Thanks for the input. You both may be right about me just trying to validate H's feelings only. I'll try that and see how it works. I will probably even get a greater response from H. I'll update you both on the results.
I wanted to let you guys know that H told me, "You are just a really good human being." He told me this last week. He would have never told me this back in December. DBing is what has made me into a better human being. None of it is pretend either. It is the true me. At first, I was faking it, and eventually I did it long enough that it became the real me. That along with trying to be a better Christian has changed me so much. I try to be a better person in every interaction I have with every single person throughout the day. I read a lot on how to be a better Christian. This is one reason I am grateful for my addiction and recovery. Recovery kicked my spiritual growth into full speed. (I needed this because addiction stunts your emotional and spiritual growth as long as you are using. That is why drug addicts usually are very immature for their age.) I feel God is giving me a second chance at life and I am just so grateful to feel alive again that I love the struggles of every day life.
A huge light bulb moment with me was when I read that acting when you are emotional causes huge problems in your life and it is not what God wants you to do. I never got that I would have better control of my life if I waited to act after my emotions passed. Acting on emotions really messed up my life. I didn't realize that you shouldn't do that. Add to the mix that I was very emotional when I was using drugs and you have a living nightmare. I thought it was my right to say what I was feeling. Boy have I grown up so much. Practicing this new insight has changed my life. At first it was hard not to act on my emotions and after practicing it awhile, it is second nature to me. I now know that my emotions will pass and I will be able to make better decisions if I just wait it out. This was a biggy for me. You guys probably realized this. I never did and now that I do, it has changed my life.
I'll tell you another way I scored points with H. H and I got into an argument because H didn't tell me about something. You could say that he lied through omission. This really upset me because he always did this in our marriage. We got into an argument and pretty much made up in the same conversation. After I hung up the phone, I was thinking how I didn't know if I could live with H for the rest of my life if he was always going to lie by omission. Then I tried thinking the DBing way. What am I doing to cause this situation since I only have power over my own behavior?
I then had a light bulb moment. I realized that H lied by omission because he was afraid to tell me things. At first I was thinking if only he didn't lie then we wouldn't have any problems. I backed up one more step and realized that I must send some unspoken signal that H senses. I can act like a spoiled brat and without saying anything make demands so I get what I want each and every time. In the past I rarely put H's wants before my own.
I picked up the phone and left a message explaining what I had discovered about myself. H called me that day and explained that it was his fault not mine, and he had been the jerk not me. I have found that when I apologize H quickly tries to convince me that he is the jerk not me. This didn't happen right away, but now it happens every single time. It is like we have set up this new and better argument pattern. In the past, I would apologize some of the time as long as I wasn't the one to "always" have to apologize. I now realize that in all of our arguments, we are both right and we are both wrong. The benefit from this is that I can always do something productive to make our situation better. I have now changed the dynamic of our relationship and H is now beginning to take a look at how he can make changes in his own behavior to benefit us. Since I am more willing to look at my own faults, he is also more willing.
Can't you see how DBing and being a better Christian are similar in a lot of ways? Be forgiving. Look at your behavior instead of judging others. Be humble. Don't be prideful.
I told my counselor about my concerns with H and his recovery. I told her that I don't ask questions because I don't want make H uncomfortable. Counselor told me to ask H, "Can we talk about OUR recovery." I did this about a month ago and H told me no. I dropped the subject and didn't press any further. I asked again last week and H said yes. He said that he is not using pain pills but he is taking valium which he needs to quit because it is clouding his judgment. I just listened and validated his feelings. I did this same thing in recovery. It took me awhile to stop all drugs. The pain pills were my drug of choice and it was the hardest to stop. After you have used drugs to cope with problems for so long, it is extremely painful to feel. I started taking diet pills when I got upset, valium and Tylenol pm. A counselor I was seeing explained that I was doing that because I didn't want to feel. It looks like H is this stage in recovery. I hope he chooses a life with me instead of a life struggling to avoid feeling. As long as I make him choose between the drugs and having a relationship with me, I think he will choose a relationship with me. I am beginning to realize that he wants me in his life badly enough to truly want to stop. After our visit coming up very soon, I will stop all contact with him as long as he chooses the drugs. I have worked hard to be in the position I am in and I am not going to mess it all up by being codependent. I am strong enough to live my life without him if necessary, and I think I have to be this way if we ever stand a chance at a normal and healthy life together.
