Back to the LDH business at hand. Am I understanding properly that I should not give W all of the space she requested, and to try initiating? I would love to ML, but my somewhat recent advances have met with rejection. I don't know if W subconciously wants me to feel some of her pain, or if she is genuinely uninterested. I don't want to chase her away, and since I moved to the spare room, it has become an even lonlier place. Before I moved, she was WAY over on her side of the bed. I would put my arm on her side, after she fell asleep, but she often shrugged it off. I don't want her to feel like I am putting on an act, I really do want her. It has been 2 months, and before that it was two months! The first two were after she dropped the bomb. I was mad she waited until her pain turned venemous, and she was just realizing that she didn't love me anymore. We ML on Christmas day, and that night she became violently ill with some sort of stomach virus or food poisoning. That was it, no more ML. I have to ask if I want a hug, etc. I have forced myself to step back as per the DB & DR books. I quit reading SSM because it seemed pointless untill we get beyond our current holding pattern. Am I doing more of same with this step back? Will W see my advances as too little too late? Some of you SSW's have indicated that in my sitch I should make advances, but were you ever really ready to run? She has one foot out the door, (well not really, she has indicated that she will expect me to leave) I really really really don't want to screw this up any worse than I already have. I found my soulmate, but now I'm losing her.
Whose idea was it that you move to the spare room? It's really hard to be close sleeping w/a wall between you literally...I would suggest remedying that situation ASAP.
Why do you feel you have to ask if you want a hug. If you want a hug, give her a hug...don't ask, just do it. From my perspective...when I was really hurting about a year ago, it would have irritated me if my H asked me for a hug rather than just acting on impulse and giving me one.
If you feel a desire for her, to kiss her, to hug her, to cuddle with her...I say go for it! You can't get rid of that wall if you have all that space between the two of you now can you?
If you have thoughts about her, tell her. Honey, I was thinking about you today, and damn I wanted you so bad at that moment!" I would have killed to hear something like that...still would for that matter LOL. If you have that stuff rattling around in your head let it out.
One of the things an HDW feels frustrated with is the fact that we feel we have to drag things like this out of our H's...we want them to spontaneously tell/show us these things...that makes us feel desireable/sexy/attractive etc.
Hi GEL First of all, THANK YOU for sending me to this thread!!!!!! I moved into the spare room in despaeration, to take the wind out of her sails, after she stated that she was ready to run, and was discussing a trial sep as per her C's rec. She has repeatedly said that she needs space. I wasn't sure if it was a good idea, but the pain of laying so lose to her, and her not wanting my touch, was becomming unbearable, and led to many sleepless nights. It certainly made me realize what she has been dealing with for a long time.
I wanted to act, I WANT HER, but I was following the non pursuit mantra religiously. If I had read these threads earlier, I am certain I would not have moved out of the bedroom.
The reason I feel like I need to ask for the hugs is twofold, one is the DB mantra that I was following, the second is the fact that she keeps her distance. W has sort of laughed at me once for asking for a hug. When I hugged her without asking, she seemed distant and hesitated. She is normally a very expressive person. We recently saw an old friend at a concert, and after her hug he commented that she gives the best hugs... I suppose she reserve those for people on her good list.
I am not going to take the DB thing so literally any more, after realizing that is the more of the same that needs to change. I am sooooo glad that you sent me to these threads from the SSW thread. This has been a serious eye opener. W has one foot out the door, and my current actions aren't really helping matters. In my thread, How to discuss suspected affair I have been told that my move was a good thing, but you are telling me otherwise, and I tend to believe you. You certainly are seeing things from my W's point of view. Beleive me, this stuff is rattling around in my head. I used to keep it there, but I see what it has done to W. It kills me to realize the pain I have caused her. Thanks for your perspective regarding my foolish idea.
W called as I typed this, to tell me it would be a late night for her, to eat without her. Tomorrow she leaves early to work for a bit before Yoga. She won't let me help her, despite her busy schedule. She is now gone for twelve to fourteen hours a day. When she gets home, she eats dinner and promptly falls asleep. She is working the same load as in the past, but her 4 hours of phone calls per day seems to slow her down a bit. It is obvious that she is using her business to avoid me. I have been honest with her from day one, and I believe she is being honest with me. I am just having a hard time dealing with her 180. Before, she always wanted me. Now she has no desire for me at all.
I am going to reread the threads, glean all the nuggets of knowledge that I can, and hope to distill some of that knowledge into action this weekend I know that she still loves me, or at least still cares about me, or she would have already left me. I am hopeful that I can win back her heart and keep her satisfied.
I'm glad you found the thread useful Anything I can do that will help from my SSW perspective I'm willing to throw your way.
