Sorry, KEB, I'm going to have to hijack this thread and get some info to help myself out. Again, we may have been separated at birth because your situation is so similar to mine....
I also took up the “hobby” about six months into our marriage. Mostly, I think we both came home from work tired, and I didn’t have the energy to put a good effort into pleasing her.
I found it was easier to just spend five minutes by myself.
Over time, I’ve just become sort of lazy. Pre-bomb, when we did ML, it was about once a month and was fairly perfunctory. Since the bomb, we have ML once. More on that later.
After the bomb, I tried, unsuccessfully several times to initiate ML. Perhaps my tactic was wrong because I was just asking “Do you want to fool around tonight?” several hours before bed.
I bought SSM because I thought she was LD. Before we were married, she couldn’t get enough, and things were hot. They went downhill fairly quickly after we were married. As I read through the book, I began wondering if I was the LD. Perhaps more accurately, I was the Lazy D spouse. We discussed what had happened, and she agreed, that we need to have a more passionate love life.
She has also had the hobby for some time now. I didn’t know this until a post-bomb discussion, where we discussed that our sex life had become so boring to her, and so much about me coming, that she just wasn’t interested in sex with me any more. I have found I think about having sex with her constantly now that I don’t have the release of the hobby.
I can’t for the life of me explain why I preferred myself to her. She’s beautiful and great in bed (when adequately warmed up). Mostly, my actions, or lack thereof, during our marriage have defied explanation. She says she doesn’t believe that I have loved her for a long time now because of the way I’ve acted towards her. I know that I have loved her, but it makes sense to me that she would see things the way she does. In a way, I’m exactly where I deserve to be, but I’d still like a second chance, now that I’ve learned so much about myself
We ML once, about a month ago, and I tried too hard to create and exciting scene for her. Trying to re-do some of the kinky stuff from the dating days. It wasn’t executed perfectly, and I think she ended up disappointed with the event. She has adamantly refused any offers of sex since then. Not maybe. No.
I have stopped the hobby since the bomb. She has not. She also becomes agitated when I give specifically sexual compliments. She did not like when I told her she had a great butt. She told me it’s been so long since I complimented her that it makes her cringe when I do it now. I can compliment her outfits and makeup. I can also compliment her mothering skills and non-sexual abilities.
She said that since she felt that I didn’t care about her appearance any more, she stopped caring what I thought about her appearance.
My question: would a more persistent and spontaneous “I want you so bad” in bed be something that might work, in light of the fact she’s said she doesn’t want sex from me at all?
My fear is that I feel like I need to strengthen our friendship more before I try for sex. Since she is so convinced that there is no hope for her to ever start to love me again, she doesn’t want to be subjected to boring and perfunctory sex. But I think if we could get back into the habit, it could be passionate again. Kind of a chicken-and-the-egg thing.
Is begging for sex pursuing behavior? Or is it a 180? In the past several years, I never asked more than once or twice a month. And always well in advance of the proposed time of the act. But it seems that if she knows I’m horney for her, it might make her feel sexy again...
Not to mention, my sex drive has gone into overdrive.
weirdest thing... Since this all started, I seem to be developing VERY conservative beliefs. Especially since I've always been such a "civil liberties" type liberal
1) the state should take greater efforts to preserve the sanctity of marriage. It's too easy to quit and walk away.
2) pornography and masturbation are horribly destructive.
3) watching television weakens families.
4) all children deserve to be raised in a traditional nuclear family
5) infidelity should carry criminal penalties
Next thing you know, I'll be supporting the death penalty....
Okay Fixit! Every time you post...our situations become more and more Twilight Zone!! Separated at birth is the only logical explanation!? Were you born with teeth, too? I had two teeth!! I used to say it was because I was born ready to take a bite out of the world. Now, I know it's just because I was destined to be a FREAK! Okay, kidding on that last part...I'm not that much of a freak.
Anyway, read all the post from the ladies here! They provide GREAT insight into the wants, needs and best-of-all, the NO-NO's when it comes to your wife. But, also be prepared for honesty and some not-so-easy questions.
I've been doing more of the 180 type things that seem like pursuit. Talking about the "NEED" for my wife, etc. It isn't getting me what I want but, she has started to appear more receptive to my touches and stuff. I think it was HoneyPot who made it clear that Michele's process is about looking for solutions and acting on the one's that work. That is more important the worrying about the pursuit aspect of things!!
Okay...I've said enough for now. I agree 100% with your conservative ideas above! But, of course, I've always been a conservative!! Okay...so maybe we weren't separated at birth!!
Quote: Every time you post...our situations become more and more Twilight Zone!! Separated at birth is the only logical explanation!?
Maybe we could save some money and our marriages by getting you, me and our wives in group thearapy.
But seriously. I'm so pissed at myself. I've been sitting on the everyman's fantasy wife for five years. and I set in the bathroom by myself....
What the hell was I thinking?!?!
And now that I know my wife is still as horney and kinky as ever, how do I get in on this?
My friends keep saying a divorce would be great. In one person's words: "you can bang strippers every night" But I'd rather f*ck my closet porn-star wife after I tuck in my beautiful daughter.
Maybe hypnosis thearapy to erase her memories from the last several years would work?
I'm hoping the ladies will help me get my foot in the door.
KEB, One thing I discovered is that I chose my H for a reason. Meaning, there was something about his non-pursuit of me (back in the day) that I liked or evidently was intrigued by, that caused me to pursue HIM.
He seemed to me, at the time, a hard nut to crack. I knew that he liked me..even that he liked me a LOT..but he wouldn't make a move. In turn, I made all the moves for him. He seemed like a challenge. I rose to that challenge.
