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I aree with you all. The company W works for is very large and that is why im surprised that they did not offer her a CC for all travel realted items. I quizzed her on it and she said they flatly refused and the comment from her boss was "why do you have trouble dealing with your finances?"

I dont like how this smells but I think (from past history) calling her office to inquire about this policy would go very very bad. To the point of W asking for D. She already has stated that she has a difficult time trusting me (she said she felt betrayed by our current financial position).

Im not too sure I really want to start down this path.. yet.

I am going to cancel all joint cards ASAP. That way she can use her own cards and be responsible for her own debt.

I really beleive that currently she is trying to get me to agree to part ways. The comment this morning that escaped me was she said "I think WE have out grown each other". I see this trend of her trying to impose her feelings upon me so that she can justify a split. Im having none of it.

Im not being spiteful but I am standing my ground that I still to this day beleive that if we both work on our M then we can return to a loving caring R, probably even stronger than before.

It almost appears to me that she is resigned to try and give up on US and try to move on. All I can currently do is continue to work on myself (as I told her this morning, I am the only person responsible for making myself happy) and try to deal with this financial mess.

I had an idea to that end. I think I will ask her to do the reseach on her idea of selling the house, find out the costs of legal fees, what we could get for the house, and what we could buy after debt is paid off, and let me look at her findings. Basically not dismissing her suggestion but asking for all the facts to base the decision. I think I will do the same, total up the debt, show the current interest per year staying with the CC balances, and interest relating to a line of credit loan. Also I will have to show her the numbers that relate to how much is being spent per month in repayment through CC's and though a loan. I think I need to be a salesman and sell the idea. I hope that she can do the same.

Any comments on this latest idea? HP do you think this would be following your suggestion (even tho a little modified)?

I hope this goes well, just got to keep the position of strenght and try not to antagonize W in the forthcomming conversation this eve.

May hope spring eternal

ConfuseMe wrote:
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I aree with you all. The company W works for is very large and that is why im surprised that they did not offer her a CC for all travel realted items. I quizzed her on it and she said they flatly refused and the comment from her boss was "why do you have trouble dealing with your finances?"

I dont like how this smells but I think (from past history) calling her office to inquire about this policy would go very very bad. To the point of W asking for D. She already has stated that she has a difficult time trusting me (she said she felt betrayed by our current financial position).
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I want to step off my anonymous seat here for a minute, and tell you something that your buddy might say to you.

CM, that is the lamest piece of redirection I have ever seen in my life. Not only is she blaming her company's purportedly incorrect use of use of YOUR funds, but she will divorce you if you interfere in her game. Are you really that gullible?

I have to tell you what my biggest suspicion is, that she is flying around with her boss, on YOUR dime, doing things that they shouldn't be doing.

If her company is really doing this, then you and a lawyer have a very good chance of getting very well to do. If they are not, and she is doing her boss, then you still have some serious laws on your side. CM, old buddy, you need to cut the cards up and find yourself a fancy lawyer.

Back to my normal self now.

I really do wish you all the best, CofuseMe.
-NOPkins-

I hear ya, beleive me Loud and clear. All of her trips have not been with her boss. Maybe 1/8th have been so I dont want to jump to this conclusion yet. But beleive me if I do find evidence to the contrary, belive you me I will most definitely follow up on it.

I am conducting my "investigations" but I am being very careful and trying to insure that I dont make a bad situation worse.

Let me put it to you this way, if you were a WAS and you found out that your spouse was suspicious of you and going behind your back to prove those suspisions, do you think that would cement the D proceedings? I think so.

I need to ensure that that is not the case before I jump to any conclusions. But dont get me wrong, I am most definitely cleaning up the financial situation and ripping up all cards (just one) that are joint. She can keep all of her cards all she likes.

This I see as being kind with a backdrop of strength.

May the man of steel / tin foil be victorious in this his most dangerous battle.

Hi, CM.

quote:
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Let me put it to you this way, if you were a WAS and you found out that your spouse was suspicious of you and going behind your back to prove those suspisions, do you think that would cement the D proceedings? I think so.
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If she is innocent, maybe it would upset her, but if your relationship were in good shape, that wouldn't be such a big deal. If on the other hand, you do uncover proof, then she is going to ticked in the extreme anyway. I will also tell you that a threat of divorce is a heck of lot easier to make than actually doing it.

All I can tell you is not to live in fear, and that it is a damn shame that spouses can put each other in places where it becomes necessary to snoop.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

Here's my latest update.

