Quote: I'll throw that one out there to you guys - all that time that you chose other things over ML to your wife and she complained periodically about it - did you believe that you were doing things to communicate desire to her or did you know that you weren't?
Karen- It’s really all a matter of perspective. I used to occasionally get drunk and mushy and complimentary to my wife. This used to infuriate her. She would say “How come you only tell me I’m beautiful when you’re drunk?” To which I would reply “People are always at their most honest when they are drunk”
Her perspective was definitely that I did not demonstrate any desire for her. My perspective was that she knows how I feel about her. I agreed to marry her, didn’t I?
In essence, I did not take the time/ feel the need/ realize the significance of stepping into her shoes and seeing her perspective. I have no idea why. Again, the only explanation I can offer is that I was self centered.
KEB is absolutely right. Now that I am being threatened with losing her, I think about my wife all day long. I desire her like I have desired no other woman before. I would ML to her twice a day every day if she would let me. Passionate kisses and sucking of toes. The whole nine yards.
So, even though I now recognize the errors of my ways, at the time, I did a good enough job of communicating my desires.
I think another issue I never acknowledged was my parents as role models. They’ve been married for almost 40 years. They are absolutely committed to each other. I know they love each other. But they have never been affectionate or complimentary in front of me. I think I just, without thinking through the issue, assumed that this was how married people acted. My wife saw things differently.
Unfortunately, we never took the time discuss our different expectations of how married people act toward each other. We both made assumptions, and acted on those assumptions.
Maybe some communication regarding expectations and beliefs could help. I’m sure my wife would tell you she had the same discussions with me that you have had with your husband. Unless he explicitly tells you he wants a divorce, I think it’s safe to say he wants to stay married to you. You just need to make him understand that he is facing a very real risk that he will be subjected to divorce if he doesn’t get with the program.
It sucks, but the guy needs to BELIEVE that something bad is going to happen soon before he’ll examine things outside his comfort zone. I didn’t think any of this was a big deal until my wife told me she wanted to leave. Then I believed her and developed a deep regret for having not acted sooner.
Fixit, You dudes are so helpful to us ladies, I gotta tell you.
I have a question:
I am going to assume that you never lost your desire for your wife.
During the time of sexual famine in your household, did you demonstrate your desire to your wife in ANY way at all?
How did she receive it?
Did you think you were showing desire in a quantity that was acceptable?
Do you mind spelling out specifically some of the ways you did it then, and how you do it now?
My reason for this interrogation is that I'm afraid I miss many of my husband's signals because I am looking for something more aggressive. He might feel that an extended peck is him acting horny. Me......I don't know...I think it's sweet and I definitely LIKE it but I don't know if I consider it horny. I do now because I believe that is how he demonstrates his horniness but it took me a long time to recognize it because I was too busy looking for more traditional signs.
Yes HP, that is precisely what I am interested in. Here is something only you can appreciate. The other weekend I missed church with H - I had to set up a baby shower. The weekend before that I was helping my daughter in law and her mother - her mother had a problematic mammogram just 2 mos after her sister died of breast cancer and needed help in telling her daughter. We spent all of mass in the car talking in the parking lot of the church. Anyway, so I missed mass with H twice. On Monday night, he said how much he had missed me in church and how he hadn't liked being there alone. As crazy as it sounds he said this with a lot of emotion in his voice and this was a "romantic" thing to him. I'll bet I could have parlayed that into ML. I realized that in retrospect. Even still, I have ceased wanting to use those moments to ML because I am still holding out for actual displays of something that I recognize as desire.
Don't intend to hijack Fixit and KEB but this is an example of the kind of stuff that HP and I are talking about. Sometimes preoccupied, anxious H's send some little signals that are hard to get. Further, the more tiny and axiety laden those signals are the harder it is to tap into our own desire.
What I want to know is: were you wanting to ML to your W, but didn't/couldn't ask, or was she not getting the message? IOW, was it lack of desire or lack of effective communication?
HP-- Coming from the current perspective, it's hard to say whether or not I ever lost desire for my wife. In my current agitated state, I would say NEVER!
But, there were always small gestures. I'd pat her on the butt. I'd let her catch me sneaking peaks while she got ready in the morning (one of my favorite things because she was so unguarded). I'd hold her longer than necessary when we hugged. There are probably more...sometimes I didn't even realize what they meant but if they were well received, then I would start getting more in the mood.
As for being an acceptable quantity, it seemed that way to me...but, based on the current state of my M, it obviously wasn't enough.
As for now, I am blatant about wanting her. I tell her out-right that I'm interested. I am much more physical in my pursuit. I press against her more when I hug her, etc.
Remember though, she doesn't want anything to do with me in that way right now!
