each other, making our cakes fancier every year!
It's just probably not healthy for any of us to be too dependent on our spouses only for these things.
A moment of truth - I've worked hard to be everything NG could want or need - friend, lover, playmate, companion, financial partner, soulmate, and the list goes on. And was under the (mistaken) belief that those were his goals too, to be everything for me - this goes back to our history - when we met, we were two lost souls who fell into each other.
In reality, we have both grown, and enjoy healthy friendships with many other people. My problem seems to be in not recognising that both he and I have moved on from wanting or needing everything from each other. That it is OK for us to be validated by others. That it is not a threat to our relationship. Or at least, it is a threat only if I let it be one.
My need to explore the minutae of emotions, and to vent, are clearly met by all you folks here. NG is neither ready nor interested in fulfilling this need, and I'm perfectly OK with that. Can I say epiphany? Now, with this filter in place, I'll go back and look at my unresolved issues and seek peace.
I'm promising myself this is my last post before I hit the sack. The old Slowly would have spent the whole night putting away everything that had to be moved to accommodate the construction of the new wardrobe. The new Slowly has taken care of the major inconveniences, and left some for NG tomorrow, just so he feels he had some say in the new set-up. Plus, I need my beauty sleep
In picking the theme for this thread, I was making a conscious effort to ground myself on what was important, to me. Home to me is my heart, my partner, and my environment, in that order. And right now, I'm still struggling to feel welcome in my own heart. Because I find I'm not the person I thought I was. Somewhere along the line, I lost sight of myself, and am now deep in the process of reclaiming the real Slowly. Much of this is simply down to the fact that life can sometimes one can drift from one phase to another without apparently any conscious decision making process in place. There is a huge difference between taking each day as it comes, and making a conscious decision to take each day as it comes. I'm not sure I want to be in a situation again ever when a bomb drops and I had no warning, no internal clicking at all H2H - your question is absolutely pertinent
Quote: Go back to the “what would you be doing differently” question – and ask: what is really keeping you from doing this? Is it fear? Is it adherence to the thought that without the “why” I can’t complete the picture, and therefore can never quite feel secure? I also guess that part of it is wanting H. to do some of that processing, hoping he will do his share in the protection of the M. My guess is that he probably does, just not in the manner or ‘language’ you would use or understand. Just because he seems to avoid it with you, doesn’t mean he’s avoiding it within himself.
Because somewhere in me is a fear that the 'why' may be something I cannot fix, and that if this is a situation where we have a fundamental shift in expectations of each other, then the only way is towards the path of irreconcilable differences. Mind you, I don't rationally believe this to be the case, but since when have emotions been rational
Let me illustrate a recent experience. I find myself enjoying uncomplicated company much more now than I used to before - perhaps it is an ability to see people without preconceived notions, something one acquires with life experience. NG however, remains as intolerant of social gatherings as he has always been. It makes for uncomfortable compromises, which we are both working hard on, but how long can we be accommodating of diverging interests? How do I maintain a healthy relationship and be true to myself? Now, this is not a big deal, as deals go, but I guess its a pattern I'm afraid to explore more fully.
But since you've asked for help, I'm going to assume the former.
Betsey 
– but it is worth letting this sink in. Seeking the ‘why’ may not be the insurance card you’re really looking for. 
So yes, he has entered into the spirit of the game, and is texting me guesses every few minutes. Tomorrow nite should be interesting. 
But something I read earlier has been playing on my mind all afternoon, and I believe for me, the issues of 'why' are wrapped up in just what I expect of NG, of myself and of our relationship. Here's what Ellie had to say to zbaby44 
H2H - your question is absolutely pertinent 