Divorce Busting does definitely have some good ideas in it. But I'm learning that not everything works in it as far as the SSW goes. All too often the HD person in the relationship that gets sooo frustrated just wants their SO to spontaneously show them affection.
We don't want to have to drag this out of our SO or try to interperet very subtle shows of desire that can be mistaken for affection you might show a friend. The SSH's have expressed these same wants/needs.
I think you are right that she's using her "schedule" to avoid you though. I would really suggest you asking her out on a "date", just like you used to do when you dated. This is something that tends to go by the wayside when people get married and find themselves a year or two (or much more) down the line.
The things we did when we were dating are often what attracted us to each other to begin with...and for some reason we tend to stop doing those things after we marry. Why? I don't know! LOL But we do. But it's important to maintain those things that our SO initially found attractive in us to begin with...dinners, movies, walks in the park, holding hands on the couch, long loving looks across a room...you remember.
Thanks for the tips GEL, W is still working, and my brain is full from reading the Five Love Languages book. My brain was already full from reading DB, DR, Loving Each Other, How to Survive the Loss of a Love, Why Your life Sucks, and half of SSM. I suppose I have been reading so much to try to find ways to get through to W that I know how serious this is. With all my extra spare time while she is gone, it has kept me from going insane (I think). The trouble is, now I have all of these half digested new ideas in my head, and I actually acted on some of them, like moving to the spare room. I suppose I could claim that I have a serious back ache form the crummy spare mattress (truth) I could also say that I miss her and want her so much that I couldn't spend another night in the spare room. Or I could just go to bed in our room tonight before she gets home and not say anything.
One of my big fears is that she isn't really thinking things through for herself. Since she is on the phone for four hours almost evryday (last phone bills, I'm not snooping) How can she be thinking about things on her own. I know that her dad is down on me, and always has been. Her mom likes me a little because I am sweet and loveable and I get along with all of her siblings (she is middle of six) But most of her conversations were with OM who just left his wife of 17 years (moved out on Sunday) I'll call him Mr. Bipolar.
W is so anapproachable, she has scoffed at my date suggestions. She is gone every day of the week, working 5 days, sometimes Sat. morning, then Yoga on Sat. , visits granny on Sunday. So, I get less than twelve hours a week, (way less) to make a good impression. I will continue to ask her for dates. The closest I have gotten so far is a rousing game of Rummikub! I will offer to visit Granny with her on Sunday, and then maybe we can catch a movie. Our dating during courtship consisted of staying up all night working on projects in Art school, or kayaking. All of the creeks are frozen, along with my chances of getting through to her.
How close to the door were you at the worst? She is very close (to asking me to leave but that won't happen) I need to figure out some ways to convince her to be receptive to me again. This morning she told me she feels scarred. I know about scars, and the corresponding numbness. I wonder how I can convince her to feel again. I wonder if I can convince her to feel again. She says that she is sorry for hurting me. I know she is, but I think a part of her wants to hurt me.
As far as initial attractoin is concerned, I am sure that I exuded more confidence when we met, before my business failed, depression set in, and she made it clear that I wasn't meeting her needs. The trouble is, she waited until the love died to make that point clear. She internalized and withdrew over the course of several years, and failed to answer when I asked what was wrong and why she seemed so distant.
I don't mean to be a thread hog, so I will be brief. I just read GEL's mention of walks on their property, and a light went on over my head. W & I recently took a walk that turned into a very good day (it was more of a slog, as the snow is very deep, and more so now) I will try to get W out for a walk on Sunday morning, maybe convince her to try out the snowshoes I got her for Christmas. On the rare ocaisons that she is home, she looks out the windows wistfully. We have a nice piece of land, and she is a bird fan. I will spend tomorrow making a bluebird house, something we have been meaning to do for a while. It will fill my need to do something, and will make her want to stick around to see the baby bluebirds
There you go! That's a great idea! :-) It's something you both have an interest in, something you would both enjoy. And guess what? It's quality time .... together!
To respond to something in the post before this of yours...you stated that your W waited to let you know there was a problem. I can speak from my own experience on this. I didn't wait...I kept telling, talking, and trying to get my H to see there was a problem...but nothing got through. It's my guess she didn't wait until the last minute...but you finally "got it" when something drastic happened.
How close was I to actually being a WAW? Well lets see...I had someone who was VERY interested in me, made it quite clear that he wanted to take my H's place in my life (no I didn't have an affair of any kind...this is just someone who wanted to have a R w/me and was vey blunt about it). So if I wanted a replacement for him, there was one available (no, I wouldn't have done that...I'd have preferred to be on my own). I have my own job, so I didn't need to rely on him for money (I'm here because I choose to be, not because I feel I have to be.) I was deeply hurt to the point that I cried daily, my self esteem was shot to hell, and if it wasn't for my son I would have used my job to avoid coming home. On top of that...I was checking out rental properties during my lunch breaks. In all honesty, I was gearing up to move out...because I knew I couldn't afford our home on my own. I guess you could say I was VERY near to leaving w/my son.