Thanks for listing those things. I believe my H has done those as well in the past...but that all too often, in my perspective, simply wasn't received as "desire". I guess because those signals are just waaaaaaaay too subtle.
For me hugging your H or W is just something you do, just because...it doesn't denote "desire" from an HDW perspective. I've often wondered if that's what he was doing (in retrospect) but at the time lemme tell ya....it was COMPLETELY missed.
Same goes for sneaking a peek too. For me...I might catch him doing that, but then think...sure you'll look at me...but you won't touch me.
And....my H would also occasionally slap me on the butt...but you know what? Football players get slapped on the ass all the time...so did I when playing sports (in that "go get em!" kind of a way). So for me that was more interpreted as a sign of affection too than anything else.
See what I mean.....too subtle!
My H now will come up and nibble on my neck a bit, this is something I've told him makes me wobbly in the knees...that, works much better! That at least is something a man would do to his W...not anyone else.
1) What could your wive's have done short of actually leaving you that would have inspired you to the level of desire you are currently experiencing.
2) If you get your wives back and they do every kinky thing on your back list of fantasies, what will keep you from losing interest again once you run out of novelties? What will keep you from maybe slipping back into your old "hobby" on a day a year from now when you're feeling kind of bored or stressed and maybe just a little peeved at your wife?
I ask these questions because I've noticed that in my sich every time I mention leaving or seeing other men my H gets horny. OTOH on the occasions that I most want sex and initiate he is most likely to reject me. This makes me think that the basic problem is that my H only wants what he can't get and this leaves me wondering why I should want to stay in a relationship with a man who doesn't want me when I want him. As long as this is true, I will never have the sex life that I desire which would be two people coming together in mutual lust/love on a regular basis.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: 1) What could your wive's have done short of actually leaving you that would have inspired you to the level of desire you are currently experiencing.
Before this, I'm not sure what she could have done. (DISCLAIMER: I'm just thinking outloud here.) Maybe she could have been more direct...less passive-aggressive herself. In my case, she could have offered some of the things I always wanted (oral, public S, etc.) Again, just thinking out loud. But, honestly, it took HARD action to make me "wake-up" to the reality of my behavior.
Quote: 2) If you get your wives back and they do every kinky thing on your back list of fantasies, what will keep you from losing interest again once you run out of novelties? What will keep you from maybe slipping back into your old "hobby" on a day a year from now when you're feeling kind of bored or stressed and maybe just a little peeved at your wife?
No one can predict the future. But, I can honestly say that I've become SO enlightened in these last several weeks, I can't imagine that I would ever return to my old destructive behaviors. At least if I took a turn in that direction, I would know the resources that are available to help. I'm hoping over the course of this H#LL, we're experiencing, we will learn the art of communication and sharing--HONEST--sharing about our problems. I also know that God whacked me upside the head once to wake me up--I don't ever want to experience it again.
So, there's not clear cut answer. Right now, I'm hoping that through C and the things we're learning, that my W will forgive or at least agree to work on this a TEAM. So, I'm still a LONG way from looking at a year from now. I have my story-board in place for what I want...it just depends on the other actors.
My H has a terrible time showing his desire. I don't get much in that dept. He looks at me when I'm naked but there is NO sign that he is looking at anything he likes or lusts after. It is very business like. Once (pretty recently too) I asked him, while he was looking at my naked body, if he liked what he saw and he said, Huh? OH! Uh, yeah you betcha.
His mind is nowhere near the sexual unless he is certain that this is a Sexual Moment.
This depresses me. I want to be able to inspire him. I want to have a guy who was previously not thinking about sex but something I did was sexy to him and now he is turned on. It seems that he gets turned on when we are in bed, naked, (that's where we have sex so I would expect those thoughts to come then) or if I say something, as in the above example. Sometimes he shows spontaneous signs of desire but they are more along the lines of extended pecks and longish hugs. These could easily be interpreted as loving gestures of affection or something more sexual--it is always up to me to hazard a guess.
Oh well, I think I should wrap up this lil pity party. He has gotten better at verbalizing his lust and I am appreciative of that, at least.
I do so wish that when he looked at me he would see a sexy woman instead of.........freak, I don't know what he sees when he looks at me. The person he lives with. The bare boobies that feed his youngest child. Practical things like that, I'm sure.
Oops, looks like the party's back on.
Honeypot, who is getting to the end of her rope with the lackanookie. If I don't get healthy soon, someone's gonna die.
This seems to be a personality characteristic, ie. some people only want/desire what they can't have. I was wondering the exact same things as you expressed, and I also worry about the dynamics of this in the long run. I thought it was odd that a few weeks ago, my W got horny about 2 hours after I blew up and told I wasn't going to be satisfied with MB and things needed to change. Not a "I guess I better pretend I am for the sake of the R" response either. Go figure. But we went back to the same old shortly after.