Had a convo with W last nite, trying to explain the financial situation and what I would like to do about it. I had a nice paper with the interest savings between CC and Line of Credit, showed the savings on monthly payments taken from the last two months. This was not met favourably. I again asked W for a suggested course of action. She again repeated that she thinks we should sell the house. I agreed and said please sell me on the idea, please work up all the numbers and sell me on the idea. This again was not met favourably.

She then said that we need to figure out what WE are doing before we figure out what to do about finances (here we go).

The conversation started heated but seemed to calm down as it went on. I suggested that we each take five minutes and say what we had to say without the other interrupting. Initially this was fine but as W spoke she was asking pointed questions that she was asking expecting me to answer, initially I said nothing until she made it clear (said fine and started to leave).

The just of what she was telling me is that I had been talking about changes for so long but she failed to see any changes. I asked her if I was not cleaning up the house more often and helping out with keeping it clean? Also I asked if my relationship with our kids wasnt better? On both she agreed begrugingly.

She told me that she was hanging on by her finger nails and asked the hard question "at what point can I say this is enough". She told me that at some point in the past few years she had given up on our R. She said that "Ive heard you say so many times that your going to change or that you are changing, that I dont beleive it anymore".

I admitted that in the past (up to about 7 mnths ago) I had said those things and didnt follow through and apologized for that, and that I understood that it would be understandably difficult for her to beleive me when I tell her this.

I repeated that I was not going to give up on the marrage and would do all that I could to keep our family togeather. The response was "sure, what I hear is that you are telling me I dont care how many ppl I make miserable I am going to keep this marrage togeather".

I know she was looking for me to agree to call it quits but I cannot and will not do that. Maybe Im wrong, but I dont think I should make it easy for her to leave.

She also talked about what it would be like if we did split and how it would be with the kids. I told her I hated talking about that because talking about it is almost like planning to follow through on it. Almost like making a plan.

She told me that she was pretty much planning on taking action (never said the D word or Sepp word) after the school year was up so as to least impact our eldest. I think she beleives that I will roll over and let her take the kids away from their home without a fight. I never said anything to let her know that is what I feel.

After alot of silence and repeating of the "how much is enough" question, I asked her if she would do one thing, I asked her if she would listen to the KLA cd's and do the workbook that came with it. She agreed. I dont know if she will give this an honest listen or if she will simply go through the motions to say that she completed the task.

I did ask her again a question about what exactly LOVE meant to her. Based on the ILUBNILWY statement. She told me that hse felt that it means that you care for some one and that you care what heppens to them. She returned the question to me. My response was that I felt LOVE is giving to someone simply because you know it is what they need AND expecting absolutely nothing in return, I told her that that is where I have fallen on my face many times in the past. I told her that the ultimate show of love is the sacrifice that Jesus made for us. To give your life for people you dont know and to expect absolutely nothing in return. I never got much reaction from those statements.

She also started to give me alot of the freudian grabage (she saw her thearapist yesterday afternoon) about we are what our culture brings us up as. I explained to her that that may be the starting point but we as humans can make the choice to depart from that. I explained to her that I am much closer and spend much more time with my kids than my father ever did.

We discussed going up to her parents house for Easter, (the kids love going to the farm), she told me she didnt look forward to seing her family, and really didnt want me there either. I dont think I should stay home and do nothing. I feel like that would make it too easy for her to start living a sepparate life. Any suggestions on this one? I did throw out the offer that I would take the kids to her parents house and that she could stay home. I got a rather strange look and the answer was "no I dont think so".

Im very frustrated and heart broken that my W and partner is planning her exit and really shows no hope of anything ever getting any better. Its like she has closed the door, and threw a few pad locks on it to ensure it never gets opened again.

I know all I can really do is try to show her love and respect as much as possible and hope that somehow she will join back into our R.

Bruised and battered man of steel / tin foil.. Some one snuck some kryptonite into my cape

(((CM)))
When your W runs through her bag of tricks and finds you still there being her man of steel, she just may give up the notion of leaving. You are in my prayers.

Thanks for the words of encouragement and the hugs. I really do appreciate them especially in this dark time.

I have shifted my attitued towards her a little and am trying what I have read so many times on other posts. Im showing her as much love as I can without being "grabby" and "needy".

I need to be sure not to give her any excuse that she can use against me into saying that I made her leave.

