I know that DB'ing requires patience, but I'm beginning to wonder if the LRT is a "cheeseless tunnel" in my sitch. I've been in the LRT since Feb 1, 2005. WAW is still so uncomfortable around me. I "act as if" and am friendly when she is around. D13 & D15 live at home w/me and we get along swimmingly well. WAW rationalizes & projects her behavior to the point where I feel like "choosing my battles wisely" has become my mantra rather than "work on me". WAW has hard feelings that she has admitted to about how well my relationship w/D's is compared to how "alienated" she feels.
On Fri PM @ D15's concert D13, WAW & I sat together. WAS was cold towards me and spoke very little to me. It's hard to act "as if" when WAW ignores me. Never the less I, acted "as if" as best that I could.
On Sat AM WAW, D13, D15 & I walked around the school art show. Today WAW sent an email saying that she felt D's were put in an uncomfortable position and that they surely noticed WAW's discomfort. While at the art show WAW kept her distance from me. D's bounced back and forth between us.
I need a way to break thru the resistance. I've found a website that made a lot of sense to me. It described a WAS has being deluded breaking it down into 4 steps: rationalization, projection, repression and altered memory. My WAW is definitely into rationalization, projection and has admitted to repressing feelings from the past. I'm wondering if DB'ing w/LRT is the right technique to break thru or if something along the lines of an intervention is required?
Has anyone found this to be true?
I also feel that to set a blanket statement of saying that addressing the affair either with WAW or OM will drive them closer together is like a one size fits all solution. Shouldn't we at least test it before making that statement?
I also feel that to set a blanket statement of saying that addressing the affair either with WAW or OM will drive them closer together is like a one size fits all solution.
No more so a blanket statement than saying "WAS delusions are 4 steps: rationalization, projection, repression and altered memory" is it? there are reasons underlying both statements, from what I've read.
BYW, those 4 steps sound about right to me.
Sorry I haven't gotten back to you on your earlier post, I missed that one. From the sound of wife's projection/antagonism, I'd say go kinda dark for a while, see if her anger dissipates in time, and just keep any contact with her positive, no matter what she throws at you. I mean, not even a weird look back. Don't even blink. Don't raise an eyebrow. Don't even make a peep. Just totally physically and verbally ignore any negativity on her part.
NYS: Going dark has become easy, but doesn't seem to move us forward. Yesterday I received an email saying that she was uncomfortable at the art show with the D's & I. She felt the the D's felt the same way and that in the future the 4 of us shouldn't be together.
I interpreted it as her projecting her feelings onto the D's becuase I did not get that feeling from them, just from her.
I wrote back acknowledging that I perceived that she was uncomfortable and that I thought that we needed to put the D's interest first. I also stated that I am continuing counseling so that I could deal with my feelings about the situation as positively as possible.
Later, rather than email me about something else, she called me and was very upbeat.
Knowing that she said apathy played a major role in our marriage, going dark could be percieved as "more of the same". I feel like I need to walk that thread of a line between dark and pursuit.
I felt good about my reply and the result that I got. I just am stymied as to how to keep the communication going.
Yesterday I received an email saying that she was uncomfortable at the art show with the D's & I. She felt the the D's felt the same way and that in the future the 4 of us shouldn't be together.
I interpreted it as her projecting her feelings onto the D's
I think so too. Or she's just jostling for clout.
Going dark has become easy, but doesn't seem to move us forward... Knowing that she said apathy played a major role in our marriage, going dark could be percieved as "more of the same". I feel like I need to walk that thread of a line between dark and pursuit... I just am stymied as to how to keep the communication going.
Maybe more like dark, gray and light, rather than pursuit?
I had suggested going dark to give you guys a time out of sorts.
Back in March, I had confirmation that my WAW did not want me to go dark on her, so I thought if I did, she might pursue. Now, obviously, my purpose in going dark back then is not the same as why I suggested it to you, however, maybe my results of having gone dark may be useful to share with you.
I had also wondered if my going dark would be construed as "more of the same", in that I took her for granted in the last couple of years of our marriage.
When I resurfaced, her response was relief. She had thought I didn't want to hear from her anymore. That was far away from the message I was trying to send.
It confirmed for me that my observation about one of her love languages being "quality time" was going to be in opposition to my being dark, and isn't that exactly how she interpreted it in a sense? "You don't want to hear from me" being the message she got from my being dark, it being kind of an antithesis to "quality time".
So I decided to reverse course and step up contact.
All the same, that one month period where I went dark and she felt I didn't want to hear from her MAY have made her reflect on that she wants to hear from me. Maybe.
So, yes, we play all this by ear, judging our approach by results. Going dark is NOT an absolute, it needs personal modification and monitoring.
Back in March, I had confirmation that my WAW did not want me to go dark on her, so I thought if I did, she might pursue.
This is a good thought. I think that later on when there is interest, I could go semi-dark to see if she pursues as a way to measure her interest.
When I resurfaced, her response was relief. She had thought I didn't want to hear from her anymore.
Seems to be confirmation that there is interest!