So you might ask next what woke my H up. Well believe it or not we had gone away for the weekend...it was our anniversary. We went out that first evening to a karaoke bar to try to have some fun (I'm a bit of a ham). I don't remember exactly what my H said now...but it had something to do with us and the future. I had previously talked to him about our situation and was constantly assured he would "fix the problem"..whatever that meant.
He had tried herbal supplements, and did finally go get a complete physical. When everything came back very normal I was stymied. It was as if in his mind this was all my problem now. He knew I was unhappy but the Dr's told him he was normal. I had mentioned counseling to him before which he always kind of side-stepped. This particular evening I took his comment about the future and told him that if we didn't get counseling we wouldn't be having another anniversary. His response to me was "we can't afford that" (after spending 2K on artwork that same day)....so I turned around looked him dead seriously in the eyes and said "can you afford not to? Because I will not continue to live this way if we don't get help. I'm too young to live celibate."
Interestingly enough we did still end up having a fairly fun evening. But I guess what I said, or how I said it, or the look on my face finally got through to him that I was VERY serious. Approximately 2-weeks later we had our 1st counseling appt. FYI, he finally gave in on counseling May 04.
He gave in right when I was about to give up. Because he did give in I felt I owed our R the chance to see what would happen.
That gives you some background on me now doesn't it? LOL.
--------after spending 2K on artwork that same day-------- My kind of people, being an artist myself!!!!!
My W is hurt that badly as well. Before I blamed it on no K's, crappy rental house, stress of building, failure of business, etc, now it is clear that rejection is the biggest hurdle we face. If she is unwilling to forgive the past and let me back into her heart, I'm SOL. I am making decent $$ now, I am getting a real job, and ditching my artist dream. It is after I gave up the business and switched to ebay this summer that W really started to drift away. She dropped the bomb around mid Nov. She says she feels taken advantage of, like she did it all. My being a mildly messy LDH followed by art failure were tough pills to swallow, and she finally saw the big picture (her words). I foolishly pointed out that she never told me she loved me anymore, and that helped her realize that she really didn't love me anymore (her words), and she has said more than once that she doesn't think she can get it back. No energy left to invest.
How to I work my way back into the bedroom, now that I let myself out? it seems W & righty have gone and left me alone.
Just a quick comment on doing things like 180's and GAL from DBing. These are very good suggestions and I think they have specific applications in the case of the SSM. Moving out of the BR probably seemed like a 180 from where you were. OTOH - your R was so devoid of touch and proximity that it was actually more of the same. I agree about hugging W if you feel it - DON'T ASK. Don't talk about "date nights" as such but drag W out at every possible opportunity for walks or to choose items for your house/yard - whatever spells "together". Touch her at every opportunity - the kind she doesn't have time to talk about - a quick touch of her shoulder to ask a question, brush her hair from her eyes, smack her on the *ss as she passes. See how these things play out. Plan on her acting weird about it.
I would also do some of the DB stuff about "acting mysterious" and GAL - find some things to nurture yourself, specifically ask her to stay home and take care of things a night or two during the week while you go somewhere that you don't tell her all the details about - maybe a networking meeting for jobseekers?
Thanks for the pointers. This morning, W was at the sink, I slipped behind her, gave her a bear hug and kissed her neck repeatedly. She clamped down on my arms with her elbows, (in a good way) which was more than expected, considering she was cutting a grapefruit. After that, she showered, and I snuck another big back hug & neck kiss before she left, in case she forgot about me while she was in the shower. I knew better than to ask if she wanted company in the shower, as she was running late.
I will try to act mysterious, and GAL. I am going to a poetry reading next week, and will join the local gym, so I can start raquetball again. I am not the mysterious type, I suppose, as I always shared everything with W. She is beyond mysterious at this point, bordering on cryptic. As far as her staying home to hold down the fort, sadly we are still childless, and we have an independent cat, so I can go when and where I want. Considering that she is never home before 8:30, and last night 12:00, it is tough to be mysterious if I am home before her. I will keep up the contact (it feels good )and hope to take it beyond the simple touch at some point.
I screwed up on the bedroom deal, OOPS! So now I need to figure out how to get back in there. I played the crappy bed card yesterday, but I was already in the crappy bed when she got home. Maybe a trip to the chiro will convince her to share the good bed again. I am checking this thread religiously, and will wait for approval before trying any crazy ideas again
I know that she still loves me, or at least still cares about me, or she would have already left me. I am hopeful that I can win back her heart and keep her satisfied. 
Anything I can do that will help from my SSW perspective I'm willing to throw your way.