You can't look at how far I have come and not realize that God has been guiding me the entire time. I swear he has been at my side telling me exactly what I needed to do. I was a pathetic, mean, emotional drug addict with no self-esteem one year ago and now I am an inspiration to my H and so very proud of myself.
I wanted to ask if you guys ever thought that maybe our WAW spouses did a 180 (without realizing it) by leaving. I think I had become so self-centered and close minded that I would have never changed if H hadn't left. I truly feel that he did me a favor by filing for divorce. What do you all think?
Wanted to add that when I was talking to H last night he was depressed because of the situation with his brother. I tried to cheer him up by explaining that he is a good son, brother and friend. I told him that he is very generous and always there for his siblings, his mom, his dad and friends. I added that he also has stood by my side through good and bad times. He corrected me and told me that I was the one that has always stood by his side no matter what. I think he is becoming convinced that the changes in me are sincere and permanent. Also, he realizes that it is going to be difficult to find another person that is as committed to him as I have proved to be.
Sam you have such a positive attitude. Reading your post inspires me to do more, do better. Thanks.
My W never lied or lied by omission. She went directly to just not talking about certain things. I know now that she was so concerned about how I judged her every move. Even after we are divorced she is concerned about me judging her.
I don't see the divorce as a 180, because I dont believe she ever intended to revoke a positive response in me. I believe she just wanted out of a relationship she was unhappy with. I do believe it took the act of divorce to get me to pull my head out. Actually, I think the threat of divorce would have done the trick, but I wont go there at this time! I actually thanked my W for taking a stand, and told her that if all this had not happened I probably would never have changed. I feel so much wiser now. Wiser about life, whats important in life and relationships. XW even said that she felt that the next relationship I'm in will be a very healthy one (still not sure what that means).
God has presented us with a challenge, a challenge he knows we can handle, a challenge he knows will make us stronger. I believe this whole-heartedly.
Keep on validating and being there for him. Your doing great.
I know I have dissappeared. Wanted to give everyone a quick update on my situation and get a little advice. I can't even get online now. I am at my sister's again.
This weekend is the weekend I will be in the same town as H. His mother is helping me write an essay for a professional program I am hoping to attend. She is a great writer and always eager to help with things like this.
I have worked really hard at looking good, and I look really, really great. I am so excited. H and I both gained weight because of the drug use, and I have now lost all the weight I had gained. I just can't believe it. I feel so great!
H and I made plans to see each other and things had been really, really great. Of course, the elephant in the closet still exists (drugs). About two weeks ago, H started to tell me about being sick again, not being able to sleep and losing weight as the trip got closer and closer. It was obvious that he was informing me that he had relapsed and was trying to detox again before I saw him. So annoying! Both me and my counselor are both confused on what I should do to not be an enabler. In the past, he would cut me off if I started asking questions. We decided that I take it one day at a time and made plans to just wait until the trip so H could see what he is missing in life. We decided I should put down some tough boundaries after the trip and pretty much cut him off altogether.
H has been telling me constantly that he wants to marry me, I am a the best person he has ever known and that everyone misses me incuding him, our pets and his family.
Things have gotton messed up. Here is the situation.
H called me Sat night. We spoke for about 30 minutes and then the subject came up about which school I would attend. I know you all may say that what happened next was not good DBing but I don't care because I am fed up with this whole situation. He responded that he hoped I would go to the school that is closest to him. What! Close to him is an hour and a half away. Also, school won't start for a year and a half. I have already been separated from him for a year and a half. I am getting old and want children. It is like he doesn't want me, but doesn't want anyone else to have me either. I am sick and tired of living in limbo. I am not going to chose the school so I can simply be close to him.
I told him that what he said bothered me. I added that in a year and a half I expect to be married or nearly married to him or someone else. He shot back that I read to much into everything that he says. He added fine go marry someone else......go marry someone else.......go marry someone else and then he hung up on me. ohhhhhhhhhh!
I think my DBing has shown him that he made a mistake, however; I think it is prolonging his addiction. He hasn't called and apologized either. My trip happens in three days. It has been two nights now. I have thought and thought about it, and I don't think I should call him. He rudely hung up on me. I have read tons of books on what to do with men who keep the women waiting forever, and they say not to call.
I can totally see how I could have avoided this whole situation, but I think it is time for things to come to a head. I just wish it could have happened after he sees me. I almost think he did it on purpose because he doesn't want me to see him. He probably still looks like crap and knows I will know he is still using. He probably still has that bloated drug look (like Elvis who used the same type of drugs as us).