It confirmed for me that my observation about one of her love languages being "quality time" was going to be in opposition to my being dark, and isn't that exactly how she interpreted it in a sense?
Very similar to my sitch and thoughts. Coaching WAW along with interest but not pursuit will require patience.
All the same, that one month period where I went dark and she felt I didn't want to hear from her MAY have made her reflect on that she wants to hear from me.
Interesting reversal here. I have to think that there must be a swirl of emotions and thoughts going on inside.
Today marks 6 months officially DB'ing and 5 months in the LRT. I know that the LRT is just supposed to slow down the negative inertia in our relationship and to a point, it has done that, but now I feel stuck at that point. There has been no action on the D papers, but WAW has shown no interest in me, my 180's, etc. I feel stuck at the bottom of the curve.
This past week, I just figured out that WAW & OM are basically living together. OM's mom & I are friends and she told me that he has moved to the same apt complex where WAW lives. Last week D15 was sick. I called WAW at 6:06AM to tell her and there was no answer. Called again at 6:25 still no answer. Called cell phone, she answered and I swear I heard a spoon hitting a cereal bowl, claimed she in the car on the way to work.
Tonight is D13's awards dinner. This will be the second school function dinner w/D&WAW in a week. Last Fri I perceived WAW as distant, uncomfortable, wishing she wasn't there. I "acted as if", focusing on D15's fun and friends. Tonight will be *MOST* difficult.
I am *so* frustrated, I want to kick OM in the pants (both in the back and the front). I want to have WAW CAT scanned to see which part of her mind is diseased so we can "fix" it. (Yeah, I know, I's feeling sorry for myself, giving power to WAW & OM, etc., but I gotta get it off my chest!)
DB'ing & LRT have changed me, but is not changing our sitch. It may have worked for the woman on the KLA tape, but after 5 months, it's just enabling WAW's lifestyle and made me a single parent. I love being a parent but, I WANNA BE A HUSBAND TOO! AAUUGGHH, I hate this! Ironically, I feel like LRT has become a cheeseless tunnel.
Need some help w/my PMA before dinner tonight!
Ok, I've got my mind back now (I think). I just had an idea for a 180. WAW said that she felt there was apathy in our marriage. I'm not perfect, but that is projection. I was the one reading books wanting to go to counseling, but she didn't. Dispelling the apathy myth will be difficult w/o pursuing. She was working on a special project at work, I'll ask about the project tonight to show interest in her w/o talking about us.
When I was reading through the passage in DR about the LRT, I noticed it didn't mention a time frame within which it would show its results, if any. Things take as long as things take. For some, it's less time than you, for others, much longer.
Your focus is apparent on the OM and on your perception of your WAW. Yet also minimize your WAW's perception of what was wrong in the marriage. I really do believe that these negative type of focuses influence how we act in our DBing, and sabotage or undermine our efforts unknowingly. In a way, it's just like a WAS who is in a EA with someone, and by being in that EA, is not emotionally available to working on the primary relationship, and so any efforts made on the WAS's part to work on the primary relationship is automatically doomed although the WAS believes that he has "given it his all" and "tried everything", when in fact, that's not really the case. So a LBS, who believes they've been DBing 100% but still having thoughts and feelings of a darker nature can't truly be DBing 100%, because if they were, they'd be helping themselves out of that mind set first of all.
My suggestion, Jabez, is to work more on thought control, change your perspectives, and give it more time. The OM being in the picture does make it more difficult to see progress, but progress can be attained despite the presence of OP.
I think the way you're going about "Dispelling the apathy" reality, not myth, it's a reality to your WAW, OK? is on target. In your convos with her, keep notes if you need to afterwards, of things she mentioned coming up in her life with which you can follow up later in time. It also makes good practice for sharpening listening skills. The opposite of apathy is caring and empathy... so work on becoming a more caring and empathic person, not just to her, but to the people and the world around you. Developing and growing those parts of you will, just as in the above examples given, become evident as they influence other things about you, and WAW will notice in time.
After reading you post, I realized that in email exchanges w/WAW when I found somthing to agree w/in her message, regardless of how flaming it was, the exchange either ended or changed tone or direction.
I need to keep thinking of things about her to talk about with her. Things that don't involve D13, D15 or R.
I'm not sure about the DB & DR books, but on the KLA tapes, the letter read is about a serparation that lasts only 4 weeks and Michelle mentions a 2-week timeframe to assess whether or not what you're doing is working.
NYS: I was reading Dr.Phil's Self Matters last night and I had the thought that the reason I have such a hard time w/some of the DB'ing ideas is that they go against my authentic self. One of my core values is integrity. First adultery is a sin against my WAW's integrity, and second, in my perception, to "accept" the adultery and try to "win my WAW back" also seems to contradict MY integrity and my authentic self.
I read a post of yours on another thread where you said something like
Quote: We shouldn't expect different behavior from WAS's because that's the way WAS's behave. If you were swimming with sharks you would expect them to act like sharks.
This is all true, it's just that I feel like I was invited to swim with the dolphins and then the shark came out of the dolphin's clothing.