I pray to god that she will stay but I also know that if she has decided to leave there is really nothing I can do to change her mind. All I can do is continue to act "as if" and to continue to work on myself.

May the Steel / tin / loving attitude be accepted at its face value.

CM wrote:
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We discussed going up to her parents house for Easter, (the kids love going to the farm), she told me she didnt look forward to seing her family, and really didnt want me there either. I dont think I should stay home and do nothing. I feel like that would make it too easy for her to start living a sepparate life. Any suggestions on this one? I did throw out the offer that I would take the kids to her parents house and that she could stay home. I got a rather strange look and the answer was "no I dont think so".
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If it is going to be a family outing, then you should be included. They are your children, and she is your wife. Don't let her separate you from your children when you have the capacity to be with them.

I suggest that you go with the family. Put on a good face. Do it for your kids. They deserve to have both parents. If she attempts to engage you in a negative way, then you walk the high ground. No arguments, no hate, no anger. Protect your children.

Let me tell you something. I intend no disrespect toward you or your wife. It is very difficult in any marriage where there are children and unhappy spouses, or another person involved, to maintain an atmosphere where the children are unaffected. Children are often 'poisoned' toward one spouse or the other unintentionally as a result of the tension between the spouses, and sometimes, children are intentionally used as pawns in a tug-of-war between parents. Don't let this happen in your relationship.

If your wife is 'not firing on all thrusters' due to an outside involvement or for whatever reason, then it is your duty and responsibility to be a hero for your children, a champion for THEIR cause.

All the best,
-NOPkins-

NOP Wrote:
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If it is going to be a family outing, then you should be included. They are your children, and she is your wife. Don't let her separate you from your children when you have the capacity to be with them.
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Agree 100% with you. I did say that to W and let her know that I felt that I should be there to share with the kids on Easter. She agreed and we went up. W is the youngest of 8 and her family is very large and very loving. I had a great time there. I had decided that I would be the person that I was when I first met them. Fun loving, helpful and made a large effort to have conversations with them (this is difficult as they are mostly farmers and I have a tough time finding things to talk about).

W was seething all weekend. On the drive hom I thanked her for allowing me to come "up". I could tell that she was upset and asked her the usual question "Everything ok?" Her response was "No but there is nothing I can do about it anyways". I told her that if there is anything you want to talk about im here if not that is fine too. THis opened her up (it usually does). W told me she thought I was being two faced and acting holyier than tho, I informed her that I was simply trying to be the person I am in my heart before all the crap covered up all my good attributes. I also told her that I had enoumouse respect for her family and the hardships that they endure on a daily basis. This seemed to diffuse things.

NOP wrote:
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Let me tell you something. I intend no disrespect toward you or your wife. It is very difficult in any marriage where there are children and unhappy spouses, or another person involved, to maintain an atmosphere where the children are unaffected. Children are often 'poisoned' toward one spouse or the other unintentionally as a result of the tension between the spouses, and sometimes, children are intentionally used as pawns in a tug-of-war between parents. Don't let this happen in your relationship.
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Your right on the money here. In the above conversation I expressed to W that I didnt appreciate anyone trying to take my kids away. She told me that no one was trying to do that. I told her that her actions seemed to make it look that way. I told her that it seemed every time I made an extra effort to connect with one of my two D's she would be there right after trying to do the same with the same D. I told her that I felt that was hurtful and I would not stand for it. I told her that this may not be her intention and right or wrong that is how she comes across.

After this convo she seemed a little diffused and more amiable (small miracle, Who knows maybe she is beginning ti hear what I am saying). But returned to the same distant person once we got home (Two hours later). I have to take this as a small victory that I was able to talk to her in a way that seemed to make sense to her and calm her down (small steps are easier to see).

I find it rather interesting how the actions that she has and continues to complain about in me is exactly what she is displaying lately. Angry, distant, hurtful etc. I almost wish I could hold up a mirror so she could see herself. I dont think she would like what she would see.

Oh well, I have finally come to the point of understanding that there is really nothing I can do to change her attitude. All I can do is be the fun loving, caring person I was. If she wants to join me and rebuild this family then that would be wonderful, if not that is her choice to make.

Thanks for your input. As usual you seem to be right on the mark (for the most part )

Small vent here.. sorry.

Why is is women cant seem to ask for what it is they want? Why is it that men are expected to instintively know what it is that they want and when exactly it is that they want it? and god forbid they men ever ask the question cause then all hell breaks loose.

Can anyone shed any light on this subject.. Please