Guys, I think I should stick to my guns. It will also send a clear message that I am running out of patience when I come into town and see his mother but not him. I don't see any other way out of it. Calling him will just make me seem like I want him back whether he is on drugs or not. Also, his mother will see me and inform him of what he is missing. What should I do?
I just wanted to add that if my trip wasn't coming up this weekend, I wouldn't even be wondering if I should call H. I would know that not calling H is the right thing to do. I just want him to see me!
I also looked back at my previous posts and figured out when, why and how H apologized in the past. The last three arguements he has apologized and insisted that he was at fault. The first time, he apologized after I gave a long apology, the second time he apologized after I took half responsibility and the third time he apologized when I took even less responsibility. Should I apologize for what I did wrong in this arguement or wait for him to call? I am so positive that he sees me as a great person. I am also positive that he knows what he is doing to me is selfish. This stuff is so hard.
Quote: I can totally see how I could have avoided this whole situation, but I think it is time for things to come to a head. I just wish it could have happened after he sees me. I almost think he did it on purpose because he doesn't want me to see him. He probably still looks like crap and knows I will know he is still using. He probably still has that bloated drug look (like Elvis who used the same type of drugs as us).
You are doing a whole lot of mind reading here and reading a lot into what he says. If you suspect he's playing some kind of game with you or just stringing you along you need to ask. "It feels to me that you just want me around as a possibility. Is that true? I've been wondering if you have started this just so I won't see you. Is there any truth to that?" Don't read his mind and don't make assumptions based on worst case scenario. You also sound like you are letting some resentments creep in. Good DBing doesn't involve a lot of "forcing things to a head". That seems to backfire quite a bit. It depends on whether your usual approach was to bring things to a head or not.
That being said I can understand your frustration. You do need to stick to your guns about the school and about wanting him to be clean before you do anything with him. I just don't know if it hurts for him not to see you. You have the opportunity to meet with him and if he is clearly still doing drugs or the interaction is otherwise unacceptable you can show how strong you are by walking away. Then go dark until he shapes up. Just my .02
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I know you are so right. Why didn't I just keep my big mouth shut. My patience is the pits a lot of times. My big mouth gets me in trouble all of the time. I know I am very lucky in my situation for a few reasons. I can be so very bad at DBing yet H still sticks around. I guess in a way I should be grateful for the codependency that he has on me because in a sick way that is the glue holding us together.
Now how do I get out of this situation so I can see him. Should I call and apologize? Should I just say that I have no expectations about us and our reconciliation and that I just want to see him. Oh it scares me. What if he tells me to get lost... What should I do? Should I just wait until I am in town and pop in? He may think that is psycho. When we argue, he usually gets over it really quick even when I am completely in the wrong. Also, if I can apologize just right, he usually melts and is apologizing to me. I don't know what to do.
You can call me Wes if that's easier, which it likely is.
So you have 3 days left and he knows it? I would wait then. I think he'll call. He threw a fit with the marry someone else and hang up stuff. He'll apologize. It would definitely be a positive if he calls you up to be sure you visit. I wouldn't call groveling just yet. Remember what you wrote earlier in this very thread....don't let your emotions run you. If he hasn't called before you go then just call him and ask him straight out if he wants to get together. Don't apologize...don't grovel...don't be mad...don't whine. Just ask in a friendly and happy fashion. If he says "NO" then without missing a beat say "OKay. Talk to you later." and then just end the convo. That's my take on it.
Just an FYI...might not apply to most guys. Get some of these other guys opinions...but for me if the argument was stupid or childish or was just a brief angry outburst from either one of us...I'd just prefer that the next time I talked that it was all forgotten. NO apologies or anything...just back to normal. That doesn't apply to big major hairy deals, but these little emotional outbursts tend to be forgotten by me and I suspect most men. So forgo apologies and just "act as if" nothing happened and see how that goes.
Wes
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Hello Sam, Its great to hear from you. What type of professional program are you hoping to attend? I am glad that you are looking at yourself in a positive light. I'm glad you are feeling great! Keep focusing on the positive things in your life.
Now for the heavy stuff: I dont think you said anything that you should apologize for. Mentioning being married to someone else was a no-no, but apologizing is up to you. Was what you said really that bad or did he over react? I need you to refresh my memory, what your original goal of your get together this weekend?