So it is with a lot of regret that I look back and realize that I've been trying to turn him into Aggressive Man. He never WAS that! What am I thinkin?! If I wanted that, then why didn't I go after all the aggressive fellas that were after me?
The flip side of that equation is, of course, that I was quite sexual when he met and married me. So HE knew what he was getting into, as well. For him to expect that to "slow down as we get older" is a big ASSumption on his part. So it appears that we, like a lot of folks, married each other with the assumption that someday our spouse would change into something more palatable to us. This hasn't happened.
My husband has gotten a lot more bold..mostly he has started to return to his former ways in which he was semi-bold with his sexual agenda. I am loving this! I can't say that I have changed all that much, wrt my sex drive slowing down but the rest of me has slowed down..more tame and "soft" and this seems to appeal to him.
So what I wanted to say was that there is a very good chance she will come to the same realization: That she chose you for a reason. She may want you to become aggressive now, but that is not necessarily a fair expectation.
I think, as women, we are attracted to men's strength, their vim and vigor and vitality. A sexually passive man is counterintuitive to what we have been told is "sexy". It would be as if you were married to a gal who was extremely shy or awkward. Only wore head-to-toe flannel and wouldn't let you see her naked. You may find it hard to see her as "sexy" in the traditional sense because that is not what you have been conditioned to see as sexiness. It takes a while to become accustomed to our partners own sense of sexuality and mold our own to fit with theirs. They must do the same to us, of course.
In practical terms, this probably means that you will HAVE to learn how to be more aggressive and assertive with your wife. This is what she wants and needs out of a sexual partner. She will have to learn to chill a bit and to accept that all signs of desire are good--she must ditch the preconceived way she THINKS you should behave and welcome whatever signs of desire you are able to work towards.
Keep at it. Whatever you are doing, you will get her attention. Be as assertive and CLEAR as you can. One thing that my H would do is cloak his language in a way that could mean several things. Instead of saying, "I want you" he will say "I miss you". Now this could mean, I missed you while I was at work, or I want to verb your noun. Who knows! This kept him within his safe harbor called No Stickee Neckee Out and I was confused. Be clear with her. Do not leave any room for misinterpretation. Learn to act on YOUR feelings and not necessarily what she wants to hear or what you think you should be doing--this will only cause resentment. If she doesn't want to hear your lovely and sexy words, oh well it is her loss.
Now. Most importantly.
Why did you think that you were giving more to the R than she was?
1) the state should take greater efforts to preserve the sanctity of marriage. It's too easy to quit and walk away. The state has nothing to do with marital sanctity. Prior to the '70s, when divorce was difficult, Hs would walk away from their families and leave them high and dry. Modern family law is designed to protect the interests of the financially weaker spouse. The state can't make people stay together if they don't want to.
2) pornography and masturbation are horribly destructive. In your sitch, this might be true. But this isn't true for every relationship. Also, re MB, I'd like to hear your opinion on this after you've gone 7+ years without sex.
3) watching television weakens families. What if you are all watching the same show? Sunday @ 7PM we all sit down and watch "America's Funniest Videos". D12 & I now watch the evening news together and discuss world events, which is greatly expanding her world view.
4) all children deserve to be raised in a traditional nuclear family If one of the S's is abusive, kids are better off in a single parent home. And kids in a two parent same-sex household do as well as in a "nuclear family", according to recent studies.
5) infidelity should carry criminal penalties You must be a criminal defense attorney. If this law gets passed you'll have a lot of clients.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
FixitDude, I can tell you that my H's "solution" was the only thing that could have worked with me:
Apologize, say wtf was I thinking, make a promise and then follow through with said promise. (in our case, sex 2x per week)
Along the way, we had lots of issues to wade through, and I'm sure that there will be more in the future.
But the straightforward approach, and him not waiting for my 'permission' to act was what I needed from him. I needed to see that his desire for me was strong enough that he could overcome his own fears and insecurities to act on it. I was sick and tired of making the atmosphere perfect so that he knew the time was "right" and he should initiate. I want him to do it on his own. He does that now, though like I said, it still isn't a perfect system. I still catch him 'watching' me, looking for a sign that it's ok to proceed. Sometimes I give it to him, sometimes I act sadistic and watch him flounder. What can I say, I'm not perfect!
But.....my point is that perhaps you could take the straight up approach: Tell her you have been doing lots of thinking and realized that your approach to the marriage was detrimental and selfish. Basically what you told us earlier...you could tell her that from now on, you will be acting on your true feelings that you have been suppressing this whole time.
Of course this is assuming your wife doesn't have one foot out the door or is seeing someone else.
Basically try something different than what you've been trying--you know, the stuff that got you into this mess in the first place.
And, KEB, look what you stirred up! All these guys are coming out of the woodwork saying, Me too man..
That is so refreshing to read, I gotta hand it to you guys. We women KNOW the LD guys are out there and out there a ton, but trying to convince the rest of the world is like trying to convince people that monkeys can fly.
Anyway, that is what worked for me: an apology, a promise that was fulfilled every week, and more assertive behavior (which I am hoping he continues to work towards but oops! I'm not supposed to form expectations am I?!).
So you and your W are still living in the same house, sleeping in the same bed? Is that correct?
If so, what's her stance on the marriage at this point?
Have you read back on some of our posts to try to get an understanding of what she's been going through? I'm telling you, those of us who posted about how hurt we've been haven't pulled any punches....it's awful and agonizing to be ignored by your H, especially if your a sexual W as I am and as your W sounds to be.
Also, what are the two of you doing currently? Are you working on the M via counseling, on your own between the two of you....or as too many folks do...do nothing because you aren't sure what to do?
